Again, only USMC and AF SOC have Ospreys and neither will ever have anything to do with police action in the US. Training flights happen all the time, you noticing one at a time/place you considered unusual is meaningless. Squadrons are in the air doing different stuff literally every day, care to fabricate conspiracies about those flights, too?
In reply to 1988RedT2:
http://www.barnettshalenews.com/documents/2012/legal/Court%20Order%20Denial%20of%20Lipsky%20Motion%20to%20Dismiss%20Range%20Counterclaim%202-16-2012.pdf
jsquared wrote: ...care to fabricate conspiracies about those flights, too?
Hi jsquarded,
I really don’t care very much one way or the other and I think my lack of intensity on the subject provides considerable insulation from “fabricating conspiracy theories”.
I see stuff and if it’s interesting, I may share it. If I propose an explanation and there’s some reason why it’s IMPOSSIBRU! or significantly less probable than some other explanation, of course, everyone is welcome to chime in and provide enlightenment.
Here’s a link to an article that was published yesterday by Joshua Stewart in MilitaryTimes.
So, it was the Marines and they were doing urban exercises in Los Angeles.
Isn’t that consistent with everything I said…perhaps I’m missing some nuance. If that’s the case, it’s not due to my tin foil hat being on too tight, it’s that I’m playing way down at the level of “pretty airplane fly close…me excited and want to share big news with friends”.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RfinlSc1B6w#t=54
Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to 1988RedT2: http://www.barnettshalenews.com/documents/2012/legal/Court%20Order%20Denial%20of%20Lipsky%20Motion%20to%20Dismiss%20Range%20Counterclaim%202-16-2012.pdf
Surprise, surprise. The companies that make billions of dollars from fracking want to suppress information that claims it's bad. Hmmm. What to believe, what to believe? 
1988RedT2 wrote:Trans_Maro wrote: In reply to 1988RedT2: http://www.barnettshalenews.com/documents/2012/legal/Court%20Order%20Denial%20of%20Lipsky%20Motion%20to%20Dismiss%20Range%20Counterclaim%202-16-2012.pdfSurprise, surprise. The companies that make billions of dollars from fracking want to suppress information that claims it's bad. Hmmm. What to believe, what to believe?
Did the fossil fuel industry LIE to us!? How long has this been going on!? Were they telling the truth about global warming, that it's an international conspiracy of scientists all cooperating to not collect a Nobel for breaking rank!?
RX Reven' wrote:jsquared wrote: ...care to fabricate conspiracies about those flights, too?Hi jsquarded, I really don’t care very much one way or the other and I think my lack of intensity on the subject provides considerable insulation from “fabricating conspiracy theories”. I see stuff and if it’s interesting, I may share it. If I propose an explanation and there’s some reason why it’s IMPOSSIBRU! or significantly less probable than some other explanation, of course, everyone is welcome to chime in and provide enlightenment. Here’s a link to an article that was published yesterday by Joshua Stewart in MilitaryTimes. MilitartTimes So, it was the Marines and they were doing urban exercises in Los Angeles. Isn’t that consistent with everything I said…perhaps I’m missing some nuance. If that’s the case, it’s not due to my tin foil hat being on too tight, it’s that I’m playing way down at the level of “pretty airplane fly close…me excited and want to share big news with friends”.
What set me off was the preposterous absurdity that the first thing you think of when seeing low flying Ospreys is that the Marines are training to attack and invade American cities.
