Rescue Lab destroys all!

Nearly 17 years ago, I got two puppies at the same time. They proved to wreck havoc playing if left alone in the house. Rather than two crates, I got one large "crate" -- rather, chain link fence sections as such like you might find at Tractor Supply.

Mine was 6'x8' floorspace with 4' tall sides.

I took these panels into my basement and there on the concrete floor created "dogland". They has food and water and toys and each other but there was nothing they could ruin. We all enjoyed each other much more after that year or so. They turned out to be the greatest dogs. One made it to 13, the other is still here at 16+.

I did forget to mention when I crate trained my beagle, she learned to push up on the latches, then chew through the zipties I fastened them with, then somehow undo the wire ties I tried after that. I went to cheap $.59 cent alumium snap carabiners and she twisted them sideways until they failed. After that I used a padlock or big real carabiners and didn't have any more problems.

Give him some honest-to-goodness training on the "Come!" command, when playing outside. Get a looooong lead - 30-40 feet. That way, he has NO option to anything but return to you when you say, "Come!" Say it firmly, like you motherberkeleying mean it, and then pull him to you. When he's at your feet, step on the lead, right below him, that way you can lavish him with praise with both hands. Do this when he gets his toy, so he knows to bring it back and "keep away" will no longer be tolerated. Do this when he's heading away from you, so he doesn't run off into a potentially dangerous situation. Do this when he's meandering around the yard (though it doesn't sound like he meanders much), so he learns any time you call, he returns to your side.

wvumtnbkr wrote: A doggie door is a no go. Our 2 cats would get out. They are way too wussified to go outside and survive.

So?

Crate training is one of the nicest things you can do for your dog if you do it right. A crate should never be a punishment, but it should be the dogs own little place. It will make them feel safe, dogs like to have a den.

I had great debate with one of our rescue organizations who specializes in puppy mill rescues. They told me it was cruel to crate train a dog that had lived it's whole life in a cage. Well now they come and meet my puppy mill rescue who live in a cage for 4 years and see her play and have fun in her cage. She goes into it willingly and happily at bedtime because she likes it in there, she feels safe in there and who doesn't want to feel safe when they are sleeping. She more than any other dog has proven to me that crates are a good thing and dogs appreciate them. And sadly, for these mill dogs, a cage is their idea of normal so its not as traumatic as the rescue wanted to believe it was.

Some days I'll come home from work and my other dogs are running around and my MinPin is up in his crate napping because he wanted to get away from the other dogs and have some peace and quiet.

Oh, and throw and old blanket or sheet over it so its covered on the top and sides, it doesn't feel like a "den" if you can see out all the sides. Once they feel safe in there you won't have to fight them with it. I have 5 dogs and when I am getting ready to go out it's a race to see who can get to their kennel first.

DILYSI Dave wrote:

wvumtnbkr wrote: A doggie door is a no go. Our 2 cats would get out. They are way too wussified to go outside and survive.

Sounds like a win-win. :)

ok ... that's one more ruined keyboard

slefain wrote: Give it some time. Labs calm down after a while, usually after ten or twelve years. Our lab is about 14 years old, but until the last few years he was balls out all day, every day. You could power your house off the energy a lab can generate.

werd

My dad has had Labs all my life (12 days short of 45 years). All of them were puppies for 12-14 years, then they got old and shortly called it quits.

Calming treats before you leave can help. They were a life saver with the Chihuahua we rescued a year and a half ago. Started out she got them twice a day, in the morning when we got up and when we got home in the evening. We've slowly weaned her off of them so that she only gets one when.were expecting foul weather. Amazon has em cheaper than the big pet chains, we use the one that's a blue and beige bag. Basicly a massive dose.of.vitamins that does seem to have a calming effect. Poor dog would get so wound up over us leaving or a loud noise that she literally would be kinda staggering from hyperventalating.

JThw8 wrote: Oh, and throw and old blanket or sheet over it so its covered on the top and sides, it doesn't feel like a "den" if you can see out all the sides. Once they feel safe in there you won't have to fight them with it. I have 5 dogs and when I am getting ready to go out it's a race to see who can get to their kennel first.

thats what some people say, but if I put a blanket over our crate for my beagle/dalmation mix, she would manage to get ahold of it through the bars and pull it into her cage and shred it.

andrave wrote:

JThw8 wrote: Oh, and throw and old blanket or sheet over it so its covered on the top and sides, it doesn't feel like a "den" if you can see out all the sides. Once they feel safe in there you won't have to fight them with it. I have 5 dogs and when I am getting ready to go out it's a race to see who can get to their kennel first.

thats what some people say, but if I put a blanket over our crate for my beagle/dalmation mix, she would manage to get ahold of it through the bars and pull it into her cage and shred it.

