The future of mainstream Automotive magazines - NOT GRM

I figured a cusp millennial/gen Z perspective might be useful here so this is where I see mainstream automotive print media going.

There are a ton of casual car enthusiasts in colleges across North America right now. Since my generation has, for the most part, been priced out of home ownership we see cars as the big status symbols in our lives. Power, freedom, luxury, mobility, exhilaration, expression. Most of my non-enthusiast colleagues have dream cars. Some are very GRM (1981 Camaro V8 with t-tops) and some are much less GRM (Lexus GX460) but everyone can back their choice up with reasoning. It's hard to find someone my age who's never seen Top Gear or Gymkhana or Fast & Furious and this relatively new infusion of automotive media is making Gen Z and cusp really care about cars. The way we consume media has changed so here's what my generation wants in a car magazine.

-Visual lushness. Glossy paper, tons of rich images, great scenery.

-Specs. 0-60, 1/4 mile, 5-60 street start, braking, lateral g, curb weight, etc.

-Comparison tests

-Track tests

-Road trips

-Simple how-tos

-Beater challenges

Car & Driver is actually doing a fantastic job at all of this right now, they just aren't pushing hard enough on social media to get engagement from Y2K kids.

Grassroots isn’t cheap or junky. Sorry. Never was, isn’t  gonna be going forward. If that was all we were about, the name would’ve been Budget Motorsports or Cheap Racing$ and it would’ve been a hell of a lot less clunky of a title, TBH.

Grassroots is of the people. Meaning individuals, regular folk. And people come in all shapes and sizes and budgets for their hobbies. That’s who we represent: The hobbyist. It’s a wide spectrum of education, income and ability, and there’s always a tendency to throw shade on the people who bring more $$ to the table, especially here on the board—which skews much cheaper, demographically, than the overall readership. (For that reason we listen to what the forum wants, but realize it doesn’t represent the core subsciber demographic—or even, by your own admissions, subscribers at all in many cases.)

The resistance to higher-dollar stuff here and its dismissal as “not Grassroots” is, frankly, the reason my “welcome to the party” message includes the line about people being crazy if they think they can just show up and tell me, Tim, and the people we’ve worked with for decades what the flavor and tone of what we’ve built is gonna be. Still, it’s a popular exercise, especially among people who have no skin in the game. 

Ever think that people with more $ can still be hobbyists, still want to race or play with cars, and the same thing that brings them more $—their professional lives—drives them to seek and need more expensive, but time-saving, solutions? What, exactly, are they taking from your non-subscription-buying, super-cheap lifestyle when they ask for this information?

You can tell me a lot of stuff and I will probably believe it, but don’t tell me who I am. 

Margie

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/articles/junkyard-jam/

True enthusiasts, on the the other hand, see a gold mine in the salvage yard.

That was a fun article. Good reminder to do another. Interesting, though... we are talking about core interests, the soul of the mag and demographics, but you pulled up an article where we hired Bike Week models (as I recall, we had to keep asking one of them not to actually berkeley the tools in the pics) as an example  of who we want to be. Maybe it’s that simple.

FWIW, I bitched in the past about the big dollar stuff and said it wasn't "grassroots". You defended it then like you just did and you were right.

Everybody's grassroots is different, and though I can afford to drive much nicer stuff than I usually do, it's just not my style.

Edit to your edit: I knew you would say something about those models and it's unfortunate that they were there (as a distraction) because the article is really good and the kind of grassroots stuff I liked. The fact that t was in a junkyard was icing on the cake

It WAS a really cute layout. Good to revisit.

Speaking of cute...

That photo has everything I’m proud of.

In my prior comment I alluded to "grassroots" meaning different things to different people so I hope Marjorie et al aren't taking my own definition of it as a flaming criticism.

I've been on/off purchaser of the Suddard publications since Auto-X and I'm sure we can agree there has been a shift in overall flavor from those humble origins.

My interests fall closer to Challenge cars rather than UTCC. Marjorie indicates the readership has a stronger upmarket interest than we here in the forum and wise business people will cater to what their customers want. Thus, I don't subscribe but thousands of others do. If they catered to my whims/tastes they wouldn't sell as many copies. No quarrel there.

