Schools, Shootings, Children and Adulthood

I wonder whether we can blame the media?  Seems like a reasonable thing.

No, wait, hear me out.  I spent my developing years (born 1960) firmly convinced I was gonna die in the middle of a nuclear fireball, (My grade six teacher told us in 1972 that the then current Israeli/Egyptian conflict could easily be WW3)  then that pollution was out of hand and we were going back to an ice age, and that my pecker was going to fall off from the clap, and so on.  And that was without the constant barrage of 24 hour biased news and bullE36 M3 on Facebook and Twitter from extremists on both sides of the political fence.  A young brain doesn't have the history to understand that most doomsday stuff doesn't really come true. 

So, and I know this to be true from personal experience, maybe its easier to just consider going nuts and shooting up the joint.  Not everyone can resist the temptation.

Solution?  In the case of the Florida shooter, he had the extra stress of being an orphan.  Maybe somewhere in his twisted thinking, he knows he will have a home in jail, with food and health care for the rest of his life.  This is where the whole discussion devolves into an argument about the merits of a social safety net and the whole left/right political  thing. 

I don't have an answer, but I hate the idea of locking schools and arming teachers.  I think that might contribute to more problems, probably convincing more kids the world is going to hell, and they just don't want to play anymore.

Ashyukun (Robert) said:

In reply to jmabarone :

I won't lie that there are plenty of times when the idea that you have to demonstrate some level of commitment to the country or your community being a prerequisite for voting has seemed like a good idea- but unfortunately I know that there are many who would seize upon that as a way to make it more difficult for people who want to and are willing to serve and take on the responsibilities to be able to do so. I also think we need to fix some of the current problems with our voting/citizenship system first. Automatic voter registration when you hit the voting age is a good start on the voting side. On the citizenship side, while saying that you have to serve in the military/civil service/etc. is required to be a citizen is a challenging idea I do solidly believe that if you DO serve the country honorably in the military that it should automatically grand you citizenship.

I disagree, but I am a firm believer in personal responsibility.  Perhaps my school was just awesome (which I doubt), but we had a voter registration drive my senior year and it even included a mock election using the actual voting machines.  We didn't even have any hanging chads, either.  

Unbelievable that in this atmosphere a 14 yo can be this stupid. 

I think the media is a Huge part of the problem. They sell fear constantly and people are depressed and hopeless as a result. Our brains are evolved to watch what is scary because that's where the danger comes from, they capitalize on that constantly to the detriment of our entire culture. The politicians use tribalism to divide us and the media terrifies us, not good for a utopian society.  

In reply to GameboyRMH : Having watched countless schools under construction I’ve never seen reactive metals used ( hint they are too expensive not to mention the building inspector would never allow their use). 

In reply to Carbon :

they only give people what they want... If they didn't they'd be out of business. 

Fueled by Caffeine said:

In reply to Carbon :

they only give advertisers what they want... If they didn't they'd be out of business. 

fixed that for you. They do draw people's attention, but it is debatable if that is what people want or not.

Carbon said:

I think the media is a Huge part of the problem. They sell fear constantly and people are depressed and hopeless as a result. Our brains are evolved to watch what is scary because that's where the danger comes from, they capitalize on that constantly to the detriment of our entire culture. The politicians use tribalism to divide us and the media terrifies us, not good for a utopian society.  

Nailed it. I'm not saying this the entire problem, but this is a bajillion percent true and a huge problem in itself.

In reply to Robbie :

You have it backwards.  Advertisers only want people to watch.  People don't watch for the advertisements they watch for the content.  

Friends caused it.

But in all seriousness, between tv shows that show how amazing everything in their fantasy world is.  Madison Avenue constantly selling us the "dream".  And social media where most people only show their "good" side.  Is it any wonder that when young people look away from their screens and see the banal drudgery of their lives they get a little twitchy?

Make believe:  "Tonight on the bachelor 30 gorgeous women fight for the attention of our stud!" 

Reality moment:  kid can't figure out how to even talk to girls.