In reply to jsquared:
When the Mexicans invade and take over American cities the Marines will need to know how to attack and invade American cities. Makes perfect sense to me. It's going to be like red dawn, only with Mexicans. They've already got most of the people in place, trust me, it's going to happen.
jsquared wrote:RX Reven' wrote:What set me off was the preposterous absurdity that the first thing you think of when seeing low flying Ospreys is that the Marines are training to attack and invade *American cities*.jsquared wrote: ...care to fabricate conspiracies about those flights, too?Hi jsquarded, I really don’t care very much one way or the other and I think my lack of intensity on the subject provides considerable insulation from “fabricating conspiracy theories”. I see stuff and if it’s interesting, I may share it. If I propose an explanation and there’s some reason why it’s IMPOSSIBRU! or significantly less probable than some other explanation, of course, everyone is welcome to chime in and provide enlightenment. Here’s a link to an article that was published yesterday by Joshua Stewart in MilitaryTimes. MilitartTimes So, it was the Marines and they were doing urban exercises in Los Angeles. Isn’t that consistent with everything I said…perhaps I’m missing some nuance. If that’s the case, it’s not due to my tin foil hat being on too tight, it’s that I’m playing way down at the level of “pretty airplane fly close…me excited and want to share big news with friends”.
Good grief, show me where I said that…I’ll wait.
Added later…
Given that you said “training” rather than “ramping up for” or some language to that effect then yes, I do think that’s what they’re doing…how could I not, as linked above, an article in MilitaryTimes was just published stating that.
Perhaps you’re suggesting that they’re training in the U.S. for convenience sake but they’d never execute a mission on U.S. soil because that’d violate some fundamental constitutional prohibition. I don’t know, that’s way above my pay grade.
I’m just coming at this from a common sense prospective. E36 M3 could happen, military resources would be useful if it did, the task would be too complex to slap a plan together after the fact…makes sense to me to be ready if needed.
I’ll be the first to admit I’m not an expert on this stuff…if I’m unwittingly saying something provocative, that’s not my intent.
This is great!
RX Reven' wrote: Good grief, show me where I said that…I’ll wait.
Further up this page:
RX Reven' wrote: So, as mentioned a few pages ago, I experienced a super close fly-by from a V-22 Osprey last Sunday and it was speculated that it was part the urban planning (I’ll leave it at that) which is currently taking place in Los Angeles.
Given the inference in bold and the fact that we're in a threat about riots, in which people have discussed militarization of the police, you should be able to see why I thought you were implying that. If you were not, then I apologize and will ask what "urban planning" you were referring to. There have also been allusions, either this thread or another - I honestly don't remember exactly due to the page count - to the potential gov't use of DoD branches against Americans on American soil, which is a matter that would get under the skin of servicemembers in all branches.
Also, Posse Comitatus is what prevents fed gov from using military in police actions against US citizens.
In reply to jsquared:
Till they wants to march us inta them thar FEMA death camps.
jsquared wrote:RX Reven' wrote: Good grief, show me where I said that…I’ll wait.Further up this page:RX Reven' wrote: So, as mentioned a few pages ago, I experienced a super close fly-by from a V-22 Osprey last Sunday and it was speculated that it was part the urban planning (I’ll leave it at that) which is currently taking place in Los Angeles.Given the inference in bold and the fact that we're in a threat about riots, in which people have discussed militarization of the police, you should be able to see why I thought you were implying that. If you were not, then I apologize and will ask what "urban planning" you were referring to. There have also been allusions, either this thread or another - I honestly don't remember exactly due to the page count - to the potential gov't use of DoD branches against Americans on American soil, which is a matter that would get under the skin of servicemembers in all branches. Also, Posse Comitatus is what prevents fed gov from using military in police actions against US citizens.
Hi jsquared,
Thank you for providing the clarification.
As Freud once famously said, “sometimes a train shaped like a giant banana vigorously driving in and out of a tunnel is just a train shaped like a giant banana vigorously driving in and out of a tunnel.”
I might be paraphrasing slightly but I’m sure you get my point.
LOL
In terms of answering your question about what “urban planning” I was referring to.
All that happened was that I mentioned the V-22 fly-by to my wife and she said “oh yah, I read an article in the paper that the military was doing urban planning in Los Angeles”.
We’ve been together for twenty years, she graduated Com Laude in English from UC Riverside and spells better in Russian and French than I do in English.
I don’t fact check SWAMBO on literary matters.
