Target Schwinn, why not?

the prices for decent used bikes are ridiculous here (like they want what they paid new MSRP) and the fact I am huge is almost completely ruling out that option.

Looking at bikes direct. Any thoughts?

Flight Service wrote: I see the same crap SR Suntour shocks on $1000 bikes from the bike store. And yes they are crap.

I don't believe this. A $1000 bike is going to have a MUCH better fork on it.

As others have said, assembly is the big issue. I quit Dick's Sporting Goods a few years ago, where I worked as a bike tech. I fixed some HORRIBLE errors from other stores that ended up landing on me. I kept getting less and less time to actually do my job and then cut the cord. They've cut payroll WAY too much to expect a safely built bike at this point.

Bikes Direct is great. If you can put it together and adjust it yourself, great--otherwise, pay a shop $100 to do it.

gamby wrote: Bikes Direct is great. If you can put it together and adjust it yourself, great--otherwise, pay a shop $100 to do it.

I agree... as long as you know what sort of geo/sizing you need/want... unfortunately for many who buy from them this is not the case

as for CL... even in my huge market it's a waiting game for something my (our) size to pop up... although that reminds me that I need to get my 63cm klein frame up on CL to sell son haha... just didn't fit quite right and I can fit 32c tires on the 64cm trek... good when dealing with a bulbous shaped rider ;-)

gamby wrote:

Flight Service wrote: I see the same crap SR Suntour shocks on $1000 bikes from the bike store. And yes they are crap.

I don't believe this. A $1000 bike is going to have a MUCH better fork on it.

Believe what you want, visit my local bike stealership and check for yourself.

Does Hennessey of Woodstock run bike shops?

I know a few people who have bought frames/bikes from Nashbar house brand. They all seemed to like them and the component group was usually well selected for the price point. Alternatively you could buy a frame and build something with components to your desire as their frames are reasonable priced.

Let's run down some brands and get some pro/cons goning on

Schwinn

GT

Fuji

Raliegh

Motobecane

Specialized

Diamondback

Trek

Dawes

Windsor

Gravity

K2

I think that covers most popular brands and a few more obscure

I have had Trek and Raliegh, both were bicycles. Can't say much else, not impressed with either one but I wasn't disappointed either.

I really like Specialized bikes- I've owned a few and they've been great. HOWEVER- you're paying for the name. They're sort of the go-to for people who want to act like they're badass bikers- sorta like cocks and BMW's. Trek is the other big player in that field- they're about the same. Schwinn and GT have both gone bankrupt, Schwinn is now owned by Pacific, GT is.... I forget who owns GT. I haven't seen them in the box stores, so it can't be bad. Raliegh, K2 and Fuji seem to be roughly the same level from my observation, higher up the food chain than box store primo brands, not quite as solid as your top end big names. Not bad bikes for the casual rider, by any stretch. I quit following Diamondback when I wasn't allowed to have a Mike Dominguez as a kid, so I have no idea. Other names, I have no idea. If I were to buy a built bike again new(I've currently got an older Specialized Rockhopper bought new in 2005) I'd probably buy a Kona. I really like the feel of them. Truthfully- go to the LBS and sit on some. Even bikes advertised as the same geometry will "feel" different. My old Schwinn and my old Specialized were arguably the same bike fit wise, but the Specialized felt better. Hence buying another one. I tried Cannondales, Treks, Gary Fishers (now owned by Trek) and down the line, and bought the second Specialized. I got on a Kona shortly thereafter and was quite happy with it.

One of my friends got into cycling a couple years ago on a Target Schwinn MTB. After about 1000 miles of riding it nearly trouble free, he decided to get a Target Schwinn flat bar road bike. Combined they should be nearing 4000 miles. They did both need quite a bit of adjustment after purchase and both have had issues with spokes breaking. It was covered under warranty and Schwinn actually mailed him new wheels. My wife has one too, but from K-Mart. It doesn't have near the miles, but hasn't had any problems. The one thing I don't like about hers is that its a ladies frame and is a PITA to put on a bike rack. Also, the water bottle holder mounts are in a stupid place that gets really muddy.

I've had a number of mid range bikes from bike shops (Schwinn, Trek, Specialized, Cannondale) and haven't really had any issues there either. I think it mainly comes down to a quality assembly/adjustment. Beyond that its fancier parts and lighter weight.

