Teach me hardwood floors

I grew up in a house built in 1919 that had parquet floors, and my current house, built in 1942 also has hardwoods. There is no subfloor and you can feel the chill coming up from under the floor on really cold days unless you have a good layer of modern insulation under them. On the plus side, you can tell if some insulation has fallen down simply by walking around barefoot in the winter.

In regards to going with thicker floors on a newer house:

Check out the local Habitat For Humanity or other second hand building supply place. I am about to take some solid wooden interior doors (product of 1942) over to mine. I'd even stripped them down to bare wood when we moved in because old house = lead. After doing that and getting a noticeable bit more space all around once about 10 coats of paint where gone.

I'd say you could build solid doors, but I've seen it done and unless you're a woodworker, it's harder than it seemed it would be.

I just refinished the floors in my old house which is now a rental. I had to evict the previous tenant and needed to clean up the house a little, and the "might as wells" caught up with me a little. I rented a sander, sanded them, used a hand sander in tight spots, and brushed on a 2 in 1 stain and poly product by Cabot. Yes I did it then cheap way but it looks really cool and the one coat only of stain and poly actually gives the floor a look that just goes really well with the house (built in 1947). My new tenants requested a door to be installed in a door frame that I never had a door in for the ten years I lived there. I bought a solid wood door salvage for $30, trimmed and hung the door and stained it with leftover floor stain. It looks awesome, have to brag, and turns out their idea was a pretty good one. No pics right now they are all on my phone maybe I will share later.

Sanding the floors was the easy part. Brushing on stain and wiping the excess off and really getting it into the floors was the hard work. I was sore for days.

Last time I shortened a hollow core door I just moved the little piece of wood that's normally at the bottom to the new bottom height and glued it back in.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: I've been doing this for 39 years. I've tried virtually everything out there, including an industrial jamb saw. I still use this: It works as good as anything else I have tried.

Oscillating motherfunction power tool. Like the Fein multimaster. I have the Ridgid jobmax version and a cordless one. Whips right through all the undercutting nice and quick, and smooth too. I used to cut jambs manually until i discovered the magic that is power tool. I do way too much flooring to manual anything.

If you plan to take a few days to install it makes more sense to buy the HF nailer versus renting one. Use only cleats with it even though the cheaper staples will try to suck you in via price. The only time i've had it misfire or jam is with staples. I've been using the HF nailer professionally since 2007 and it's still alive. I'm sure they redesigned it since then, the only thing i do is keep some spray lube on hand to oil the slide, as that sticks down occasionally if not done.

Don't cheap out on the floor as far as brand/country of origin go. Stick to a real company like Bruce, Armstrong, Shaw that have been in the game for years with a good track record on their finishes. Don't consider any of the big box chinese brands like home legend, the finish quality is hit and miss and when it's miss they don't stand behind their product. I know this from experience with that particular brand.

As for shortening hollow core doors, if i get into the hollow i run the cutoff through the tablesaw to rip off the faces and glue it back inside the bottom.

I'm guessing i missed half of what was asked but i'm tired.

I did a little Googling, it seems that new hardwood flooring typically returns about 75% of its cost (as long as you avoid laminate and vinyl). Kitchen remodels about 80% (as long as you don't go nuts and spend $80,000 for a kitchen in a $150,000 house). Bathrooms about 75% but use the same guidelines as a kitchen i.e. don't go nuts. Energy upgrades, typically about 75% but this varies with the geographic area.

I talked a bit with my realtor brother, he said the big problem with remodels is it's to YOUR tastes, not necessarily the buyer's and thus might backfire. If you are real close to selling your house, his advice: clean the place up thoroughly and throw out clutter, keep remodeling to a minimum. Do interior paint in neutral colors, clean up your yard and landscaping. These are cheap and easy and will generate a positive reaction in the majority of potential buyers.

Curmudgeon wrote: I did a little Googling, it seems that new hardwood flooring typically returns about 75% of its cost (as long as you avoid laminate and vinyl). Kitchen remodels about 80% (as long as you don't go nuts and spend $80,000 for a kitchen in a $150,000 house). Bathrooms about 75% but use the same guidelines as a kitchen i.e. don't go nuts. Energy upgrades, typically about 75% but this varies with the geographic area. I talked a bit with my realtor brother, he said the big problem with remodels is it's to YOUR tastes, not necessarily the buyer's and thus might backfire. If you are real close to selling your house, his advice: clean the place up thoroughly and throw out clutter, keep remodeling to a minimum. Do interior paint in neutral colors, clean up your yard and landscaping. These are cheap and easy and will generate a positive reaction in the majority of potential buyers.