Regrettably, I didn’t know this was a sensitive subject so I didn’t see the need to research the subject further to ensure that I didn’t say anything that could be misconstrued....I'm sorry about that.
Just blame her for calling it "urban planning"
I think the sensitivity was heightened by previous comments along the lines of using the armed forces within the US, and I really can't remember if it was this thread or not. Sorry for the gruffness. You may also have been an unintentional victim of me getting wound up about the NSA discussion in the other thread. 
In a slightly topical note, on Facebook someone posted a Key and Peele video about police interaction, but I can't find the URL at the moment... which sucks, because it was funny
A very well thought out posting by Mike Rowe:
Off The Wall
Hello Mr. Mike Rowe. I'm a big fan and also happen to work in the lower Haight as well as live in Alameda. I have to ask with everything that is going on in Ferguson, how do you feel about the protests in SF as well as the looting/rioting in downtown Oakland?
Hi Meghan
Last week, those very protests blocked off one of the major arteries, and as a result, I was 90 minutes late to a holiday dinner in Alameda. I apologized for my tardiness, and was told by my hostess not to give it a second thought. “It’s a small price to pay,” she said, “given all that’s at stake.” Another guest, already well into the eggnog, wondered aloud if a heart attack victim waiting for an ambulance stuck in traffic might hold a different view?
Within moments, everyone was talking about Garner and Brown, and the conversation got very political very quickly. A liberal guest said, “Look, I wasn’t there, but it seems pretty clear that both men would still be alive had they been white.” A conservative guest replied, “I wasn’t there either, but it seems pretty clear that both men would still be alive if they hadn’t resisted arrest.”
This annoyed the liberal, who asked the conservative why Republicans wanted a “police state.” This annoyed the conservative, who asked the liberal why Democrats wanted “total anarchy.” Things continued to escalate, and within moments, fingers were pointing, veins were bulging, and logical fallacies were filling the air. Ho! ho! ho!
For once, I kept my mouth shut and listened as a roomful of decent people tore each others throats out. It was remarkable, because no one disagreed on the big points. No one disagreed that black lives mattered just as much as white lives. No one disputed that racial bias in law enforcement should be exposed and eliminated. In fact, no one disagreed about the basic facts surrounding each case. The breakdown happened over relevance and context.
My conservative friends were focused on the fact that both men died while resisting arrest, and were therefor responsible for their own demise. They wanted to discuss the killings in light of the incredible risk that all police officers agree to assume.
My liberal friends were focused on the fact that both men were unarmed, and were therefor victims of excessive force. They wanted to discuss the killings in the context of historical trends that suggest bias plays a recurring role in the way cops treat minorities.
By dessert, it was clear that both sides wanted law and order. But the conservatives were convinced that order is only possible when citizens treat cops with respect. Liberals, on the other hand, were arguing that order can only occur when cops treat everyone the same. And round and round we went. The chicken and the egg.
Later, on the drive home, I called a friend of mine back in Baltimore. He’s black, successful, and hard-working. He also resents the way he’s gotten swept into the zeitgeist of Ferguson. In his words, “I’m a pawn in someone else’s agenda, and I’m sick of it. I know what bias looks like in my life. I'm tired of being represented by two petty criminals who died resisting arrest.”
I hadn't thought about it like that, but he's got a point. The vast majority of black Americans have never broken the law. And yet, millions of lives are now entwined with the death of Brown and Garner. That's not fair, but it's hardly breaking news. Minorities are constantly stereotyped and the impression lingers. Looters and arsonists run amok, and Black America suffers the association. Now I'm trying to get my head around the fact that two cops are dead in Brooklyn, assassinated by a lunatic in “retaliation” for Ferguson and Staten Island. Unbelievable.
How much worse can it get for the millions of law-abiding minorities, struggling to be seen as individuals? How much worse can it get for the thousands of honest cops, trying to protect a citizenry that doesn't seem to appreciate their daily sacrifice?
