Post-college planning and advice

I'd thought I'd make a new thread building off my first thread about finishing up college. This one is less "Im almost done!" and more along the lines of "What comes next." First thread is here.

For those of you who do not know, I am a graduating senior in mechanical engineering at the University of Illinois. In addition to talking to professors and the university career center, I would like to reach out to the GRM community for advice and wisdom. In particular I would like to tap into the (mechanical) engineers we have one this board, to talk about their different experiences as engineers. Even in my limited experience mechanical engineering can take you in many different directions and the types of jobs are very varied. How do field work, manufacturing, design, validation all compare to each other.

I know there are some people who have worked overseas, how was that? What is the best way to try and break into that? I have a EU citizenship as well as US so I have flexibility.

Also some of what I am looking for is whether anyone would be willing to review my resume and give me advice/suggestions on how to improve it. Particularly from a recruiters point of view. If there are any members on this board who do on campus recruiting and the interviews, I would especially like your opinions. Also I've never had to write a cover letter for the internships and jobs I have received, so if you have read through applicants cover letters, what do you look for?

I would prefer to carry out the resume discussions out through email because I don't think many of you want the board cluttered with that. If you are willing to talk about my resume (or would like to see it, maybe send it to your boss ) just let me know and Ill PM you.

Do you think there is any harm in just posting an image of the resume up on the page? For some reason, it doesn't seem like a great idea.

And one last point is that I will be graduating debt free thanks several factors. One option also discussed was graduate school. A professor I talked to said my GPA is good enough that I should be able to get a fellowship from some of the top engineering schools in the country (Michigan, Illinois, MIT, etc) Graduate school hasn't been something that has been really foremost in my mind but maybe if it is paid for it becomes worth it?

PMed.

I don't think there'd be an issue with posting your resume in a thread like this, as an image, but with certain things redacted like name, phone, email address.

fritzsch wrote: I know there are some people who have worked overseas, how was that? What is the best way to try and break into that? I have a EU citizenship as well as US so I have flexibility.

If you want to work and live in Europe, the important question is also which of the local languages you speak. While you can, say, work for Mercedes in Germany speaking only English, this is going to make day-to-day life harder than necessary.

If you already have the right to work there with your citizenship, I'd check out what's necessary to apply for jobs there (the resume/CV format is basically different for every country) and just start applying. In most EU countries, you're not expected to show up for an interview the next day like you are in the US, so while this strategy doesn't necessarily work the other way it'll help you gauge interest and you should be able to bundle a bunch of in-person interviews if/when you fly over.

fritzsch wrote: And one last point is that I will be graduating debt free thanks several factors. One option also discussed was graduate school. A professor I talked to said my GPA is good enough that I should be able to get a fellowship from some of the top engineering schools in the country (Michigan, Illinois, MIT, etc) Graduate school hasn't been something that has been really foremost in my mind but maybe if it is paid for it becomes worth it?

I would say that if you have the mind for it (and it sounds like you do) and you can get a mostly free ride, I'd suggest staying out of the workforce a bit longer. Higher level degrees make it easier to break into labor markets everywhere and if you have your eyes set on working in Germany or Austria, you will find it may make it possible - they really don't like bachelor degrees that much in either country, even though that's what you get there these days, too.

BoxheadTim wrote: If you want to work and live in Europe, the important question is also which of the local languages you speak. While you can, say, work for Mercedes in Germany speaking only English, this is going to make day-to-day life harder than necessary.

I know some German, enough to do very basic things. I wouldn't be able to go to the government office though. But my impression was that German companies, especially hiring in technical fields, provide german language lessons becuase they are hiring from all over Europe. Either way, I would have a step up from most non-german speakers since I know some already.

BoxheadTim wrote: I would say that if you have the mind for it (and it sounds like you do) *and* you can get a mostly free ride, I'd suggest staying out of the workforce a bit longer. Higher level degrees make it easier to break into labor markets everywhere and if you have your eyes set on working in Germany or Austria, you will find it may make it possible - they really don't like bachelor degrees that much in either country, even though that's what you get there these days, too.

I have also noticed in some basic job searching that Europe definitely prefers masters so that is a selling point. I thought a little about graduate school in europe since it would be free in most places but I think that if I ever wanted to work in USA it would be much better to have a degree from an American institution.

