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poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
10/10/12 12:58 p.m.

Supreme Court looks at Affirmative Action in College admissions:

The New York Times said: WASHINGTON — The Supreme Court on Wednesday heard arguments in a major affirmative action case, with the justices debating the nature and value of diversity in higher education and the role of the courts in policing how much weight admissions officers may assign to race. The questioning was exceptionally sharp, but the member of the court who probably holds the decisive vote, Justice Anthony M. Kennedy, tipped his hand only a little, asking a few questions that indicated discomfort with at least some race-conscious admissions programs. He told a lawyer for the University of Texas at Austin, which was challenged over its policies, that he was uncomfortable with its efforts to attract privileged minorities. “What you’re saying,” Justice Kennedy said, “is what counts is race above all.” He asked a lawyer for Abigail Fisher, a white woman who was denied admission to the university, whether the modest racial preferences used by the university crossed a constitutional line. Then he proposed an answer to his own question. “Are you saying that you shouldn’t impose this hurt, this injury, for so little benefit?” he asked. Justice Sonia Sotomayor summarized the central question in the case. “At what point — when — do we stop deferring to the university’s judgment that race is still necessary?” she asked. “That’s the bottom line of this case.” The last time the Supreme Court heard a major affirmative action case about admission to public universities, in April 2003, Justice Sandra Day O’Connor was at the court’s ideological center. And it was she who wrote the majority opinion in the court’s 5-to-4 ruling allowing race to be considered in admission decisions, as one factor among many. Now all eyes are on Justice Kennedy, who dissented in the 2003 decision, Grutter v. Bollinger. More important, he has never voted to uphold an affirmative action program. There is thus reason to think the earlier decision is in peril. On the other hand, Justice Kennedy has occasionally parted ways with the more categorical approach of the court’s four-member conservative wing, and has indicated that some modestly race-conscious programs may pass constitutional muster. The parties in the new case, Fisher v. University of Texas, No. 11-345, certainly seem to believe they must have Justice Kennedy’s vote to win. They each cited him by name about 20 times each in their main briefs. Justice O’Connor, who retired in 2006, wrote in the Grutter decision in 2003 that she expected it to stand for 25 years. Changes in the court’s personnel since then, notably her replacement by Justice Samuel A. Alito Jr., may speed up that timetable. “I know that time flies,” Justice Stephen G. Breyer said on Wednesday, “but only nine of those years have passed.” Ms. Fisher, 22, recently graduated from Louisiana State University and works as a financial analyst in Austin, Tex. Her lawyer, Bert W. Rein, was questioned closely by the more liberal justices about whether she suffered the sort of injury that gives her standing to sue. They also pressed the point that the Texas program is very similar to the one endorsed in Grutter. “It seems to me that this program is no more aggressive than the one in Grutter,” Justice Ruth Bader Ginsburg said. “In fact, it’s more modest.” Three-quarters of applicants from Texas are admitted under a program that guarantees admission to the top students in every high school in the state. That program is not directly at issue in the case. Students from Texas who missed the cutoff, like Ms. Fisher, and those from elsewhere are considered under standards that take account of academic achievement and other factors, including race and ethnicity. The case concerns that second aspect of the admissions program. The Supreme Court has four basic options. It could decline to decide the central issue in the case at all if it credits the university’s argument that Ms. Fisher did not suffer the sort of injury that gives a plaintiff standing to sue. It could uphold the Texas program as constitutional. It could say that race-conscious admissions may not be used where race-neutral ones, like the one used to select the bulk of the class in Texas, have produced substantial diversity. Or it could overrule Grutter and say race may not be used in admissions decisions at all. A decision forbidding the use of race at public universities would almost certainly mean that it would be barred at most private ones as well under Title VI of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, which forbids racial discrimination in programs that receive federal money. Justice Elena Kagan has disqualified herself, presumably because she had worked on the case as solicitor general. That leaves open the possibility of a 4-to-4 tie, which would have the effect of affirming a lower-court decision upholding the Texas program. Justice Sotomayor told Mr. Rein that she sensed an agenda. “You don’t want us to overrule Grutter,” she said. “You want us to gut it.”

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/10/11/us/a-changed-court-revisits-affirmative-action-in-college-admissions.html

I wonder if it's necessary for Kagan to recuse herself.

yamaha
yamaha Dork
10/10/12 1:12 p.m.

Yes, I applaud that some people still have ethics. She should, its a conflict of interest.

aircooled
aircooled PowerDork
10/10/12 1:14 p.m.

Hey, look at that thing partially buried in the ground.

What is it?

I don't know, its round, has little plunger you can step on and it says "politics" on it.

Probably best not to step on it.

93EXCivic
93EXCivic MegaDork
10/10/12 1:19 p.m.

I hear a concrete mixer starting up.

ransom
ransom SuperDork
10/10/12 1:23 p.m.
93EXCivic wrote: I hear a concrete mixer starting up.

Oo! Can I borrow it? I mixed 1400 pounds of concrete in a wheelbarrow after work yesterday, and I have to do the same thing again one more time before the garage is done...

I dug the footings twice as deep as they needed to be by mistake. I wonder if gambling on the structural integrity of forum members would be worth a lifetime GRM subscription...

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
10/10/12 1:38 p.m.

Wow. I don't see how this has anything to do with politics. (???)

bravenrace
bravenrace PowerDork
10/10/12 1:51 p.m.

