Racing Budget Blah Blah Blah

This is motorsports related but it's also financial, personal, and probably more mental health related than I'd like to admit so I'm putting it in off-topic.  You probably won't enjoy reading if you don't want to hear about dumb first world amateur racing problems.

I've been racing in some form or another since I was 16 and could forge my parents' signature on the consent forms for autocrosses.  Every time I've had the budget, I've "moved up" in some way, or gotten bored and "moved over" instead if the budget wasn't there yet.  Autocross to rallycross to LeMons to FSAE to RallyMoto to, currently, Stage Rally, it has been a continuous progression of doing the biggest and most intense thing I can afford.  The rest of my cost of living has stayed mostly the same since college, always pinching pennies where reasonable and having a challenge priced daily driver.  Somehow through all of this I've managed to keep a pretty consistent "I'm doing more/harder racing than I think I should be able to" and that became my "normal."

Now I'm married and we have a house.  This doesn't necessarily mean I can't afford to rally the car, but it does make me look at what it costs and think to myself "this is a very irresponsible way to use this money when it only represents a couple weekends of fun."  I can maintain a level of savings I'm comfortable with and do 2-3 events per year provided one is cheaper (like a sprint instead of a full rally) and the car doesn't break too badly, but that isn't honestly as much racing as I'd like to be doing when I'm no longer impressed by just managing to make it to the end of a rally, and motorcycle racing is calling to me again- for about half the budget, I could be running upwards of 10 events per year across a couple of different disciplines, and I'm not great on two wheels so it would take a while to get bored hopefully.

My better half is 100% good with continuing to do the stage rally thing at that frequency with those savings numbers, which is awesome and I'm lucky to have that level of support, but I'm incapable of leaving anything alone so I'm always looking at alternatives.  She's also the codriver and therefore understandably biased  and I'd be lying if I pretended that wasn't a really good reason to keep at the stage rally thing- it's just not the same if she has to be on the sidelines.

This is mostly me venting about a problem I made up inside my own head, but I'll include options below of what I'm thinking for potential alternative plans.

A) Keep running the car in 1-2 rallies + a sprint per year and find a cheap/free way to be OK with that (ie keep myself from being bored).  Maybe this means volunteering or crewing at more rallies when not competing, or getting more serious about one of my other hobbies which won't eat significant money in between events, or just calming the berkeley down and not needing to feel like I'm pushing the limit of what I should be able to do all the time.

B) Cut into the rally budget by running the car in other events- hillclimb sticks out as a good choice here.  This gives the car more of a purpose and keeps me from feeling like it's a big expensive thing that sits around for no reason in between rallies.

C) Cut into the rally budget by diversifying my racing efforts with a different vehicle- this would mean a challenge car, racing a motorcycle, or some other project/race vehicle.  Again, this is just to keep me from being dissatisfied with the racing I'm doing.

D) Find a way to increase the rally budget- this means finding a way to get sponsors or starting a side business most likely.  I could also cut down on other projects/vehicles (I don't really have the huge collection of some of you guys, and what I do have is cheap!) to try to save more, or try to get a job that pays better, but I don't see a ton of opportunity for improvement in either of those places.

E) Do something else entirely- race bikes, dedicated hillclimb car, spend a few years building a really loony race vehicle for something, etc.

TLDR:  I picked an expensive form of racing and therefore can't do it a lot, so I'm E36 M3ting out words to see if it helps me avoid going (more) insane, being bored, or feeling like I'm half-assing it.

What about getting into Karts, and have the missus race with you as well?

In reply to the_machina :

She doesn't have much interest in race driving, much more in motorcycles actually- so it's more likely that we could both compete on two wheels if we were to go that route.

May I ask how much an event costs?

Maybe do 1 less event and add 2 or 3 other things (like rally cross / hill climbs / AER races).

¯\_(ツ)_/¯ said:

 

B) Cut into the rally budget by running the car in other events- hillclimb sticks out as a good choice here.  This gives the car more of a purpose and keeps me from feeling like it's a big expensive thing that sits around for no reason in between rallies.

It is a big expensive thing that sits around for no reason between rallies. You could run it 20 weekends a year and between those weekends it would still be a big expensive toy. Either you're ok with that or your aren't. I've also struggled with this and decided to make sure that my play car is also a car that I can drive the kids to school in. That's all the mental justification I need. This prevents me from building a rally car or a proper race car, but I've had those around and I can never quite handle it. 

Interestingly I'm also looking heavily at motorcycles. I'm going to to watch a Texas MiniGP race in a couple of weekends. From what I can tell, I can get a bike and leathers for maybe $3k and from there race weekends are about the same cost as autocross. That's justification, the reality is that it's new and exciting and I thrive on new and exciting. 

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Realistically, $2-3k after entry fees, lodging, fuel, tires, for a full on rally.  Single day events or sprints can cut that by close to half, obviously breaking the car increases it.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I did not need to see that. You are a bad bad man.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I raced a TTR125 in MiniGP for a season- it's awesome, you'll like it.