In reply to Fueled by Caffeine :

I think we are saying mostly the same thing. I'm trying to emphasize that you don't have to want to watch something to have it catch/hold your attention. Also, fear is the most useful emotion for commercializing (i.e. no feeling makes you buy like fear).

Advertisers are paying for people's attention. They don't care if those people want to watch.

I once read an opinion by someone who served in WW2 that today's kids don't see how fragile life is. I guess his older brother went in, and got killed, and he was like right behind him. He was all happy to join until news of his older brother came home and it really freaked him out that he was going to his death. He said that sentiment was everywhere at the time, that little kids, even under 10 would hear about parents or older siblings or relatives dying in the war and it really soaked into society for those generations that life was precious. 

It's weird to think that a peaceful society who sends it's young to war likely continues to be more peaceful for the generations who remember those conflicts. 

Carbon said:

I think the media is a Huge part of the problem. They sell fear constantly and people are depressed and hopeless as a result. Our brains are evolved to watch what is scary because that's where the danger comes from, they capitalize on that constantly to the detriment of our entire culture. The politicians use tribalism to divide us and the media terrifies us, not good for a utopian society.  

Once we are divided, the middle is held hostage by the far left and right.

Fueled by Caffeine said:

Here’s another interesting statistic. My wife is a teacher who does pre-K work for the school district. She works 30 hours per week, it’s a great setup for the family.  

I just got my bonus for 2017, which wasn’t the best year for us.   My bonus was equal to a full year of pay for my wife. 

You know better. 

My father is a retired teacher. He's 91. He has collected a pension for more years than he worked. His direct pension payment checks so far total $1.7 million. For not working. 

Additionally, he has received astounding medical benefits the entire time. 

And he never worked summers.  Etc. 

He's had a terrific life with minimal stress and has had the opportunity to influence hundreds of kids positively. Involved in the community, traveled a lot, advanced degree educational benefits. 

Yes, he worked for a good school system, and it's not that way for everyone. But the entire package for teachers is really pretty good overall. 

Back on topic... 

I'm not saying the media doesn't play a large role here (glorifying violence, giving these perps their 15 minutes of notoriety, constantly bombarding people with an "ideal" image of what normal is even though that is often far from reality), but I don't think it's fear that is fueling these shooters. A psychological profile of these guys is developing, and they tend to be angry at the world. They resent society as a whole for the fact that they don't quite fit in. They feel as if they're the victims, and their actions are justified. They lash out due to rage, or to fulfill a desire to feel powerful, or respected, or in control because they're not getting that in their lives.

In reply to SVreX :

My wife isn’t eligible for those benefits.  Would be nice. But not us. She has $0 in retirement savings.  I’ve been saving for the both of us since day 1. 

STM317 said:

I'm not saying the media doesn't play a large role here (glorifying violence, giving these perps their 15 minutes of notoriety, constantly bombarding people with an "ideal" image of what normal is even though that is often far from reality), but I don't think it's fear that is fueling these shooters. A psychological profile of these guys is developing, and they tend to be angry at the world. They resent society as a whole for the fact that they don't quite fit in. They feel as if they're the victims, and their actions are justified. They lash out due to rage, or to fulfill a desire to feel powerful, or respected, or in control because they're not getting that in their lives.

There is a lot of that in today's world and a lot of it can be traced back to the internet and social media.  All I have to do is read the comments on news articles or YouTube videos and I wonder about the future of humanity.  Hate, divisiveness, false information, bullying, etc. is out there for 24 hour a day consumption and I'm talking about from all sides of the social and political spectrum.

People have always been bullied and grade school is a vicious environment already but away from school kids had an opportunity to hopefully decompress.  Now, the bullying is online and a single Facebook post can ruin a kids whole year with ridicule that three quarters of the school sees.

In reply to mapper :

Right, but most kids that are bullied don't shoot up a school or a church. The percentage of shooters that have been bullied may be high, but the percentage of bullied kids that become shooters is very low. So there's a specific mindset at work here. As a parent or society on whole, if we can spot the mindset early enough and provide proper corrections or outlets for that energy then maybe these tragedies can be avoided.