True, it varies by dog, we've had some sheet shredders in the past :)

Crate and keep playing tug of war. Lots off training when you're home.

also, forgot one thing that has had UNBELIEVABLE results...

http://www.thundershirt.com/

Somehow, this vest applies consistent pressure ont he animal, which relaxes them and relieves anxiety...it was the best cash weve spent on Bandit after a few training sessions with a real obedience school.

Update:

Last night I bought a crate. I put it together with Steve's (Steve is the Meth Lab) help. He is always interested in what I am working on. When I finished it up, he hopped right in and looked around. He went in and out a few times.

I decided to put his food in the crate. He walked right in and ate some. I left his food in there and he went back and forth (like normal) eatting every once in a while.

I let him watch me close the door on the crate and he didn't freak out...... ....then he did. I let him back out. We went through this a few more times. I don't think he hates the idea of being locked in the crate, we just arent there yet.

As far as the fetch / keep away is concerned, we made some progress there as well. I took a lot of some dog food that the shelter gave us (not the stuff he eats now) as treats. Everytime he brought the toy back and dropped it, I gave him a treat. We played for 45 minutes or so. Then, I could tell he was about to start the keep away game.

He was running all over and wouldn't quite bring his toy back. I ignored him and he came over to me without his toy. I decided it was time to go in. He hesitated when I called him into the house. I held out a treat from about 30 feet away and called him. He came running into the house with his toy. I gave him the treat and LOTS of attention and "good boy"s.

I think we are making progress already. I am pretty sure there will be several setbacks, but the initial results are encouraging.

Thanks All,

Rob R.

Good to hear that you're making progress.

wvumtnbkr wrote: He hesitated when I called him into the house

With a looong lead, he won't have the chance to hesitate.

anyone else tried the thundershirt? my dog used to get anxiety pretty bad and we strongly considered it but didn't want to risk $40 on what seemed like a pretty sketchy solution. neither of our dogs really seem to be able to tolerate having anything on them, whether its a neoprene vest for protecting them from briars when we play in the heavy brush, or reindeer antleers for hilarious holiday photos.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote:

wvumtnbkr wrote: 2nd) He likes to play "keep away" when we are outside. Usually, we play in the backyard (partially fenced). We play fetch with various toys. We also play "tug" (I know some people think this is bad). After a while, he will retrieve his toy and bring it to about 5 feet away from us. He will not bring it the entire way. When you reach for the toy, he grabs it and runs off with it. When he does this, he will not listen anymore. He will not come, stay, sit, or go into the house. Sometimes this standoff lasts for 30 minutes or so. When he does finally come, we praise him and give him treats. I have no idea why he does this.

He isn't playing fetch with you. He is playing "Keep the toy away". Try having a 2nd toy in your hand. When he gets 5 feet away, show him the 2nd and say "Give" and put your hand out. It might take a while but praise him when he makes progress and PAY ZERO ATTENTION when he does not. He is trying to get you to chase him but he likes all the negative attention too... so ignore him until he comes looking for you. Then take the toy and throw the other one.

This. Our stray lab/shepherd mix is a complete spaz, here's what I do with him.

Get two squeaky tennis balls. The ones Kong makes work well and hold up pretty good over time. Squeak one to get his attention. Once he comes over, throw it for him. He'll go get it- then when he gets to 5' away and stops, you start squeaking the other. When he drops the first one, say "drop it" and when he comes closer looking for your squeaking tennis ball, throw it, then go pick up the other. Repeat 30-50x, or until the dog lies down panting.

Eventually he'll figure out that you're only playing if he goes by your rules, as well as learn the "drop it" command, which is a good thing. Mix in treats here and there to reinforce. Don't chase after him. That's its own game, and self-reinforcing for the dog: "hey, if I piss him off by ____, he'll chase me and yell! Yay! Fun!!"

andrave wrote: anyone else tried the thundershirt? my dog used to get anxiety pretty bad and we strongly considered it but didn't want to risk $40 on what seemed like a pretty sketchy solution. neither of our dogs really seem to be able to tolerate having anything on them, whether its a neoprene vest for protecting them from briars when we play in the heavy brush, or reindeer antleers for hilarious holiday photos.

Our one rescue chi a) is very scared of thunder and b) hates to have anything on her

Buuuut, she is fine with a thundershirt on. I was pretty skeptical at first too but I had quite a few friends who touted them so I gave it a shot. As soon as there is a storm rolling in we pull out the shirt and she runs right over to get it put on. Doesn't mind it at all and it calms her greatly during the storms.

so weird.

andrave wrote: anyone else tried the thundershirt? my dog used to get anxiety pretty bad and we strongly considered it but didn't want to risk $40 on what seemed like a pretty sketchy solution. neither of our dogs really seem to be able to tolerate having anything on them, whether its a neoprene vest for protecting them from briars when we play in the heavy brush, or reindeer antleers for hilarious holiday photos.

I posted just above you - The effects are immediate with Bandit. After a seizure, hes out of his mind with anxious energy and cannot stop moving...at all. Just paces and paces and paces and paces and paces and paces and...

