jharry3 said:Maybe there are agent provocateurs in the crowd sent by rogue government agencies to start violence so the peaceful protest permit is revoked.
or hells angels/arayan cowboys..https://www.foxnews.com/us/minneapolis-umbrella-man-autozone-fire-hells-angels-police and pretty much sped up the clock on the ticking time bomb that destroyed this city.
Boost_Crazy said:The problem is that many otherwise peaceful protesters cheer the bad behavior. Many, who now in my opinion have lost peaceful protester status, obstruct the police from arresting the attacker. While I don’t doubt that there are some agitators, who are cowards and scum in my book for trying to silence others through deception, the vast majority are sympathizers or opportunists that don’t care either way but enjoy the chaos. It really doesn’t matter their motivation. Peaceful protesters are foolish to not only allow, but to promote the behavior. If peaceful protesters stop supporting the behavior, it goes away. Your example of opposing agitators strengthens my point. Why would the crowd fall into their trap and make themselves look bad? Do you think the violence and chaos is winning over any more support to the cause?
The same can largely be said of the police. Police officers who are unwilling to call out and attack (rather than remaining silent or even defending) 'bad cop' actions, from the individual level up through entire units or departments, lose their 'good cop' status in my opinion. If good cops stop overlooking, enabling, and protecting bad cop behavior, the problem goes away.
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Boost_Crazy said:As for the police or government being the instigator? I’m sure it happens, and that sucks, and should be reported, investigated, and remedied legally. But be honest, what are the numbers- 1 out of 100, 1 out of a 1000? How many times has an officer done nothing in return after being hit with a rock, brick, explosive, spit, urine, you name it- for every unprovoked attack on a civilian?
You're right about the police at an individual level, that in many difficult situations most hold their composure incredibly well...Far better than I could. However, I disagree that individual actions are the only (or even primary) instigation that is occurring from the police and government. Intentional or not, many of the general tactics being deployed at protests in cities all across this country are functionally doing little more than (often severely) escalating and provoking the situation.
There is a choice to be made right now. To be a part of the problem, or to be a part of the solution. The first place to look for something to change, if one genuinely wants to be a part of the solution, is in the mirror. This applies to law enforcement and government agencies every bit as much as it does individuals.
In reply to cabbagecop :
Yep. Lasers damage eyes, and it's insidious because you can get vision loss, but your brain will fill in the blind spots and you think that nothing happened.
That said, if somebody beamed a laser at me, I don't think any jury would consider my actions those "of a reasonable person" if I pulled out a rifle and shot them in the face for doing it.
jharry3 said:I don't disagree with your statement but its comparing your apples to my oranges. Stopping fights is not arrest free. The fighters probably did break laws. But I have first hand knowledge of LEO's who have goaded people "who looked at them wrong" into a fight and then beat the crap out of them. Some during a lawful arrest because the perp "pissed them off" and some just "because". LEO's who I knew and who bragged about doing it with their partner sitting right there grinning and nodding about it how they did it. It was "safe" to tell me since I was a reserve deputy at the time. LEO's like that were the reason I quit. Recourse attempted would have resulted in the infamous "static on the radio" trick..
Most LEO are good professionals, IMO, caveat is I don't like their speed tax collector role. But that tiny percentage of bad ones are really bad and have lots of rules & laws to protect them if the wagons are circled.
Fair enough- I was taking the thought one step further. To bring it more in line with what you're saying: Not only do police not have a duty to protect you, but there are a few out there who are violent and sociopathic, and they'll be protected by their departments, so that even the good cops are dragged into complicity.
Steve_Jones said:she's not at "point blank" range
That's point blank range. No sight picture adjustment will be required to hit a target that close.
Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:I won't flounder the thread too much but I can say that in a state that us very gun friendly...the police are much more cautious and excerise much more self control plus there's very little gun violence.
Not to flounder either... But that is a pretty sad thing. The police should be exercising the same self control and caution for EVERYONE.
You are definitely right.
All I can say is up here,police are used to people with guns. I see multiple people everyday carrying guns since you can legally carry almost everywhere without a permit as long as you can legally own a gun. Having a gun doesn't equal violence too, and that's a culture that a lot of the rest of the world doesn't have.
