Duke wrote:novaderrik wrote: i stand by my opinion that insurance is evil.. as are banks..And I stand by my opinion that you don't truly understand the concept of how either one works. Good day, sir.
I still don't understand why spreading risk around - as insurance does and has always been intended to do - is evil. Evil is an intentionally malicious thing. It's baffling to claim that risk reduction is malicious.
I said good day!
dculberson wrote: I still don't understand why spreading risk around - as insurance does and has always been intended to do - is evil. Evil is an intentionally malicious thing. It's baffling to claim that risk reduction is malicious.
Especially since it seems immensely popular when imposed on a non-voluntary basis by the federal government. People can't vote for that fast enough! Yet it's an evilly vicious system when people have a choice about how they interact with it. 
Makes no sense to me. Non-voluntary taxes are not evil, but voluntary insurance premiums that I can shop for are somehow...?
Smells like flounder in dis bitch.
93EXCivic wrote: Smells like flounder in dis bitch.
Sorry.
novaderrik wrote: i stand by my opinion that insurance is evil.. as are banks..
Then don't use them.
novaderrik wrote:iceracer wrote: Insurance is evil until you need it. Replaced my windhield after a rock hit it. Paid for the fender etc for a guy I backed into. No repercussions at all. I have Farmers through a local agent. anytime I have a question, they are very helpful.look back over the years, count up the thousands of dollars you paid them without ever making a claim.. how much did that windshield and fender actually cost you?
Directly nothing.
Your point is valid and these were fairly small items but insurnace is for the just in case. And consversly, If some one destroys my car, I am covered by their insurance. Or my collision.
novaderrik wrote:Duke wrote: Let's do some simple math here: I've lived in my house for 20 years. During that time, I have paid, on average, $600 per year for pretty good homeowner's insurance. That's a grand total of $12,000. If my house blew away tonight, State Farm would cut me a check for approximately $250,000 - replacement value, plus an allowance to replace general contents, plus special coverage for computer equipment, jewelry, and some other valuables. $250,000 - $12,000 = $238,000. Where does money to make up that shortfall come from? The goodness of State Farm's heart? Directly out of the CEO's bonus pay? Thin air?a good chunk of it comes from all the people that didn't buy houses in places that are prone to having them blown away. State Farm almost doubled the cost of my homeowner's insurance back in '03 because a hurricane ripped thru Florida in '02. they said it was to cover "inflation", but they started talking about it right after the storm, which was unlikely to be a coincidence... i live in MN, where hurricanes are an extremely rare phenomenon.. i was pissed, but i needed to have it insured because Wells Fargo said so, and it was cheaper to stay with them than to switch to someone else. Wells Fargo also made me have $200k worth of coverage on a house that i owed $103k on and was worth $145k.. i stand by my opinion that insurance is evil.. as are banks..
i'd hazard a guess that your house is around 2k square feet and built 30-40 years ago, right? the reason the bank wants you to have 200k in coverage is because even though you paid 145 and only owe 103, it would cost 200k to rebuild your house if it were to burn to the ground tomorrow (or back then). some companies will sell you coverage based on the current value of the home, but what will happen is that 100k policy on a 1800 sf house (average minimum build cost is around 100/foot) will cost you 180k to rebuild, but the insurance company will only give you 100k, and you're left holding the bag for the rest. not because the insurance company is evil but because you wanted to save 40 bucks a month on your insurance. what the bank is really doing there is protecting you (and subsequently their money that you borrowed) from your own stupidity.