Over the last several decades I think the playing-with-cars world has changed quite a bit. I see it at the HPDE's I instruct at. What used to be cheap, low powered cars is now a sea of pretty serious machinery that folks can buy and run with only a tire and brake pad change. Miatas will always be there but gone are the Civics, Focuses, non-turbo rotaries and so on. The 'slow' cars are now E36 M3's. People aren't running carbs, they are buying hand-held tuners. Turbos and 400 hp V8s are everywhere. GRM caters to this new era of car enthusiasts which is good.

So maybe my interests would be in CM these days but that magazine (as good as it is) embraces the car show/perfect paint/nut-and-bolt restoration enthusiast. BTDT with a car or two, didn't enjoy it.

My prior comments weren't meant to be critical. I mean, I'm not a 'customer' so really have no place to complain. I'm just offering a perspective as to why some people like me may still hang around here but not purchase the product. The buyer of a new Corvette may consider 'grassroots' to mean autocrossing his car. It has a different meaning to me, but not one that will sell magazines in the same number.

Marjorie Suddard said:

That was a fun article. Good reminder to do another. Interesting, though... we are talking about core interests, the soul of the mag and demographics, but you pulled up an article where we hired Bike Week models (as I recall, we had to keep asking one of them not to actually berkeley the tools in the pics) as an example  of who we want to be. Maybe it’s that simple.

The irony of that issue is that we bought one for everyone in my family, since you had a feature on our GRM Alfa.  My wife was not all that happy about the cover to send to her parents....  ;)

As for the salvage yard thing- even the Challenge was more about Ebay and on line contacts than the salvage yard.  Not sure how people got to junkyard cars WRT the challenge- I never once saw it as that.  And the EBay awards and recognition was an example of that.

What I STILL appreciate about the Challenge is that it's more about being clever to solve a problem than just throwing money at it.  I've had more than one argument on the Miata.net board about how the CSP cars have to spend $20k just to show up, and I thought it was stupid and just not thinking out the options correctly.  

I have had a subscription to C&D since I was 15, so that's 34 years now.  It was always my favorite because of the writing, irreverent, risky at times, covering topics and vehicles no one else would. I was a big fan of Brock Yates and Csaba Csere and the whole crew back then. My favorite articles were always the on-offs in the back, like the triple-threat Firebird from Keith Black or the Lingenfelter Tahoe, but I just love cars in general, so I still have a subscription. I tried going digital, but reading car magazines is so ingrained in my life, I didn't enjoy them on the iPad as much. (books are a different story, 100% iPad now) 

I originally subscribed to Motor Trend and Road and Track because I loved cars. While the writing wasn't as good, they always had something interesting for a car nut like me.  Today, I find that Motor Trend is more interesting than C&D and R&T mostly because of Lieberman and Pobst. (Pobst is worth the subscription alone.) I keep my subscriptions because they are cheap and I still prefer printed car magazines to digital. I'm also trying out Motor Trend TV. The jury is out but, I loved the Best Drivers Car coverage.  

I loved Automobile for Jean Lindamood, but she is gone and the mag is owned by Motor Trend, so you see a lot of duplicate coverage.  I still subscribe because I can generally read more than 4 magazines in a month depending on my schedule and fiber intake. Maybe I keep the subscription because it's a habit, but I do still read it.  

I have had GRM for, I dunno, 15 years or more?  I originally subscribed because it had more low-cost coverage that was relevant to me. I don't think the magazine has changed, I just haven't kept up.  I mean, had my life stayed on track I would be working on a similar Z06 project and be very interested in GRM!  A lot of people my age transitioned to hillclimbs and track days, so I understand where GRM is at.  Still, as an avid autocrosser who drives the cheapest way to get into the sport in a new car and still dominate your class, you'd think there would be more coverage for me. And now that the MFGs are giving you press cars to sample, why don't we have a lap board for them?  All cars should be sent through the same autocross course with the same driver to set a time. Food for thought.  