Agree here. The kitchen in our house was redone 1-2 years before we bought it. Lots of choices I don't like, but everything is too new to justify redoing. I would rather have had the old kitchen and 50% of what they spent on the new one taken off the price.

SVreX wrote: In reply to Curmudgeon: OSB is not suitable for a subfloor for anything. It was an industry standard for a short time in the '70's, but only when the standard was to do 2 separate layers of "subfloor", totally 1 1/4" thick. It is not used anymore (except for people who don't know any better buying from Home Depot). There ARE particle based materials that LOOK a little like OSB used for subfloors. They go by names like Advantech, TruFlor, SturdiFloor, Plytsanium, etc. These are not OSB, and they are FAR superior to plywood. If the plastic is actually a vapor barrier, its a bad idea. It will collect condensate between wood layers, and rot one of them. A vapor barrier does not belong sandwiched between 2 layers of wood. It belongs on the warm/ moist side of the assembly.

I installed new subflooring in the back half of our main level when we had gutted the kitchen, added a 6' door opening in an exterior wall and removed a bathroom and part wall. The plan was to have very large porcelain tile - 18"x36" - set on Schluter Ditra, so a dead-flat, very solid sub flor was a must. After I removed the diagonal decking (true 1" stock, but super wavy) I spent a lot of time w/ a laser level and long straightedges finding the high joist then marking the relative heights of the rest. I power planed a few to minimize the range of heights, sistered the joists where the bathroom used to be, then ripped a mile of shims on the table saw.

I set the new subfloor using Advantech with Sika adhesive between the joists, shims, and sheets of Advantech. I screwed everything down w/ pretty long #9 screws on the screw matrix Advantech prints on the sheets. It installs beautifully and is amazingly solid.

I checked for flatness using a laser, and did deflection tests. The largest deviation from plane was 3/32" and it was flat over it's 33' length and side to side within 1/16". Definitely better than it had to be, but once you're measuring and writing down heights and have enough shims in 1/16", 3/32" and 1/8" increments it's not really any extra work.

The tile guy was genuinely impressed. BTW, despite being an old school guy he likes Schluter Ditra underlayment, and after setting our floor using the Tuscan Levelling System product I provided, he was sold on it as well.

My house has two rooms on slabs, I stuck to tiling those and I used 12x12 tiles. They came out nine and are easy to clean etc.

The rest of the house is on a crawl space, has some thick plywood subfloor that dates back to the 1970's and was in great shape so I left it alone when laying the hardwood except for yanking out the damn staples that held the padding for the carpet which I had removed. Holy crap, there must have been a million of them. I started in one corner with a screwdriver, end nippers and needle nose pliers. It took me damn near a full day to pull those staples! I swept the subfloors then vacuumed, the amount of dirt and mung that had been trapped by the carpet was astounding. Yet another reason I heart hardwood.

My mom and stepdad had their kitchen floor done in stone, which looks great. Unfortunately, their house is on a crawl space and has what looks like OSB (might be one of the products SVReX mentioned) and since it can flex some of the stones have cracked.

That is a lot of why I have decided not to do anything with my kitchen floor just yet; it would look funny in hardwood, carpet is out of the question, it will be too flexible for real tile without a lot of work, the vinyl in there looks OK.

I may sell this house in the next couple of years so that's another reason to leave it alone right now.

Curmudgeon wrote: My mom and stepdad had their kitchen floor done in stone, which looks great. Unfortunately, their house is on a crawl space and has what looks like OSB (might be one of the products SVReX mentioned) and since it can flex some of the stones have cracked.

If it flexed like that, it was probably OSB, not one of those subfloor products.

That's why I said it was an unsuitable subfloor.

I'm back with pics. Not a pro job but much improved.

About hollow core doors - if you're looking at resale, solid doors inside the house will likely make a real difference. It's one of those things that buyers might not explicitly notice, but the house will feel better built if the doors have some heft. Kinda like putting a little square of Dynamat inside your car doors to make it go THUNK when you close it I've been replacing all the hollow core doors in our house with solid ones, doing the finishing myself. Doesn't take long but boy, does it make a difference. I would never go to the effort of modifying a cardboard door to fit new flooring.

Note, I am not a RealtorTM nor do I play one on TV.

Looks good, Matt!

time may be a factor re: pre-finished or finish in place.

