Second chances and Drug Addiction...

I just learned that someone close to me, “Pat” has secretly been back with an ex, “Alex” for about a year now. Alex had abused Pat, emotionally and physically. We later learned that Alex was going through drug addiction, with heroin—according to Pat, all of the abuse took place after the drug addiction started. Alex hit rock bottom and came asking for help to get clean. Alex’s parents and Pat took Alex to rehab. Shortly after he came out of rehab, Alex and Pat apparently got back together. Alex has been clean, sober, and not on anything stronger than ibuprofen for over a year now.

Pat has asked me to basically support the relationship. I’m having trouble with this. If it was alcohol, fine. Even cocaine I’d be able to support it. But heroin… I can forgive the abuse, as a drug addiction changes everything. It is cunning and powerful. I can even forgive Alex for getting addicted in the first place; it is my understanding that it started with a legitimate Codeine (or other opiate) prescription for a sports injury. Alex has done all the right things, has taken responsibility for [his or her] mistakes and faults, and apologized to everyone. I support Alex and [his or her] commitment to get and remain clean and sober. I just don’t know if I support Alex dating Pat. But the fact that it was Heroin scares me—I knew people who hadn’t touched the stuff for 30 years, then one day found it and got addicted again. Threw an entire career and family away. It is that that is scaring me.

Anyone have any experience with situations similar to this? I feel bad for not supporting the relationship—I consider myself a Christian, and if Jesus taught us one thing it is to forgive—and yet here I am unable to do that.

Oh, and I know that Pat is an adult and able to make decisions. It really doesn’t matter what I think. This is mostly for my own ability to come to terms with the relationship.

If you were Alex, what would you want?

Im 13 years in. There are a handful of people that still haven't forgiven my actions and still think the worst of me.

I can't blame them. Nothing can make up for some of the stuff that I did.

Im only one drink away from going back out there myself.

You are entitled to how you think and feel about the situation. If alex is working a good program with a good sponsor, he'll understand.

What does "supporting the relationship" entail?

What does Pat expect from you? Just a verbal recognition and approval?

The drug addiction is one thing. It can be excused by starting with prescription and snowballing in to heroin. It's happened a thousand times. I would have a hard time overlooking the abuse part. I don't think I would ever be able to justify that, drug induced or not, and support a relationship after that has happened.

I believe in second chances, from your post it sounds like Alex wants to recover and needs support from Pat as the road for people recovering from this is very long and only one wrong turn away from failure.

I would support them as best I could but would keep this matter in the back of my mind, just in case.

Paul B

Look at it this way, the only thing that makes it easier for an ex-heroin-addict to get re-addicted to heroin than for a person who's never been addicted to become an addict, is that the ex-addict has a better idea where to get the stuff...

Why spend time with someone you have to constantly worry about when there are so many other people out there to date?

Seems like Alex could use all of the support they can get. I'm not an addiction expert, but I've had my share of experience dealing with recovering addicts. Seems like feeling welcomed and appreciated by family and friends could go a long way, whereas being ostracized might encourage destructive behavior. Ultimately, it's up to the addict to stay clean and sober, but outside influence (either positive or negative) can be a powerful thing. I'd encourage you to be a positive influence to the best of your ability. If it goes south, your loyalty lies with Pat, but until then you might as well be supportive so long as Pat is happy and the relationship seems healthy.

STM317 wrote: Seems like Alex could use all of the support they can get. I'm not an addiction expert, but I've had my share of experience dealing with recovering addicts. Seems like feeling welcomed and appreciated by family and friends could go a long way, whereas being ostracized might encourage destructive behavior. Ultimately, it's up to the addict to stay clean and sober, but outside influence (either positive or negative) can be a powerful thing. I'd encourage you to be a positive influence to the best of your ability. If it goes south, your loyalty lies with Pat, but until then you might as well be supportive so long as Pat is happy and the relationship seems healthy.

Couldn't have said it better myself.

With addiction, it is more the addiction than the particular drug, whether it is booze, meth, crack or heroin. Sounds to me like Pat is an adult and can make her own decisions. They say love is blind. It is pretty stupid and irrational too. I understand the reluctance, but if it is what she wants, the best you can do is support her as well as you can. You are not supporting Alex, you are supporting Pat. Keep a sharp eye out for signs of trouble, and step in if you feel the need. If it were my friend/family, that is how I would try to handle it.

That said, I would have a pretty short fuse for feeding Alex's junkie ass to the alligators though.

As someone whos spent there entire life around addicts i wouldnt be able to be happy for them. Ive seen way too many people fall right back into it. Seen people start familys then just decide its too stressful and end up right back at it. I prefer addicts stay far away from me.

You have no choice but to accept it. It's his and her life. They can do what they want. Since you are a Christian you know we live in a fallen, sinful world. It is what it is.