Remember bikes are like computers. Dell sells you a computer, but intel made the processor, asus made the videocard with a chip from nvidia, corsair made the ramm, western digital made the hard drive, you get the idea. Trek makes the frame, Shimano makes a lot of the drivetrain, bontrager makes the tires/wheels, etc... A specialized bike also has shimano parts, same for giant, and so on. In the case of trek, they own bontrager (I think) but you get the idea. Shimano makes some parts on target bikes, too, but much lower end (usually means heavier) parts.

For the record GT is also owned by pacific cycles.

Rufledt wrote: For the record GT is also owned by pacific cycles.

This is a terrible shame. I used to love GT bikes back in the day.

I find this thread relevant. I'm semi-interested in a Target schwinn. Hybrid, 700mm, no suspension, 7 or 8 speed. On paper, similar to my D-Back Kalamar that I lost to a water fall. Unfortunately it costs almost as much as a new kalamar. Only I haven't been able to find a kalamar locally.

Flight Service wrote: Let's run down some brands and get some pro/cons goning on Schwinn GT Fuji Raliegh Motobecane Specialized Diamondback Trek Dawes Windsor Gravity K2 I think that covers most popular brands and a few more obscure

Brands don't mean much, as the frames are all made in a handful of Chinese factories now. The component group matters WAY more, as that's what will factor into performance/reliability the most.

Any mid-grade aluminum frame is going to be bulletproof these days.

Assuming it has Shimano components (mostly we're talking about drivetrain components), avoid bikes with components that say "Tourney" or says ONLY Shimano. If it says altus, alivio, or acera it's going to be decent stuff. Note, I have seen dept. store bikes with good components (Costco I think?), and bike store bikes with tourney bullE36 M3.

Wiki: The Shimano MTB groupset line-up.

Example of what you're looking for as far as where to find groupset names: (the front derailleur and maybe the shifters and crank should also be labeled)

gamby wrote:

Flight Service wrote: Let's run down some brands and get some pro/cons goning on Schwinn GT Fuji Raliegh Motobecane Specialized Diamondback Trek Dawes Windsor Gravity K2 I think that covers most popular brands and a few more obscure

Brands don't mean much, as the frames are all made in a handful of Chinese factories now. The component group matters WAY more, as that's what will factor into performance/reliability the most. Any mid-grade aluminum frame is going to be bulletproof these days.

this... there are only a handful of frame manufactures for the majority of frames, the same ones making $2000 trek and specilized are the same ones making bikesdirect and nashbar frames.

that isn't to say that one frame is better or worse... the companies spec different thickness and butting, different types of alu and shapes all which can make a big difference... Alu is not the same thing it was 20+ years ago with the huge super stiff tubes that "beat you up"

mndsm wrote:

Rufledt wrote: For the record GT is also owned by pacific cycles.

This is a terrible shame. I used to love GT bikes back in the day.

Me too. I have a GT hard tail mtn bike from about 2 years before they got bought by pacific. I beat the crap out of that bike and it still works.

Not all of the big bike companies are made in china. Trek for one has a factory in southern Wisconsin right near where I grew up. That might be just the higher end models, though, I don't really know for sure.

Rufledt wrote:

mndsm wrote:

Rufledt wrote: For the record GT is also owned by pacific cycles.

This is a terrible shame. I used to love GT bikes back in the day.

Me too. I have a GT hard tail mtn bike from about 2 years before they got bought by pacific. I beat the crap out of that bike and it still works. Not all of the big bike companies are made in china. Trek for one has a factory in southern Wisconsin right near where I grew up. That might be just the higher end models, though, I don't really know for sure.

the pacific buy out happend back in 2001... was a sad day but they kept GT as a high end brand (unlike schiwinn)... GT's are still good stuff... I've owned an old '88 (first year of the triple triangle) and a mid 2k's 29er...

as for US made... ya it's only the VERY high end ones that are US made, pretty much the same with most of the other US based companies, it's just so cheap to let china built a frame I guess... the stop gap is Taiwan made frames... pretty sure that is where my surly was made. better quality then China and less costly than US

I've got a few US made bikes out in my garage (Old trek with silver solder lugged joints) and a late 90's klein from right after trek bought em out but still let klein make the frames in house... my mid 80's schwinn is right inbetween the change over from Chicago to Japan so it could go either way on that one (most likely Japan though)

IIRC all trek carbon frames are made stateside. All non carbon are made elsewhere.