Put the thundershirt on him, and he...just...stops. Like a drunk who has passed out, he just lays down, and wont move for 10 minutes or so. After that 10 minutes, hes back up, but NOTABLY more relaxed. We will leave it on for another few hours, as it seems to just take the edge off him and allow him to return to reality.

Dont leave it on too long though, the effect seems to wear off after about 4 hours. But used when anxiety/fear is fresh and the thing works miracles. Cant say enough about the effect it has. And, its totally homeopathic - no side effects aside from the doggie version of hat-head.

JThw8 wrote:

andrave wrote: anyone else tried the thundershirt? my dog used to get anxiety pretty bad and we strongly considered it but didn't want to risk $40 on what seemed like a pretty sketchy solution. neither of our dogs really seem to be able to tolerate having anything on them, whether its a neoprene vest for protecting them from briars when we play in the heavy brush, or reindeer antleers for hilarious holiday photos.

Our one rescue chi a) is very scared of thunder and b) hates to have anything on her Buuuut, she is fine with a thundershirt on. I was pretty skeptical at first too but I had quite a few friends who touted them so I gave it a shot. As soon as there is a storm rolling in we pull out the shirt and she runs right over to get it put on. Doesn't mind it at all and it calms her greatly during the storms.

Same with our little chi girl. Rumble, Rumble.....Mom, Dad where's my coat?!?!?!?!?!?!

Sounds like a typical lab. So much truth in the movie Marley and Me. My daughter had a lab that did that too. Lots of damage to her house. Even got a second dog for company and the lab still reaked havic. Finally had to get rid of it and gave it to a farmer. The dog settled down when it had a lot of open space to burn of energy.

A lab mix was the best dog I've had.

After watching a Lab play fetch until it passed out..

We bought a Berner..

Much happier with a couch potato, he's good for about 20 minutes of play, then he needs a nap.

He's 1.5 years old, still very much a puppy but a great, loyal companion, trained very easily and can be left home unattended even though he comes to work with me every day.

He spends most of his days asleep in the corner of the shop while I'm working.

He greets all the parts delivery girls and in the summer he gets them to bend down and pet him Great dog.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

When I was younger and single I had a huge by breed standard Springer Spaniel that would bury his head into the chest of about any woman who knelt down to pet him. He usually got the "Oh he's sweet or Oh he's so cute" response. I told him many times while buying him a burger or whatever that he sucked, but he's a good boy!

Trans_Maro wrote: After watching a Lab play fetch until it passed out.. We bought a Berner.. Much happier with a couch potato, he's good for about 20 minutes of play, then he needs a nap. He's 1.5 years old, still very much a puppy but a great, loyal companion, trained very easily and can be left home unattended even though he comes to work with me every day. He spends most of his days asleep in the corner of the shop while I'm working. He greets all the parts delivery girls and in the summer he gets them to bend down and pet him Great dog.

ok I give ... what's a Berner ?

Lots of great advice in this thread, as usual for GRM.

Keep in mind that with a new dog, you are both still feeling each other out. He has learned that you know how to play this awesome game called "chase", where you chase him until he is tired. He has also learned that he is quite a bit faster than "you".

First, get a crate (sounds like you have done that already).
Second, get some really fantastic dog treats. These often come in the shape of tiny bits of hot dog, or cheese. Figure out which is more valuable to your dog (ours is cheese believe it or don't).
Give the dog "treats" on a slot-machine basis, meaning randomly for good dog behavior. Not EVERY time the dog does the right thing, but RANDOMLY. The dog becomes comfortable with you being the treat-giver and the decider. YOU decide when doggy play-time is over and bring the dog inside before "keep away time" begins, even if this means getting a really long lead and playing while on the lead ALL the TIME.
For separation anxiety, try a KONG filled with frozen chicken broth in the crate, no hype, no songs or high pitched puppy talk, just BAM, KONG and GO. Our dogs know that only good things happen in their crate so they love their crates. Crates are never used for punishment, although they are used for time-outs, just no hard admonishment administered before they go in. IGNORE behavior that you do not want and PRAISE behavior that you do want. Dogs, especially Labs, want to please you, but they are high energy too. You have to find that balance between fun and control. Take him for daily walks/runs and then try your training routine on lead in the yard. A tired dog has less energy to resist you.

wbjones wrote: ok I give ... what's a Berner ?

This:

Is Gus..

He's a Berner Sennenhund or Bernese Mountain Dog.

He's my buddy and the best cat toy we ever bought:

The wife and I have always had big dogs, we thought about German Shepherds, Rotties, Mastiffs, Great Danes, even a fat little English Bulldog but when we met his parents, their personality just blew us away. I don't think I'll ever get another breed again.

Shawn

P.S. The cat in the picture is Phydaux, she's one of four random, recycled cats that own our house.