Pray for them.

Dusterbd13 wrote: Im 13 years in. There are a handful of people that still haven't forgiven my actions and still think the worst of me. I can't blame them. Nothing can make up for some of the stuff that I did. Im only one drink away from going back out there myself. You are entitled to how you think and feel about the situation. If alex is working a good program with a good sponsor, he'll understand.

But was this alcoholism? With alcohol, you can go on a bender and not leave the family in shambles. A single mistake would just be a mistake, assuming no DIU, there isn't much that can't be undone. With heroin, a single mistake could kill someone, leave a family penniless, and bring a lot of... bad things into the home.

You seem to be putting one addiction as worse than the other.

You don't have to be an alcoholic, to have a few too many, make a bad decision and end up with you and/or others dead. Same outcome, ruined lives.

Mtn- If you don't have an off button, one is never the end. Dont matter what it is.

One for me wouldn't be the last one until i was locked up, coverd up, or sobered up. Just the way it is for some of us.

z31maniac wrote: You seem to be putting one addiction as worse than the other. You don't have to be an alcoholic, to have a few too many, make a bad decision and end up with you and/or others dead. Same outcome, ruined lives.

You're right, I am--thats why I have this personal moral quandry. But the potential consequences of a heroin relapse are significantly worse than the potential consequences of an alcohol relapse if you take the driving out of it. And alcohol is not nearly as addictive as an opiate.

So many thoughts, and it's tough. You have to accept Pat's decision, even if you don't support it. I'm not sure what it would mean to "support" it.

I would put a big difference in how I felt about the addiction vs. the abuse. I can understand addiction. I've seen (and been on the receiving end) of people who get more overtly abusive when heavily under the influence of their particular drug. They were still manipulative and abusive even when not under the influence, it just became more subtle.

I think the very worst thing you can do is harbor secret anger towards Alex.

You should think about what it is about the situation that really bothers you. Figure out what of your concerns are legitimate and which aren't. I would sit down with Pat and discuss your genuine concerns with them. Perhaps even sit down with Alex and discuss your concerns. Do not be accusatory or judgmental (especially towards Alex directly). Air your concerns respectfully.

Something like "I know addiction is a medical condition. I appreciate that [you/Alex] are trying to get your life in order and do things right. The way [you/Alex] treated [Pat/you] back when you were using was wrong. I care about [Pat/you] and do not want to see that pattern start again. If I do see signs of abuse, I intend to call that out."

Addicts in recovery are often taught to take it one day at a time. Getting through a single day is much less daunting than getting through the rest of a lifetime, but those days all add up. Alex has managed to string together 365+ good days so far and that's a decent start.

What if you took a similar approach with your attitude for Alex? I think you're concerned about an eventual relapse, so you don't want to lend any support at all because it seems daunting and a bit scary to automatically support them forever. If you try supporting them one day at a time, and start to string days together maybe it will seem less scary?

^Great advice in these last two posts.

mtn wrote:

z31maniac wrote: You seem to be putting one addiction as worse than the other. You don't have to be an alcoholic, to have a few too many, make a bad decision and end up with you and/or others dead. Same outcome, ruined lives.

You're right, I am--thats why I have this personal moral quandry. But the potential consequences of a heroin relapse are significantly worse than the potential consequences of an alcohol relapse if you take the driving out of it. And alcohol is not nearly as addictive as an opiate.

Even without driving there are many potential dangers, get drunk get in a fight get knocked out, hit your head on the ground, bang in a coma and gone. Acute alcohol poisoning, etc.

I'm not saying you are incorrect to be concerned, I'm just saying being an addict, regardless of substance, is equally dangerous.

I really very strongly agree with the last two posts.

z31maniac wrote: ^Great advice in these last two posts.

mtn wrote:

z31maniac wrote: You seem to be putting one addiction as worse than the other. You don't have to be an alcoholic, to have a few too many, make a bad decision and end up with you and/or others dead. Same outcome, ruined lives.

You're right, I am--thats why I have this personal moral quandry. But the potential consequences of a heroin relapse are significantly worse than the potential consequences of an alcohol relapse if you take the driving out of it. And alcohol is not nearly as addictive as an opiate.

Even without driving there are many potential dangers, get drunk get in a fight get knocked out, hit your head on the ground, bang in a coma and gone. Acute alcohol poisoning, etc. I'm not saying you are incorrect to be concerned, I'm just saying being an addict, regardless of substance, is equally dangerous. I really very strongly agree with the last two posts.

I guess my big thing is that lets assume everything goes "right" with both. To get the alcohol, you go to the grocery store. To get the heroin, you meet with a criminal who could rat you out and ruin your life. Using the alcohol, you can get alcohol poisoning, you can get arrested for being drunk in public, etc. Using the heroin, you can get arrested and end up in a federal prison--even if you use a "responsible dose" and do nothing "wrong".