I think part of my issue is the rally car is really two cars that sit around right now, maybe getting the parts car fully stripped and parted out would help.  I tend to have trouble with things sitting around regardless, so reducing the amount of not-immediately-useful stuff associated with the car might help- the organized spares boxes, and stuff on shelves, doesn't bother me nearly as much as the parts cluttered in/on the parts car, for example.  Getting the tire collection better organized would probably help too.  This sort of stuff might make the big expensive thing feel more like it's waiting for the next bout of awesomeness, not just sitting and collecting junk.

EDIT:  This is not a problem exclusive to race cars.  Every winter, at some point I start thinking about selling my Buell, planning replacements for it, just because it goes a few weeks between rides during the really cold part of the year.  Every spring I stop seriously considering selling it once I am riding it regularly again... you'd think I would learn, but evidence suggests otherwise.  Doesn't stop it from bothering me, though.

This happens to a lot of rally folks. I did A for a number of years, its ok. I found that the rally car was fun for autox and really had everything organized to the point of putting tires and a bunch of cases into the van and going. At this point I am doing E, building a locost, which has been great so far and who knows what that will get used for. I also try to find time for mountain biking which does scratch the rally itch. Kids (if that's ur thing) are a big time suck but it's 1000% worth it. Will do rally again cause there isn't anything quite like it.

I wouldn't do C as splitting efforts generally means that neither get the attention that they need or deserve.

In reply to HFmaxi :

It's good to know this is a common issue with rally people.  I have been trying to get out on the mountain bike for at least 5 hours every weekend, it does help and it's always nice to have trees whizzing by (it's like a tiny rally stage!), but it's also easy to feel like the time was wasted when there are vehicles to work on.  No kids, don't want any, but lots of animals so time gets spent there.

I vote hill climb.  For the most part, the series wouldn't require a lot of travel expense for you.  Especially if you stick to the events relatively close and we are fortunate to have an established series pretty close to us.

Next event in PA is only a few weeks from now  

The events are so grassroots in feel, they make a Lemons race look professional.  

Whatever you do make sure the misses wants to participate - I would love to have my wife interested in motorsports. 

I vote that you increase your play budget by parting cars on the side. You have the space. Put up some heavy shelves, buy something with parts demand on eBay, and start tearing E36 M3 up! Two well bought cars a year would fund your racing pretty well...

In reply to Ian F :

That is a real possibility, the main thing stopping me is the need for a good set of tires for it- which I'll buy if that becomes the only barrier.  Have to get the stupid turbo to stop leaking first.

In reply to dculberson :

I have considered that, as well as fixing up previously wrecked cars (or motorcycles) and flipping them.  Both are things that I need to convince myself I have the patience for.

Nick Comstock said:

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I did not need to see that. You are a bad bad man.

So...... you stay in the Grosh for the Houston rounds and I stay at your place for the Dallas rounds and we both make terrible decisions? 

Back to the original question, I present a thought exercise: if you got home from work today to find that the garage had burned to the ground, would you buy another rally car?

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

I would build one, starting from a shell, over the next couple of years.  I probably would not run out and buy another one prepped by somebody else.

This is assuming the insurance actually paid out for everything, if not I'd really be in trouble so it would probably be the end of any serious racing for a while.

look at doing some track days in the mean time or rally cross for very cheap in the mean time or failing that sell everything and partner into running champ car or lemons more offend if nothing else and more seat time.

I really enjoy arrive and drive races with Lemons and other such series. $500 for super E36 M3ty cars up to $1300 for amazing cars gets you a weekend of track time (typically around 4-5 hours actual seat time if all goes well) and all you do is write a check, show up, hang out and race. No tow vehicle needed, no late weekends prepping for the race, etc. I also like to get my hands dirty with my cars, but dang is it nice to just show up and race.

Note that figuring out which teams have their E36 M3 together and spend the whole weekend on track is a learned skill in and of itself. I've spent "almost no" time on track all the way to "5 hours with no problems at all." So it's not risk free, but the same thing is true of your own car.

In reply to dculberson :

This or Karts

dculberson said:

I really enjoy arrive and drive races with Lemons and other such series. $500 for super E36 M3ty cars up to $1300 for amazing cars gets you a weekend of track time (typically around 4-5 hours actual seat time if all goes well) and all you do is write a check, show up, hang out and race. No tow vehicle needed, no late weekends prepping for the race, etc. I also like to get my hands dirty with my cars, but dang is it nice to just show up and race.

Note that figuring out which teams have their E36 M3 together and spend the whole weekend on track is a learned skill in and of itself. I've spent "almost no" time on track all the way to "5 hours with no problems at all." So it's not risk free, but the same thing is true of your own car.

If only there was a lemons team nearby the OP who had their E36 M3 together who would like a local person to be part of the team...who might that be. 

David, to be fair, you've had some "almost no" track time weekends with us that had more to do with your enjoyment of moonshine than if the car was ready.  , though your advice is still very much on point, the spectrum of quality of teams is quite broad, and typically you get what you pay for.  Vetting goes both ways.  