Strizzo wrote:novaderrik wrote:i'd hazard a guess that your house is around 2k square feet and built 30-40 years ago, right? the reason the bank wants you to have 200k in coverage is because even though you paid 145 and only owe 103, it would cost 200k to rebuild your house if it were to burn to the ground tomorrow (or back then). some companies will sell you coverage based on the current value of the home, but what will happen is that 100k policy on a 1800 sf house (average minimum build cost is around 100/foot) will cost you 180k to rebuild, but the insurance company will only give you 100k, and you're left holding the bag for the rest. not because the insurance company is evil but because you wanted to save 40 bucks a month on your insurance. what the bank is really doing there is protecting you (and subsequently their money that you borrowed) from your own stupidity.Duke wrote: Let's do some simple math here: I've lived in my house for 20 years. During that time, I have paid, on average, $600 per year for pretty good homeowner's insurance. That's a grand total of $12,000. If my house blew away tonight, State Farm would cut me a check for approximately $250,000 - replacement value, plus an allowance to replace general contents, plus special coverage for computer equipment, jewelry, and some other valuables. $250,000 - $12,000 = $238,000. Where does money to make up that shortfall come from? The goodness of State Farm's heart? Directly out of the CEO's bonus pay? Thin air?a good chunk of it comes from all the people that didn't buy houses in places that are prone to having them blown away. State Farm almost doubled the cost of my homeowner's insurance back in '03 because a hurricane ripped thru Florida in '02. they said it was to cover "inflation", but they started talking about it right after the storm, which was unlikely to be a coincidence... i live in MN, where hurricanes are an extremely rare phenomenon.. i was pissed, but i needed to have it insured because Wells Fargo said so, and it was cheaper to stay with them than to switch to someone else. Wells Fargo also made me have $200k worth of coverage on a house that i owed $103k on and was worth $145k.. i stand by my opinion that insurance is evil.. as are banks..
that house was 660 square feet built in 1948, with a 26X48 semi insulated pole shed that was built sometime in the 70's sitting on a nice square acre of land that was carved out of a hay field when the house was built.. the whole property is what was worth $145k and i owed $103k on.. they were operating on the (mistaken) assumption that i would have wanted to build a McMansion there if the original house burnt down, but honestly that house was just the right size for what i needed (a place to sleep when i wasn't at work or playing on my cars in the shed) and i would have just plopped a $50k modular on a $20k basement, hooked it up to the 5 year old well and septic, and called it good.. but i haven't lived there since the fall of '05 so i guess it doesn't matter...
just for the record- i'm not against the idea or purpose of insurance, banks, or lawyers- just the way those ideas are executed and most of the people that are associated with them. because of my past dealings with them, i keep my exposure to them as minimal as possible.
Duke wrote:93EXCivic wrote: Smells like flounder in dis bitch.Sorry.
we're gonna be making the machine to staple those little trees together next month.. so when you buy a 10 tree variety pack next summer, you can tell yourself that you know of a guy on teh internets that made parts for the machine that put that 10 tree variety pack together..
I have SF and they are okay...It's been a rollercoaster with them. They have paid up in the two accidents I've had, but it was a 12 round bout trying to get them to pay up to the proper amounts that should be due to me. Then one Christmas my brother, my sister, and I all came home. Every single car was broken into two nights before christmas and thousands of dollars in damages and stolen items. Our State Farm agent tells us to file our "Scam for Holiday cash under our homeowners insurance." I'm really surprised my parents didn't drop them at that second.
Are they evil? Possibly. Are they obnoxious and retarded? Def. You pay all this money to them and you miss a payment and the world is ending on their part. Something happens to you and it's time to pay up and you're on their accord.
novaderrik wrote: look back over the years, count up the thousands of dollars you paid them without ever making a claim.. how much did that windshield and fender actually cost you?
With all due respect, I think this shows the vast misunderstanding about insurance. If I had a nickle for every time I heard that, I'd be driving an E36 M3 right now. 
Auto insurance is not a bank where you deposit money and are "owed" all that money back at some point You are paying for a service, namely protection against risk. If you never "use" the service, you aren't entitled to get the money. If you buy a house alarm and pay a monitoring service, do you demand your money back if you never have a burglary? If you do have an accident, you're paid what you're owed for the damages, not the premium you've paid.
As has been argued here, your premium is peanuts compared to the cost of a bad accident. I always find it strange that people scream about paying $1500/year premium, but if they have a bad accident want the insurance company to pay $40k for their car and get an attorney to try to collect $100k for their "pain and suffering".