When I did mine this summer, we re-finished most of the original floor and only had to splice in a small section. Sanding the whole house took 2 days (and NOTHING can be in your house on the floor). Finishing the floors took 4 coats, and each had to dry for 12-24 hours before the next coat. Smell was strong in the house while it was drying. We love the floors now though.

If you are doing this in a place where you are currently living, it could be a major consideration.

In reply to mattmacklind:

That does look really good.

This thread is one of those things that makes me wish I owned a home. Instead I rent and have to deal with the funk that's been left behind in carpets. I would rather live in a home with 100% kitchen style linoleum flooring than have carpet + ??? in it.

SVreX wrote:

Curmudgeon wrote: My mom and stepdad had their kitchen floor done in stone, which looks great. Unfortunately, their house is on a crawl space and has what looks like OSB (might be one of the products SVReX mentioned) and since it can flex some of the stones have cracked.

If it flexed like that, it was probably OSB, not one of those subfloor products. That's why I said it was an unsuitable subfloor.

Alright, I'm dumb. My hardwood project is replacing carpet in two rooms. Underneath the carpet is a pad, and underneath that is slab.

Can I install hardwood on slab? Do I need to build a subfloor so that the hardwood will end up even with the rest of the house?

.

you can hardwood on a slab. slab must be DRY. there are several ways, probably the easiest being a liquid moisture barrier with the wood glued down on top of that. or you could do a floating click together engineered floor(not laminate), which will come with a cushion that has it's own barrier built in. i've known several guys to never bother with any barrier and glue directly to the concrete, but you'll have to get lucky and make sure it never sweats from air temp/moisture changes. i've seen that kill floors.

What's the word on those "click together" hardwood (or Bamboo) floors? Not the 1/4" stuff, but the 1/2"+ thick stuff?

Anyone used them?

"Click" floors are floating floors, regardless of the thickness.

They are easy to install, and work well on surfaces that move, concrete, etc.

They don't feel "solid" when completed. Like they are not quite attached right.

But they are very DIY friendly.

I have them in my own house.

SVreX wrote: "Click" floors are floating floors, regardless of the thickness. They are easy to install, and work well on surfaces that move, concrete, etc. They don't feel "solid" when completed. Like they are not quite attached right. But they are very DIY friendly. I have them in my own house.

I like them in a kitchen. Easier on the back.

i'll say this. the click together engineered floors can be awesome. i've done some hardcore strand woven bamboo that is hell on saw blades and impossible to damage. BUT, the chinese stuff like Home Legend from home depot - beware of it. the finish used to be OK on that particular brand and we were doing lots of it with good results and happy customers, but recently I installed some and it was horrible. like we were scratching it before we were finished with the install and the customer's dog tore giant gouges in it. had to replace half a floor on my time and dime. it used to be a better product, now it's not good enough to throw in the fire to heat the overpass the person that signed off on the quality control should be living under...

i don't have any in my own house but i've put enough in houses that are repeat customers to know how it holds up. i do nail down solid hardwood or staple down engineered in my house depending on what deal i get at the time(or that time my mom ordered way too much bella cera hickory so that found it's way into the kid's bedroom).

here's a tip. if you're looking for deals on lowes website, check all the stores around you. i found one store had shaw solid oak in a color i liked and the price was marked down. i checked another store nearby and it was even cheaper. ordered 240 square feet and it was $100 less at one lowes versus the other.

mtn wrote:

SVreX wrote: "Click" floors are floating floors, regardless of the thickness. They are easy to install, and work well on surfaces that move, concrete, etc. They don't feel "solid" when completed. Like they are not quite attached right. But they are very DIY friendly. I have them in my own house.

I like them in a kitchen. Easier on the back.

I agree. I didn't say I don't like them.

I have laminate throughout my house, it came that way.

I can see this garbage being the "panelling" of our generation. Give it 10 years and people will be tearing it out as fast as they can.

It's just a picture of a hardwood floor, on your floor.

In reply to Trans_Maro:

Hey now, I still like paneling! I just wish it wasn't so much more expensive than drywall.

What a great forum.

Question, which is more DIY friendly and cost efficient....tiling or wood flooring? I like the look of wood but prefer the indestructibility and water proofness of tile.

Trans_Maro wrote: I have laminate throughout my house, it came that way. I can see this garbage being the "panelling" of our generation. Give it 10 years and people will be tearing it out as fast as they can. It's just a picture of a hardwood floor, on your floor.

Interesting take, and a good chance you're right. I'm on the other end though; I view it more as the linolium of our generation. And linolium can actually, IMHO, be better than tile.