And while I admit that I don't read it cover to cover, I do find interesting things every issue of GRM. The writing is conversational, I never have to Google any of the obscure references, and they ask the questions about cars that I would ask. Reading GRM is like talking to my car buddies every month.  (which reminds me, a monthly live video from your local bar or the garage, with a few readers, sitting around, drinking a beer, talking cars, killer content right there.)  So yeah, I do still enjoy and want the printed magazine, but honestly, because they are not "the man" and they do so much to support the car community, I'd keep my subscription if it were blank.

Marjorie Suddard said:

Grassroots isn’t cheap or junky. Sorry. Never was, isn’t  gonna be going forward.

Grassroots is of the people. Meaning individuals, regular folk. And people come in all shapes and sizes and budgets for their hobbies.

To me, this is true, but only to an extent.  There comes a point where certain people are no longer "regular folk", if they ever were.  That point is not directly correlated to money, but they can be roughly parallel.  Paul Newman, Steve McQueen, and Jay Leno were / are still "regular folk" despite being rich and famous beyond the wildest dreams of your (I assume) average subscriber.  They get their hands dirty (or used to), they still appreciate a car (anyone's car) built with love rather than money, and their interest is in the car itself, not its function as a demonstrator of wealth or taste.  A substantial portion of that attitude grows out of economic necessity, which is why so many people tend to associate "grassroots" with "cheap", in particular where it relates to your magazine.  The folks who keep it as a natural part of their personality and enthusiasm are the ones who stay "grassroots" regardless of their economic success.

But there are plenty of folks who can afford to buy showcase cars and pay showcase shops to put showcase parts on them and get showcase dyno numbers or concours scores or whatever.  By my definition, those people aren't grassroots, even if they go to every Cars & Coffee or marque club track day.  They're no longer interested in the cars as cars; they're interested in the bragging rights those cars can provide.  They're the DuPont Registry crowd.

I'm not telling you that's what you should think.  I'm telling you that's what I, as a 20-year GRM subscriber, think.

In reply to Marjorie Suddard :

That was a great article !  So great I never noticed the girls....

How about a revisit with some cars that are still around in the yards as a lot of the cars mentioned, especially the Mopars, T1, TII.... even the newer neons are no longer present in any of the yards around here (NH). They all became victims of the crusher when scrap metal prices were up, SAD !!!!   The pick and pull yard near me had tons of this stuff 10+ years ago, now its less than 1/4th cars it did then, and all this stuff is gone.

How about stuff that can be found on one brand and used on projects for other brands. My last visit to the yard near me, there was a Porsche Boxster with nice red calipers. When asked for the price they came back with 75 each, not sure if its a good deal or not, but compared to new Brembos, Willwoods, or others it seems like an attractive price.  

After the finding the stuff and what you can do with it article, follow up with  a series of how to  articles on the parts. You can start with this is how you make Porsche Boxster brakes fit a Subaru powered, Kelmark GT bodied, 73 beetle on the cheap.

Now I have to dig through my pile of mags to reread, as I prefer to read the hard copy rather than on a screen, I sit in front of 2 screens all day at work and to much at home for stuff that is not available in paper format, its nice to pick up the mag for a change,

Steve

It's funny how this:

I stopped subscribing because I felt GRM was drifting away from the junkyard shopping, fix-it-in-your-gravel-driveway cheap old cars thing it started out as. And there is some truth to that.

Turns into this:

Grassroots isn’t cheap or junky. Sorry. Never was, isn’t  gonna be going forward. If that was all we were about, the name would’ve been Budget Motorsports or Cheap Racing$ and it would’ve been a hell of a lot less clunky of a title, TBH.

I said almost exactly the same thing years ago and got almost exactly the same angry defensive reply, and though my memory of issues past may not be all that good, I don't think he's entirely wrong, and precisely why I stopped reading.

What, exactly, is so offensive about what he said? 

What, indeed, is so offensive about what he—or I—said? And to be clear, I was —and am—talking about the word “grassroots” (see lack of capitalization). The magazine includes cheap, junky, high-dollar, refined... all ot it. Always has. I’m not rejecting any of it. Just pointing out the title is more than what some folks insist it is.

Thanks everyone else for not making this personal, and for taking real time to share honest opinions and insight as to how we can serve our readers better. Lot of good stuff here, and definitely food for thought. 