As a white man who has legally carried guns, I've always found that quite troubling. Whenever an unarmed POC is killed by police, it seems some people try to deflect by saying things like "they thought he had a gun" or the even more troubling "he could have had a gun". This is the USA, it's entirely legal to have a gun and your life is not forfeit for having one... Even if some of these people HAD a gun, it would still have been an egregious violation to gun them down. Very troubling.
WilD said:As a white man who has legally carried guns, I've always found that quite troubling. Whenever an unarmed POC is killed by police, it seems some people try to deflect by saying things like "they thought he had a gun" or the even more troubling "he could have had a gun". This is the USA, it's entirely legal to have a gun and your life is not forfeit for having one... Even if some of these people HAD a gun, it would still have been an egregious violation to gun them down. Very troubling.
Then when a POC has a legal gun and is shot those same people say well they shouldn't have had a gun.
93EXCivic said:WilD said:As a white man who has legally carried guns, I've always found that quite troubling. Whenever an unarmed POC is killed by police, it seems some people try to deflect by saying things like "they thought he had a gun" or the even more troubling "he could have had a gun". This is the USA, it's entirely legal to have a gun and your life is not forfeit for having one... Even if some of these people HAD a gun, it would still have been an egregious violation to gun them down. Very troubling.
Then when a POC has a legal gun and is shot those same people say well they shouldn't have had a gun.
Or when the legally armed POC is the literal 'good guy with a gun'...And they remain deadly silent.
WilD said:As a white man who has legally carried guns, I've always found that quite troubling. Whenever an unarmed POC is killed by police, it seems some people try to deflect by saying things like "they thought he had a gun" or the even more troubling "he could have had a gun". This is the USA, it's entirely legal to have a gun and your life is not forfeit for having one... Even if some of these people HAD a gun, it would still have been an egregious violation to gun them down. Very troubling.
You can't legally carry a gun in a lot of places... here in Maryland for instance, where we certainly have a gun violence problem, pretty much the only way to have a concealed carry permit is if you're armed security. Basically nobody on the street should have one.
I DO NOT DISAGREE WITH YOUR STATEMENT THOUGH.
Its interesting that as soon as the federal troops were removed the protests went peaceful.
In reply to Mr_Asa :
Scroll down farther into the story and you also see this...
“Some in the crowd worked to avoid trouble by stopping demonstrators from lighting fires and shooting fireworks at the courthouse as they had done on previous nights.
Dan Thomas, an African American man, stood in the street shouting at people not to cause a confrontation with the state police.“
It looks like someone was reading my posts.
So we are allowed to be political here as long as we are on a certain side? This thread would be considered way over the line if certain people were typing the same comments as others posted here. I know you have your favorites and such, but it's getting old.
Steve_Jones said:So we are allowed to be political here as long as we are on a certain side? This thread would be considered way over the line if certain people were typing the same comments as others posted here. I know you have your favorites and such, but it's getting old.
I don't see much politics in here at all...
mtn (Forum Supporter) said:Steve_Jones said:So we are allowed to be political here as long as we are on a certain side? This thread would be considered way over the line if certain people were typing the same comments as others posted here. I know you have your favorites and such, but it's getting old.
I don't see much politics in here at all...
It's not political. Just grownups talking about a complicated issue respectfully even though we dont all have the same views on everything. Like my dad always said, "Be quiet and listen, you might learn something."
In reply to Driven5 :
The problem with expecting that cops stand up for what is right and make sure that fellow cops that break the law are reported is that virtually every time that happens the "good" cop is drummed out of the department while the bad cop has nothing happen to them.
At that point it isnt a thing for good cops to do, its something that city officials need to do about that police force.
Edit: the tagline is generally "good cops get fired" if you want to search for articles
In reply to WilD :
The culture I'm talking about is something very foreign to most, which I think is sad.
As an example: in Couer D Alene to prevent rioting many armed citizens showed up around downtown. There was a huge knashing of teeth about how these people were super dangerous and how crazy it is. Several people commented about how there was gonna be a lot of shootings.
There wasn't any shooting or violence though.
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