A few days ago, people were marching in the streets, literally calling for the execution of police. (“What do we want? Dead Cops!”) Others are standing by today, waiting to lionize the assassins who answer the call. These are not the champions of justice; these are the enemies of civilization, and it’s up to sensible people on both sides of the aisle to close ranks and shout them down. If we want to live in a nation of laws, we need to support the humans sworn to uphold them. They’re a lot of really great cops out there who have promised to do that very thing, including the one in my family. We’d be screwed without them.
To answer your question Meghan, I support peaceful protests, and I’m all for rooting out bad cops. But let’s not stop there. If we're serious about saving lives, and eliminating the confrontations that lead to the demise of Garner and Brown, let’s also condemn the stupidity that leads so many Americans to resist arrest. I don't care if you're white, black, red, periwinkle, burnt umber, or chartreuse - resisting arrest is not a right, it’s a crime. And it's never a good idea.
Mike
PS. In lighter news, it's come to my attention that CNN will attempt to air a new episode of SGDI, tonight at 9pm Eastern. (Assuming we can get through a whole day without a riot, an earthquake, a terrorist attack, and Ebola outbreak, or a Zombie Apocalypse.)
Mike
Trans_Maro wrote: A very well thought out posting by Mike Rowe: Off The Wall Hello Mr. Mike Rowe. I'm a big fan and also happen to work in the lower Haight as well as live in Alameda. I have to ask with everything that is going on in Ferguson, how do you feel about the protests in SF as well as the looting/rioting in downtown Oakland? Hi Meghan Last week, those very protests blocked off one of the major arteries, and as a result, I was 90 minutes late to a holiday dinner in Alameda. I apologized for my tardiness, and was told by my hostess not to give it a second thought. “It’s a small price to pay,” she said, “given all that’s at stake.” Another guest, already well into the eggnog, wondered aloud if a heart attack victim waiting for an ambulance stuck in traffic might hold a different view? Within moments, everyone was talking about Garner and Brown, and the conversation got very political very quickly. A liberal guest said, “Look, I wasn’t there, but it seems pretty clear that both men would still be alive had they been white.” A conservative guest replied, “I wasn’t there either, but it seems pretty clear that both men would still be alive if they hadn’t resisted arrest.” This annoyed the liberal, who asked the conservative why Republicans wanted a “police state.” This annoyed the conservative, who asked the liberal why Democrats wanted “total anarchy.” Things continued to escalate, and within moments, fingers were pointing, veins were bulging, and logical fallacies were filling the air. Ho! ho! ho! For once, I kept my mouth shut and listened as a roomful of decent people tore each others throats out. It was remarkable, because no one disagreed on the big points. No one disagreed that black lives mattered just as much as white lives. No one disputed that racial bias in law enforcement should be exposed and eliminated. In fact, no one disagreed about the basic facts surrounding each case. The breakdown happened over relevance and context. My conservative friends were focused on the fact that both men died while resisting arrest, and were therefor responsible for their own demise. They wanted to discuss the killings in light of the incredible risk that all police officers agree to assume. My liberal friends were focused on the fact that both men were unarmed, and were therefor victims of excessive force. They wanted to discuss the killings in the context of historical trends that suggest bias plays a recurring role in the way cops treat minorities. By dessert, it was clear that both sides wanted law and order. But the conservatives were convinced that order is only possible when citizens treat cops with respect. Liberals, on the other hand, were arguing that order can only occur when cops treat everyone the same. And round and round we went. The chicken and the egg. Later, on the drive home, I called a friend of mine back in Baltimore. He’s black, successful, and hard-working. He also resents the way he’s gotten swept into the zeitgeist of Ferguson. In his words, “I’m a pawn in someone else’s agenda, and I’m sick of it. I know what bias looks like in my life. I'm tired of being represented by two petty criminals who died resisting arrest.” I hadn't thought about it like that, but he's got a point. The vast majority of black Americans have never broken the law. And yet, millions of lives are now entwined with the death of Brown and Garner. That's not fair, but it's hardly breaking news. Minorities