The descriptor that stuck out to me in one of the psychology articles I linked was "injustice collector". These types tend to feel slighted at everything, and blame specific others, or society as a whole for many of their problems. Perhaps that outlook can be altered by a different parenting approach that allows the person to feel empowered to change their circumstances instead of feeling victimized constantly? Maybe we should let our kids fail from time to time and understand that they are responsible for the choices they make and many of the consequences that result?

Fueled by Caffeine said:

In reply to Robbie :

You have it backwards.  Advertisers only want people to watch.  People don't watch for the advertisements they watch for the content.  

Exactly. If people didn't watch, advertisers wouldn't pay for it. A polarized audience is a more captive audience, so the media is more inclined to play to what keeps their audience watching.  A polarized audience also tends to be an easier demographic to sell ads for.

I also agree with pheller's WW2 analogy.  Despite the fact the US has been at war for the past 17+ years, it is rather detached for many Americans. 

In reply to jmabarone :

So it’s 47% ?    How many of the ones who stay together are still in love?  A very small percentage indeed.  

How many times have you and your current wife been married?  While my marriage lasted 34 years  since then the average lady who responded to my Dating profile has 3 marriages under her belt. I’m not judging 

In a couple of cases, how do these young people obtain these weapons,  where do they get the funds ?

 Some how the parents messed up.    The Fla. shooter had all these weapons.  The care giver new it and it didn't raise an alarm ?

iceracer said:

In a couple of cases, how do these young people obtain these weapons,  where do they get the funds ?

 Some how the parents messed up.    The Fla. shooter had all these weapons.  The care giver new it and it didn't raise an alarm ?

ACTUALLY there were 39 alarms sounded in the last year. The school district and the local LEO screwed the pooch on this one. I can understand WHY they want to push to focus to evil black rifles and all. If I had been called 39 times, twice BY THE SHOOTER HIMSELF, pointing out that there is a crazy with a gun and chose to do nothing about it and then this type of tradgedy happens, I'm sure I'd find ANYWHERE to push the focus. 

This is such a terrible act. Knowing that this could have been stopped a year ago and the entire system (all of it, not one single thing in place to stop this was used correctly) failed just makes this worse for me. Two of these last shooters SHOULD have been on the NICS list of non-eligible buyers, but both were missed. If I was a conspiracy nut, this would be too good to be true. Sadly, it's just a system that isn't being correctly utilized. Whether it's for political gain (Florida) or just human error (Texas) its terrible. 

We evolved from animals that didn't die because they watched the dangers very carefully. That might mean we "want it" but that doesn't necessarily mean we want to want it Or that it's good for our society at all. The media (and politicians) are Very aware that it's what they're doing and they are causing pretty huge societal problems. They also are causing people to subconsciously feel unsafe a large portion of the time (all the data supports this), this has psychological effects on people (particularly unstable people). They demonize and dehumanize people they disagree with constantly. They are deliberately making an effort for people to see each other as "others" ( this makes killing them much easier). It capitalizes on a disgust response that we evolved to have to protect us from infections (native americans didn't make out so well for instance) that we hadn't developed antibodies to protect us from as well as to protect from being conquered and murdered by other tribes. We are products of evolution. 

When people are completely depressed and lost, they feel abandoned by society, by the universe, and this is what they're seeing in politics and on the media. They see these people as not people but some sort of deplorable others, bad, bad E36 M3 happens. Don't tell people they're victims who are in danger all the time. And can't win because the game is rigged. Don't tell people that people who are winning are evil cheaters. Don't tell them that the people in the society they live in are worthless and evil, don't tell them that people that "identify" (or You identify) as something different, Are so different. This solidifies the parts of our brains that make extermination of them ok.

They want us divided, it makes us weak, keeps us distracted.

It's not by mistake. 

Berkley, now I'm gonna be on some list. 

In reply to Carbon :

Well said!

Carbon said:

And can't win because the game is rigged. Don't tell people that people who are winning are evil cheaters.

These are mostly true though. The cost of censoring these messages would be allowing the exploitation to continue, making society objectively and measurably worse.