In reply to poopshovel:

It may or may not. But I've seen threads that started with the topic of cars turn into political discussions. This one seems to have a head start.

ransom
ransom SuperDork
10/10/12 1:55 p.m.

In reply to poopshovel:

I just have concrete on the brain and couldn't leave that direction alone...

DaveEstey
DaveEstey Dork
10/10/12 2:01 p.m.

I don't see how affirmative action isn't considered racist.

Any decision that is based on the ethnicity of an individual is racist, whether its positive or negative.

aussiesmg
aussiesmg UltimaDork
10/10/12 2:10 p.m.

Hurrumph muff phraft

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
10/10/12 2:20 p.m.

Stir that pot!

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
10/10/12 2:39 p.m.

Jesus Christ. Forget it. Mods - I'm flagging myself as I guess this is somehow political in nature.

1988RedT2
1988RedT2 UltraDork
10/10/12 3:04 p.m.

Life is, in fact, political in nature. Rave on, good people.

Capt Slow
Capt Slow Dork
10/10/12 3:21 p.m.

sure, nothing political about the supreme court....

carguy123
carguy123 PowerDork
10/10/12 4:31 p.m.

File this under "It's about time!"

It's like many things that sound good, but don't work out exactly as you planned.

The mere fact that this exists is racist. Racist is using race as a deciding factor whether for good or for evil. Only who's to say what is good and what is evil?

Who's to guard the guardian?

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
10/10/12 7:23 p.m.
Capt Slow wrote: sure, nothing political about the supreme court....

Is there anything political about going to court for a DUI? I'm not questioning Obama's selection in justices. I'm bringing up an interesting current event for which a new legal precedent may be set. I've already tattled on myself. Let it die, smartass berkeleytards.

SVreX
SVreX MegaDork
10/10/12 7:39 p.m.

Poopshovel for Presi.... Oh wait. That would be political.

Surely you understand, Poopie that discussion of substance or newsworthy items may no longer be discussed, right?

Since "pooper scooper" laws exist in many states, it is obvious that a poop shovel is a political device. Surely there are 2 diametrically opposed sides to any discussion involving a poop shovel. Therefore, I vote we ban Poopshovel from all discussions! Oh wait.... voting would be political too.

carguy123
carguy123 PowerDork
10/10/12 8:53 p.m.
SVreX wrote: Poopshovel for Presi.... Oh wait. That would be political. Surely you understand, Poopie that discussion of substance or newsworthy items may no longer be discussed, right? Since "pooper scooper" laws exist in many states, it is obvious that a poop shovel is a political device. Surely there are 2 diametrically opposed sides to any discussion involving a poop shovel. Therefore, I vote we ban Poopshovel from all discussions! Oh wait.... voting would be political too.

You are being facetious, but therein is the real problem.

Marjorie Suddard
Marjorie Suddard General Manager
10/10/12 10:28 p.m.

I applaud your need to discuss politically sensitive topics... nay, would rush to meet you on a level playing field. Alas, not only is this field not level, but I, like my predecessors from the Chik -FIL-A tribe, would find woe in a frank and detailed discussion of political views.

In other words, on another forum, at another's party where I don't have to pick up the trash, I'd love to discuss this. Can't here. And given the recent ugly history of political threads - your work, not mine, guys - I would ask that you respect further the reasoning behind our "no politics" rule.

Besides, aren't you tired of always using the same tactics when you need to parade your "not enough hugs from mommy" histories with attention-seeking behavior?

Margie

Strizzo
Strizzo UberDork
10/11/12 8:30 a.m.

this is not something new at UT, they tried to use race in admissions to make sure they were accepting a properly diverse group of students (no word on what the demographics were of the students that actually came to the university or that actually graduated) then they came up with the plan that any student that graduates in the top 10% of their high school class in texas is automatically accepted to any state school. then, i think there was a decision from Michigan that said that a student was somehow not accepted because they were a minority and michigan wasn't acccepting enough minorities, apparently due to not considering race in admissions, so then they said race could be considered in order to have enough diversity.

so then UT started using race as consideration in admissions, then this lady sued the university because she didn't get accepted, presumably because she is not a minority and wasn't accepted. Defense's argument was pretty pathetic at first, because she had already gone to another school and graduated by the time this got to trial, that she wasn't negatively affected by being rejected, since she ended up going to LSU and being OK. sounds like they're still kinda arguing that here.

anyways, welcome to the complexities of major university admissions. personally, i wasn't top 10%, didn't have that great of grades, and i got into UT. whatever the "system" is, they should set it, and leave it alone. then you know what the deal is, the last 10 years they've changed the admissions procedure almost every year it seems, so each year of applicants has a different set of criteria that they are being checked against.

4cylndrfury
4cylndrfury UltimaDork
10/11/12 9:07 a.m.

In reply to Strizzo:

AngryCorvair
AngryCorvair PowerDork
10/11/12 9:46 a.m.
Marjorie Suddard wrote: Besides, aren't you tired of always using the same tactics when you need to parade your "not enough hugs from mommy" histories with attention-seeking behavior? Margie

Oh SNAP!

poopshovel
poopshovel UltimaDork
10/11/12 10:04 a.m.

In for surrogate mommy hugs.

Curmudgeon
Curmudgeon MegaDork
10/11/12 12:10 p.m.

I guess I need to have a sit down with my mommy when she gets back from her trip to the Mideast.

aircooled
aircooled PowerDork
10/11/12 12:30 p.m.

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