Sonic said:
David, to be fair, you've had some "almost no" track time weekends with us that had more to do with your enjoyment of moonshine than if the car was ready.  , though your advice is still very much on point, the spectrum of quality of teams is quite broad, and typically you get what you pay for.  Vetting goes both ways.  

Hey, to be fair that only happened like 1.. or.. 5 .. or 6 times.

Sonic is someone to run with if anyone is interested in Lemons arrive and driving; always at the top of the game for taking prep and organization seriously while still having an absolute E36 M3load of fun.

I've been having thoughts of joining you guys at a track where they have villas so the kiddos could have a room. I'll get in touch if (when) that seems like it will work out. I'm seriously missing racing.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

When I was RR costs ran anywhere from 1200$ for double regional IT, to $2000 for reg/nay weekend in tube frame gt3 car, to $3000 for nat/nat weekend in a GT1 car.  All worth every penny. 

Best bang for buck I ever had was me and 2 buddies rented 3 legends cars and ran one weekend Legends on 1/4 mile asphalt oval.   Arrived Friday afternoon and had 3 techs help set up cars....practiced Sat, qualified, heat races and 50 lap feature.  Total was 300$ each plus damage.  Bent one bumper ($30) and broke one ball joint ($40).  

Run an oval dirt track car. It's way more fun than most people realize and it will help your rally skills. If you saw the #90 cars on page two of the dirt modified thread I actually made money racing one, and roughly broke even on the other after expenses.  I race motocross and hare scrambles now. There's no money to be made but bikes are cheap and reliable, and entry for an event is in the $50 range

In reply to Suprf1y :

I'm looking at motorcycle costs right now. A GOOD used bike is cheaper than a crappy autocross car. Add in the costs of insurance/fuel/tires/entry fees and it seems like a whole day of race time on a bike costs about what an autocross does. Not even in the same league as a track day. The risk profile is different, so I have to decide about that, but I grew up playing on motorcycles, so I have at least the basics to start out. I think. We'll see. 

dculberson said:

Sonic said:
David, to be fair, you've had some "almost no" track time weekends with us that had more to do with your enjoyment of moonshine than if the car was ready.  , though your advice is still very much on point, the spectrum of quality of teams is quite broad, and typically you get what you pay for.  Vetting goes both ways.  

Hey, to be fair that only happened like 1.. or.. 5 .. or 6 times.

Sonic is someone to run with if anyone is interested in Lemons arrive and driving; always at the top of the game for taking prep and organization seriously while still having an absolute E36 M3load of fun.

I've been having thoughts of joining you guys at a track where they have villas so the kiddos could have a room. I'll get in touch if (when) that seems like it will work out. I'm seriously missing racing.

David,

You've got to find a way to make that happen...well, as long as you're not taking my seat.    Even if you have to leave the kiddos behind, find a way to make it happen if you're missing racing that much.  My very first LeMons race was literally on my 40th b-day.  The kids were 6, 4, 4 at the time.  That weekend, I promised my wife I'd come home at least one night since it was a "big" b-day for me.  But since that race, I've gone away for the entire weekend every race.  It's hard to tear myself away from the family...every single time.  In fact it gets harder as the years go on.  Now they're heavily involved in competitive sports, so I'm missing something.  Plus it puts an increasing burden on my wife, who has to run 7 different directions at once.  Often, I'll kiss the kids goodnight on Thursday evening and won't see them again until after work Monday...that's hard for me.  However, racing is pretty much the only thing I get to do for myself all year.  Once I'm at the track, I plug into what's happening and am so glad I'm there.  Yeah, I miss home, but I enjoy seeing my friends, being at LeMons, and being in the car.  As crazy as it can be on track in LeMons, I sort of find it my "zen" and am more relaxed out there than I am nearly anywhere else. 

This also ties into my comment to OP.  You didn't mention if you have kids or not, I'm guessing maybe you don't.  If you ever decide to, and even if you don't, you may find that as life goes on you find more reasons to say "I really shouldn't be spending this money on racing".  They're probably all very valid reasons too.  However, if racing is your true passion and is part of your emotional well being, then you will find a way to keep it going at a level that satisfies you.  That, and of course, always make sure the financial resources are there as truly disposable income.   You'll find where that real life obligations vs. fun balance is.  As I said above, it kills me to leave my family for the weekend and I can think of 1000 reasons why I shouldn't.  But when I'm at the track with my team, and in the car doing what I love (albeit slower than the rest of my team...LOL), all those reasons why I shouldn't be there disappear.  If you love racing, and it's in the budget, do it.  How nuts you get about it is up to you.

I do A - but I have been volunteering for 18 years at rallies and I only picked up my rally car less than 2 years ago.

I have managed to get it to 1 rallysprint in that period, but now that my separation is almost done and I'm moving, I'm hoping to change that. Volunteering at other events is 2nd nature for me because that's how I started. 

Once I get a new place, I'm planning to do D - Flip a few cars every year to make a few extra $$$$'s