In reply to Klayfish:
It's perception. Dirtybird222 hit the nail on the head. You pay and pay and pay some more, but when it's time to collect, it's the perverbial fickle finger of fate telling you are #1 in not a nice way. Sure there are scammers out there but does that mean it should take weeks to months to get claims settled? What I have seen is it is fast to estimate loss but forever to pay on the loss. Right now, I am having an ongoing battle with the worthless lot lizard insurance company to get my MIL's Impala fixed PROPERLY. Sad part is that the difference is over a bumper cover not even costing a C note in difference and fit and finish is 1000% better.
DirtyBird222 wrote: I have SF and they are okay...It's been a rollercoaster with them. They have paid up in the two accidents I've had, but it was a 12 round bout trying to get them to pay up to the proper amounts that should be due to me. Then one Christmas my brother, my sister, and I all came home. Every single car was broken into two nights before christmas and thousands of dollars in damages and stolen items. Our State Farm agent tells us to file our "Scam for Holiday cash under our homeowners insurance." I'm really surprised my parents didn't drop them at that second. Are they evil? Possibly. Are they obnoxious and retarded? Def. You pay all this money to them and you miss a payment and the world is ending on their part. Something happens to you and it's time to pay up and you're on their accord.
How is USAA not cheaper for you? They're certainly nicer to deal with.
Osterkraut wrote:DirtyBird222 wrote: I have SF and they are okay...It's been a rollercoaster with them. They have paid up in the two accidents I've had, but it was a 12 round bout trying to get them to pay up to the proper amounts that should be due to me. Then one Christmas my brother, my sister, and I all came home. Every single car was broken into two nights before christmas and thousands of dollars in damages and stolen items. Our State Farm agent tells us to file our "Scam for Holiday cash under our homeowners insurance." I'm really surprised my parents didn't drop them at that second. Are they evil? Possibly. Are they obnoxious and retarded? Def. You pay all this money to them and you miss a payment and the world is ending on their part. Something happens to you and it's time to pay up and you're on their accord.How is USAA not cheaper for you? They're certainly nicer to deal with.
We just left USAA for SF because USAA was such a pain to deal with and SF was a bunch cheaper. SF gets pretty reasonable when you start insuring a bunch of stuff. We have 4 cars, a boat and two houses with them now. Saved a little over $300 a year by changing.
Go figure.
Toyman01 wrote:Osterkraut wrote:We just left USAA for SF because USAA was such a pain to deal with and SF was a bunch cheaper. SF gets pretty reasonable when you start insuring a bunch of stuff. We have 4 cars, a boat and two houses with them now. Saved a little over $300 a year by changing. Go figure.DirtyBird222 wrote: I have SF and they are okay...It's been a rollercoaster with them. They have paid up in the two accidents I've had, but it was a 12 round bout trying to get them to pay up to the proper amounts that should be due to me. Then one Christmas my brother, my sister, and I all came home. Every single car was broken into two nights before christmas and thousands of dollars in damages and stolen items. Our State Farm agent tells us to file our "Scam for Holiday cash under our homeowners insurance." I'm really surprised my parents didn't drop them at that second. Are they evil? Possibly. Are they obnoxious and retarded? Def. You pay all this money to them and you miss a payment and the world is ending on their part. Something happens to you and it's time to pay up and you're on their accord.How is USAA not cheaper for you? They're certainly nicer to deal with.
USAA is nearly double SF for me as well, for identical policies. 
My brother was a regional manager for a large ins co for many years. As was pointed out earlier, premiums very seldom will cover the cost of claims. Where they make it up is in their investing the money. If you delay paying on 10,000 claims for one month the return on investment can be huge. Not the nicest way to play the game and imho not really ethical but that's how they play the game.