But I understand what you are saying. I'm just having a difficult time separating the illegal aspect of it--which is ironic, as I'd have no problem if the person smoked pot every day, which is just as illegal in the state in question.

.

Give him a second chance but not a third.

Dealers aren't ratting out their customers..........they are ratting out the suppliers that supply them to avoid jail time or easier sentencing.

In most parts of the country it's illegal to drink a beer on the sidewalk. I think I'd seriously look at what Beer Baron is saying and having some introspection. And I will leave it at that, I have more experience in everything you are concerned with than I care to admit on a public forum.

The old adage fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on Me comes to mind. I'm on the other end of it, I've never been an addict. I've had plenty of opportunity, and plenty of family history to do so, but...just never did. But i did go back to a potentially toxic relationship 20 years on after a horrendous marriage failure (which as time wears on, i am 95% certain had already failed before I had a chance to ruin it). I look at it like this. Addiction comes in many forms. Substance, gambling, co dependency, etc. In that effect, I am the one that went back to said addict. And like you, pretty much no one supported my decision. I don't blame them. This very person could have indirectly ended my life. There's no way to sugar coat that. On paper, it's a horseE36 M3 decision and I know it. And like this situation my "Alex" had gotten their ahit together, and off their addiction. (In this case, an abusive spouse).
But sometimes paper isn't the decider. I don't know Alex and pat or their proclivities. But i know enough about addiction and personal change to know that if Alex is trying, is clean, and is not Alex from before, maybe they mean it. And we're no one to judge pat for their choices. Pat may be what Alex needs to stay sober. Maybe not. But what won't help Alex or pat, is negativity and dissent. Alex is trying. Pat is letting them try. If you can't support it, at least understand it and let pat do pat. There's probably tons that no one knows about Alex and pat, aside from Alex and pat. You never know. This could be good in a lot more ways than just keeping Alex clean.

I am not an addiction expert, but I am a Christian, and feel like I might point something important out.

Jesus absolutely taught us to turn the other cheek and to forgive freely and quickly, as we have been forgiven for our own sins. We MUST forgive quickly, because we are forgiven quickly, and in a way that we cannot duplicate here. I tell my kids that if I forgive them for burning the house down, the house is still burnt down. When God forgives you, it's like the house never burnt down. It's pure and complete. We cannot do that, we have to try.

However!!! We do not have to put ourselves in a position to be wronged again, because we know people to be sinful and weak, just like we are.

I'm going to take the matches away from my kids after they burn down the house!

The perfect example of this is spousal abuse. Great Christian consoling tells us to tell the abused to forgive, but terrible advice is to tell the woman (presumably) to go back home with the guy that night. Forgiveness doesn't mean we forget and put ourselves into a position to be abused again. People have to earn back our trust, and it may be that that cannot happen, and that is okay! If someone abused my daughter as a young woman, I would probably never let that person earn back my trust unless it came along with something incredibly severe. I would forgive this hypothetical person eagerly, and pray for them unceasingly, but never just start trusting them again automatically. We cannot know their hearts! Look at the way that the disciples were hesitant to let Paul into their circle initially. They forgave him, but had to see a credible profession of faith to believe that it wasn't some concocted trick.

A lot of here are not Christian, and I am not trying to start a religious debate, but the OP specifically mentioned that, so I wanted to point out this simple, and often overlooked fact of scripture.

We are called to forgive quickly.

We are never called to place ourselves in a position to be abused further.

We are never called to instantly forget the sinful tendencies of people around us.

Not going to go in to my story but the short answer is no you have no obligations to forgive or accept anything. As the friend or family we have been hurt mentally or worse due to the actions of another. Things will never be the same and that is offen what they are looking for. Well f them. You need to look out for you first and if supporting or forgiving is going to cause you even the remotest bit of pain you absolutely should move on from the situation. Let them sort it out. If they can not accept it they still need help as they don't fully understand the pain they have caused others and are instead thinking of them self and not you.

I know others will completely disagree with me but they have not walked in my shoes so I just don't care what the touchey feeley people say and most have not had to accept the fact that it would be better if there child was dead and you resign your self to the fact that it is going to be the inevitable result of there actions no matter what you do.

I moved on. I served my time. I hurt so bad I can not even describe it. There is absolutely nothing that would make me have anything to do with that kind of potential situation again. I am not mad at them I just want nothing to do with that ever again.

You need to step back and think about this long and hard. You may not be liked by friends and family but that is not your problem. You need to do what is best for you and your family. People will say things like they need your support. I say fu. Who is going to support me/you. People are quick to forget your pain and suffering. The outsiders looking in are quick to pass judgment in these situations. Be nice but stand strong. If they don't get I to bad.