What are your interests?

For instance, there area a lot of aerospace opportunities in the Seattle area:

http://www.spacex.com/careers/position/5872

http://jobs-boeing.com/washington-jobs/job-list-1

if you can go graduate school.. do it.

I have an BS Eng and MBA.. I feel outgunnded by those with a BS eng MS eng and MBa(yes there are plenty of them out there).

What might be really cool is to work on a Master's degree in a European country that you might have interest in living in. I think it would help you get traction in working there after you graduate and it might be a good way to show flexibility and working internationally. I don't work in HR so I don't know what kind of water that holds with those folks so grain of salt but it seems pretty slam dunk to me.

Good idea http://lmgtfy.com/?q=how+to+get+a+graduate+degree+in+euope

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: if you can go graduate school.. do it. I have an BS Eng and MBA.. I feel outgunnded by those with a BS eng MS eng and MBa(yes there are plenty of them out there).

If you have the end goal of europe, you might as well learn german quickly and do your masters there. My friend's masters was approx 1000 euro per semester while getting paid to tutor english in Hanover. Screw the $25k you'd throw down the tube here in the US for a masters.

I can tell you from being a hiring manager and looking at many resumes, most of them are horrible. (no offense to anyone here)I'm looking at one in my inbox right now of someone who is probably a really smart person and has a lot of certifications but is so bad at selling himself that if it weren't an internally recommended candidate I would never call him back.

Some of the most common mistakes I see are people just itemizing out what their job responsibilities were at that job. I can look at the job title and usually have a decent idea what you do on a day to day basis.

What I want to know is what can you give me as an employee that the 20 other resumes that I read can not. Tell me that story. Tell me how you saved the company millions in labor costs, closed that big deal and won a huge contract, or process engineered a new procedure that caused a 12% reduction in operating wastes.

Keep the information relevant for the position you are applying for too. If you want a project coordination position, don't tell me how you closed the $2.5M contract. Tell me the steps you did to ensure that contract was fulfilled properly and on time.

Basically, the resume should be the first chapter of the story on how I, as your employee, will make your life easier as a boss and your company more profitable. You then tell the rest of the narrative in your interviews that follow.

bmw88rider wrote: What I want to know is what can you give me as an employee that the 20 other resumes that I read can not. Tell me that story. Tell me how you saved the company millions in labor costs, closed that big deal and won a huge contract, or process engineered a new procedure that caused a 12% reduction in operating wastes.

The problem is, what I view as an important skill or past experience you may not. My being able to operate and do analysis in Smallworld, ESRI, Q-GIS, and FME environments might mean nothing to you, but to someone who does that kind of stuff, they might think its a valuable skill.

The problem is that sometimes those people who understand those accomplishments may not be on ones in charge of sorting through the applicants.

In the case of the resumes in question, are you the one doing the hiring, or are you an HR person?

Our OP doesn't have any of those typical "attention getting" accomplishments, he's just a got a degree and some technical skills.

yamaha wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: if you can go graduate school.. do it. I have an BS Eng and MBA.. I feel outgunnded by those with a BS eng MS eng and MBa(yes there are plenty of them out there).

If you have the end goal of europe, you might as well learn german quickly and do your masters there. My friend's masters was approx 1000 euro per semester while getting paid to tutor english in Hanover. Screw the $25k you'd throw down the tube here in the US for a masters.

The thing about that is most companies in the USA have no knowledge of European universities, even if they are good ones. The exception might be Oxford or some of the other english ones. So someone with a MSc from Michigan will be placed higher than someone from Rotterdam or something. I don't think it is a deal breaker but it is definitely not negligible from what I have heard.

PHeller wrote: Our OP doesn't have any of those typical "attention getting" accomplishments, he's just a got a degree and some technical skills.

Right, I am looking at entry level stuff. I have worked several internships and jobs but I haven't been in charge of multimillion dollar projects. And I don't think my competition has either.

I'm the one doing the hiring.

Certifications/Skills definitely have their place in the resume. They should be included the section with the education. Typically, any special skill/application I need is spelled out in the job description anyways. That is the check mark in the box.