Klayfish wrote:novaderrik wrote: look back over the years, count up the thousands of dollars you paid them without ever making a claim.. how much did that windshield and fender actually cost you?With all due respect, I think this shows the vast misunderstanding about insurance. If I had a nickle for every time I heard that, I'd be driving an E36 M3 right now.
i understand how it works and the purpose behind it, and i still believe it's the biggest scam we have going right now- they have brainwashed people into thinking that they are getting something for free when their insurance company actually has to pay them for something.
actually, that's why i think it's the biggest scam we have going now.
if i give an insurance company tens of thousands of dollars over a period of years and only ever get a $100 windshield replaced, then that windshield has cost me tens of thousands of dollars spread out over a period of years.. but i won't ever get a windshield replaced by my insurance, because i don't pay extra for that kind of coverage.. the money i save by not paying those premiums over years and years more than pays for a windshield- and since i've never, ever replaced a windshield in anything in my 25 years of playing with cars, i'm definitely money ahead by not carrying that coverage. but if i do ever need one, that $100 paid out of pocket is a small price to pay for saving many times that over the years.
Don49 wrote: My brother was a regional manager for a large ins co for many years. As was pointed out earlier, premiums very seldom will cover the cost of claims. Where they make it up is in their investing the money. If you delay paying on 10,000 claims for one month the return on investment can be huge. Not the nicest way to play the game and imho not really ethical but that's how they play the game.
and that's what it is to them- a game. a game where the company that makes the biggest quarterly profit and pays out the biggest dividends is the winner. but to the people that need that money to make things right, it's not a game- it's life.
novaderrik wrote: and that's what it is to them- a game. a game where the company that makes the biggest quarterly profit and pays out the biggest dividends is the winner. but to the people that need that money to make things right, it's not a game- it's life.
I think they call that game business .
Zomby Woof wrote:novaderrik wrote: and that's what it is to them- a game. a game where the company that makes the biggest quarterly profit and pays out the biggest dividends is the winner. but to the people that need that money to make things right, it's not a game- it's life.I think they call that game business .
not necessarily.. it's perfectly possible to make a decent enough profit without trying to make the MOST profit at the expense of the people that make that profit possible.
In reply to novaderrik:
You keep trying to prove insurance is a scam by showing how much it costs and how little it pays.
Duh.
You are not buying a windshield when you buy insurance. In fact, you are not buying a product at all. You are buying a service to protect you if you have a catastrophe that you are unable to pay for. The best type of insurance is insurance you NEVER collect on. What's the return on that? Peace of mind.
I have had active insurance policies of one form or another for over 40 years. Never had a claim. Ever. I have no problem with that. It's not a waste of money, or a scam. I got exactly what I paid for, and am glad I did. If I could, I would buy more.
Like I said earlier, you are welcome to do without insurance or banks if you so choose.
i don't like spending money when all i'm buying is peace of mind.. i prefer tangible things. i'm funny like that. the state makes me have insurance on my car so that i can drive it- so i do. State Farm actually gives me a big enough discount on my car insurance by lumping renter's insurance in with it that it's actually cheaper to get it than not to get it- so i do. the health insurance i buy thru work actually somehow lowers my tax liability by just enough to get me a couple of extra dollars on my paycheck every week, so i get it.. that's my total exposure to the insurance industry, and that's just fine with me..
now if MN would just get rid of the stupid mandatory car insurance law, i'd be a happy camper..
novaderrik wrote: now if MN would just get rid of the stupid mandatory car insurance law, i'd be a happy camper..
Until some uninsured drunk runs a stop sign and T-bones you putting you in the hospital for 10 days.
BTDT and was very happy I had insurance.
novaderrik wrote: i don't like spending money when all i'm buying is peace of mind.. i prefer tangible things. i'm funny like that. the state makes me have insurance on my car so that i can drive it- so i do. State Farm actually gives me a big enough discount on my car insurance by lumping renter's insurance in with it that it's actually cheaper to get it than not to get it- so i do. the health insurance i buy thru work actually somehow lowers my tax liability by just enough to get me a couple of extra dollars on my paycheck every week, so i get it.. that's my total exposure to the insurance industry, and that's just fine with me.. now if MN would just get rid of the stupid mandatory car insurance law, i'd be a happy camper..
So I suspect you have at least $100k in the bank ready to pay out an incident?
If so, then self-insure. You are allowed to do that if you can show you have state minimum liability requirements in liquid assets.
You'll need to log in to post.