are constantly stereotyped and the impression lingers. Looters and arsonists run amok, and Black America suffers the association. Now I'm trying to get my head around the fact that two cops are dead in Brooklyn, assassinated by a lunatic in “retaliation” for Ferguson and Staten Island. Unbelievable. How much worse can it get for the millions of law-abiding minorities, struggling to be seen as individuals? How much worse can it get for the thousands of honest cops, trying to protect a citizenry that doesn't seem to appreciate their daily sacrifice? A few days ago, people were marching in the streets, literally calling for the execution of police. (“What do we want? Dead Cops!”) Others are standing by today, waiting to lionize the assassins who answer the call. These are not the champions of justice; these are the enemies of civilization, and it’s up to sensible people on both sides of the aisle to close ranks and shout them down. If we want to live in a nation of laws, we need to support the humans sworn to uphold them. They’re a lot of really great cops out there who have promised to do that very thing, including the one in my family. We’d be screwed without them. To answer your question Meghan, I support peaceful protests, and I’m all for rooting out bad cops. But let’s not stop there. If we're serious about saving lives, and eliminating the confrontations that lead to the demise of Garner and Brown, let’s also condemn the stupidity that leads so many Americans to resist arrest. I don't care if you're white, black, red, periwinkle, burnt umber, or chartreuse - resisting arrest is not a right, it’s a crime. And it's never a good idea. Mike PS. In lighter news, it's come to my attention that CNN will attempt to air a new episode of SGDI, tonight at 9pm Eastern. (Assuming we can get through a whole day without a riot, an earthquake, a terrorist attack, and Ebola outbreak, or a Zombie Apocalypse.) Mike
Will this guy please run for some office somewhere?
In reply to tuna55:
He wants to stay out of the bullE36 M3.....
Only thing he needed to add was that we need real programs to create real working class jobs for all lower income people in this country. Education, jobs, and dignity.
In reply to Beer Baron:
Well, we had them.....and then the UAW happened. Now I drive past empty factories and desolate lots where there were once factories. The home of the GM m22 4sp, the borg warner transmissions, delphi/delco electronics, etc.
Basically put, what went wrong was greed and a lack of giving a damn after they "Got theirs". Everything folded, and it screwed over a solid 2-3 generations thus far....and will continue to.
Beer Baron wrote: Only thing he needed to add was that we need real programs to create real working class jobs for all lower income people in this country. Education, jobs, and dignity.
Stop that!
BB, those jobs went to China, Mexico, Peru, El Salvador, Viet Nam.... They ain't coming back.
He also left out the responsibility the media has and abuses without pause. They are using racism to further their agenda, and blood is on their hands.
I listen a lot to NPR. In the past several months, I have heard the phrase "black man killed by a white cop" hundreds and hundreds of times. I became so aware of it that I started paying VERY close attention.
I never heard a single broadcast about either Mr Brown nor Mr Ferguson that did not mention skin color. Not 1.
I first started hearing about Ismaaiyl Brinsley at 5:00 AM Sunday morning. I remember thinking, "I wonder if he is black". NPR did not say. Since that time, I have heard more than a dozen NPR reports on the subject. They have never once mentioned the skin color of the murderer.
While "protestors" chant "What do we want? Dead cops!", media outlets are not only content to stand by and "report" on what is happening, but step in to encourage them and prod them on. What the hell- it sells more news. Must be good- we are capitalists. Besides, its free speech, right?
They are murderous bastards who are becoming increasingly excellent at inciting riots, even at the cost of the lives of decent people trying to build our communities.
The media has the power to initiate positive change. They would rather let us die choking while they shove their agenda down our throats.
Rest in peace, Officers Ramos and Liu.
A friend of mine is a successful black businessman. Rags to riches story.
He told me this morning that he is sick and tired of the media lumping him together with thieves and drug dealers. He said every time he hears about this he feels like the point is being made that black people are crooks and can't be trusted, do not respect authority, and will go to extremes to resist arrest, then chant in the streets for the execution of cops.
He's pissed. Me too.
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