I'm going to ask you questions through the interview process to affirm that you have that skill set. I've caught people stretching the truth on that before and flushed them out through the conversation in the interview.

So after I have 10-15 candidates that have all of the check marks in the box, It's a matter of catching my attention from there. That is where I want to tell me the story. Wet my appetite. Make me interested in what you have to say.

A resume is your marketing slick to employers. It's all about sales....Sell me on why I need to have you.

For new to the workforce hires, It doesn't have to be a job. Tell me about a club you were active in, Volunteer work you did, an internship you did. I have a volunteer position on my resume even today because it gave me very valuable skills.

In reply to bmw88rider:

Would you mind taking a look at my resume?

fritzsch wrote:

yamaha wrote:

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: if you can go graduate school.. do it. I have an BS Eng and MBA.. I feel outgunnded by those with a BS eng MS eng and MBa(yes there are plenty of them out there).

If you have the end goal of europe, you might as well learn german quickly and do your masters there. My friend's masters was approx 1000 euro per semester while getting paid to tutor english in Hanover. Screw the $25k you'd throw down the tube here in the US for a masters.

The thing about that is most companies in the USA have no knowledge of European universities, even if they are good ones. The exception might be Oxford or some of the other english ones. So someone with a MSc from Michigan will be placed higher than someone from Rotterdam or something. I don't think it is a deal breaker but it is definitely not negligible from what I have heard.

Is your goal to work in europe or the US? Make this decision first then chose. If US, go US skill and hope for an expat package later (good luck, they are tough to get) If Not US, go to school aboard.

Be happy to. Shoot me a PM.

In reply to PHeller and bmw88rider:

PM Sent

If you can go to grad school cheaply - do it

Story time!
My wife works with one car guy. He has an ME degree. Used to work for Ford. Did work with interior door panels or something similar. Spent five years doing this. Realized one day that his love of cars had him working for a car company where he never really did anything with cars. He could have been designing lamps or laundry baskets and had about as much involvement. Not only that, but engineers at car companies were consistently on the lower end of the engineer pay scale which meant that he couldn't afford to play with the cars he liked.
His solution? Jumped to the oil industry in Production Engineering. He is paid a bit over triple what his auto pay was, works in a job that is more interesting, and can afford to play with cars.
Moral? Sometimes the best way to work with cars is to not work with cars at all. Keep your eyes peeled for good fields. Maybe it's oil (though maybe not now) maybe it's medical imaging, maybe it's farm equipment, maybe aerospace.

ME / Aerospace here.

I did not go to graduate school, and it would not have helped me land my first job nor advance in it (still here 12yrs later). I would get a small raise if I did complete the likely 4yrs of part time schooling, and my company would pay for it. I am in a mechanical design/lead role.

I would suggest an MS if you are wanting to be on the analytical side: structures, fluid mechanics, etc. MBA can wait, and get paid for by your company if you lean towards management/leadership.

Many US companies are happy to have people willing to relocate to Europe (or many less desirable places). Mine offers 2yr transfers.

In reply to mazdeuce:

AGCO is probably a very good place to look on the agricultural equipment side.....because unlike the others, they are a massive world conglomerate.

bmw88rider wrote: I can tell you from being a hiring manager and looking at many resumes, most of them are horrible. (no offense to anyone here)I'm looking at one in my inbox right now of someone who is probably a really smart person and has a lot of certifications but is so bad at selling himself that if it weren't an internally recommended candidate I would never call him back. Some of the most common mistakes I see are people just itemizing out what their job responsibilities were at that job. I can look at the job title and usually have a decent idea what you do on a day to day basis. What I want to know is what can you give me as an employee that the 20 other resumes that I read can not. Tell me that story. Tell me how you saved the company millions in labor costs, closed that big deal and won a huge contract, or process engineered a new procedure that caused a 12% reduction in operating wastes. Keep the information relevant for the position you are applying for too. If you want a project coordination position, don't tell me how you closed the $2.5M contract. Tell me the steps you did to ensure that contract was fulfilled properly and on time. Basically, the resume should be the first chapter of the story on how I, as your employee, will make your life easier as a boss and your company more profitable. You then tell the rest of the narrative in your interviews that follow.

So a resume is a personal ad more than a list of information? I need tips for getting a better job too.