Sweet then I got one of each!

I know my road bike has a thing saying it was made in wisconsin, but I don't know if my mtn bike (one of their aluminum/zirconium frames) has the same thing.

My first build was a GT Team Avalanche. I built it from the frame up using whatever parts I could afford as a broke college student. That was in the mid 90s, I've put a few hundred miles on it and take it out about twice a year. I've had to replace the front derailleur and shifter assembly as well as added a more comfortable seat recently. Best bike I've ever owned.

My kids have never had new bikes thanks to the flood of used ones. I'd buy a dept store bike for casual use or growing kids, but for anything else I'd suggest a bike shop for a proper fitting, service, and knowledge.

chrispy wrote: I'd buy a dept store bike for my kids (they outgrow them too fast) or casual use. Anything else, I'd go to a bike shop, especially for the service and knowledge.

my son is due for a new bike (off his crap walmart 20" wheel "BMX" that his grandma bought with training wheels a few years back, he's been asking for "one like daddys, with the gears" being that he's enjoyed a few near 8 mile rides with me I've been looking for non huffy type options... all the major brands have a 20" and 24" wheel kids/youth bikes... some craigslist searching has shown that I can buy a used one for not much more then the huffy I was looking at the other day... that also tells me that I'd be able to sell it for not a big loss compared to a big box bike being about worthless

sadly he's a smidge to small still IMHO for a standard adult 13" or 15" frame which are still very difficult to find...

neon4891 wrote: I find this thread relevant. I'm semi-interested in a Target schwinn. Hybrid, 700mm, no suspension, 7 or 8 speed. On paper, similar to my D-Back Kalamar that I lost to a water fall. Unfortunately it costs almost as much as a new kalamar. Only I haven't been able to find a kalamar locally.

That is the bike that got this thread going

nocones wrote: IIRC all trek carbon frames are made stateside. All non carbon are made elsewhere.

Yup Taiwan and China...Just like everybody else.

My buddy is starting his new position at Trek mid-month in Wisconsin. Quality Engineer.

donalson wrote:

Rufledt wrote:

mndsm wrote:

Rufledt wrote: For the record GT is also owned by pacific cycles.

This is a terrible shame. I used to love GT bikes back in the day.

Me too. I have a GT hard tail mtn bike from about 2 years before they got bought by pacific. I beat the crap out of that bike and it still works. Not all of the big bike companies are made in china. Trek for one has a factory in southern Wisconsin right near where I grew up. That might be just the higher end models, though, I don't really know for sure.

the pacific buy out happend back in 2001... was a sad day but they kept GT as a high end brand (unlike schiwinn)... GT's are still good stuff... I've owned an old '88 (first year of the triple triangle) and a mid 2k's 29er... as for US made... ya it's only the VERY high end ones that are US made, pretty much the same with most of the other US based companies, it's just so cheap to let china built a frame I guess... the stop gap is Taiwan made frames... pretty sure that is where my surly was made. better quality then China and less costly than US I've got a few US made bikes out in my garage (Old trek with silver solder lugged joints) and a late 90's klein from right after trek bought em out but still let klein make the frames in house... my mid 80's schwinn is right inbetween the change over from Chicago to Japan so it could go either way on that one (most likely Japan though)

You'll notice that some bikes will say "DESIGNED" in America" instead of "MADE in America".

When I worked for Dick's, it would crack me up when the "America berkeley yeah" types would ask "Are any of these made in America?" I'd respond--"we don't sell $3000 bikes."

In order for the price of an entry-level bike to remain at $320 for 20 years, something had to change in terms of manufacturing, and in that case the answer was "China".

China is now great at laying up high end carbon. Only the best of the best is made in America now.

I'm currently lusting after a custom steel frame from these guys www.circleacycles.com who are 5 minutes from my house. A frame with a carbon fork will run ~$2200 or so. I'm willing to pay that in order to know the name of the guy building my frame.