Since I know many of the people here have not, by their own admission, subscribed for many years (if at all), would you guys mind chiming in and letting me know if you read any if our content online? And if you did, what did you like and not like?

Margie

The biggest thing on the GRM board this last year was Seth fixing his own Benz R63.    This personifies grassroots to me.  By all accounts, this is a High Dollar Car.  He could have taken the high dollar approach to letting the dealership fix it for him or just scrapped the car since the repair would have cost more than the cars worth.  No, instead, he still spent a lot of money (garage lift, software, special tools and a lot of Benz parts) and did it himself.  Even more GRM personified, he was getting world class help on-line from people like an AMG tech he never met.  

Grassroots does not mean cheap.  

GRM'er also doesn't mean, "doesn't have a pot to piss in or can't afford better."  If you ever get a chance get a look at the GRM media pack.  This has a demographic breakdown of the readers.  It's pretty impressive.  

I also don't see the board as just a bunch of "mouth breathers."  If you stick around this board, unlike FB you need to become somewhat good at expressing yourself via the written word.  This alone eliminates a lot of the mouth breathers right away.  Really bad grammer and really bad spelling are not tolerated very long here (though they somehow manage to let me stay, ha.)  Really, not tolerated are false claims or mis-info.   

Here is an old thread I saved.  It is an interesting insight to who these other people on the board really are:  

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/off-topic-discussion/what-do-you-do-and-how-did-you-end-up-there/46380/page1/

For me personally, the problem is I don't have time to read the magazine for entertainment, and the magazine format is too restrictive for information. (like, I want to know common issues about a project ______?  What are the odds it's in the magazine now?  The internet knows though.  Or I want to know how tires are shaping up for autocross this year?  Well that issue won't be out for 2 months so the internet and word of mouth is more relevant when I need them NOW.  I feel like information used to move slower before the internet, and magazines could be an authoritative source of it.  Now magazine archives are really sweet but buying the current issue has limited value compared to the versatility and speed of the internet.)

I subscribe because I love that a magazine with this focus exists, and because I hope it supports the forums some too.  I just don't find it personally *useful*.

I hadn't been following this thread, didn't realize it had suffered the "what is grassroots?" sidetrack. Comparing the current magazine to memories of old magazines is a lot like comparing old music to new music - you forgot about the stuff you didn't like, so you only remember what you did.

How does this work as the Grassroots mantra? Built, not bought. Sure, it's from the offroad world, but it does sum up a lot of what we do. And even if you're not building the parts, you're building the car. It's fair to say that a modified Miata is more grassroots than a brand new Camaro 1LE. Well, probably. Maybe it depends what you do with both

For the domestic magazines: I read R&T because of the sheer quality of the writing. I'd read Sam Smith's grocery list. I would love to see GRM be a little more lyrical in driving impressions or bring Sam's brand of hyperactive enthusiasm to event reporting, but GRM also does a great job of enumerating tech info without it simply being a list of parts. I know that's not accidental, I've heard Tim expositing on the subject.

I don't read the online articles. I've rarely used the magazine as a technical resource, I much prefer the tales of really interesting project cars summed up in a good article. Sure, you can scroll through a massive build thread if you want to see 37 photos of welding on a fender liner, but the quality walkthrough of a cool car is something you don't find elsewhere.

Personally, I take part in the GRM forum not because it's part of my job, but because I like the people and the tone here. It's a lot more fun than some of the other forums - some of which I don't go to even though I SHOULD for work. I can be a person here instead of being a company representative, and I like that a lot. Awww. Group hug.

GRM = built, not bought.

Except when it is read by stock class autocrossers who make payments on a new WhateverIsHot who get some sticky tires thrown on spare wheels at the local NTB. So that descriptor doesn't fit everyone either.

Grassroots means different things to different people. Case in point:  though I fondly pontificate about building cars under trees with wooden mallets, back in 2002 I helped build a car that won the GRM Challenge. While most folks were cobbling together junkyard refugees trying to find speed we upped the game. We had a welder back when Harbor Freight didn't have MIG welders anyone could afford. We built a car totally grassroots...except to listen to a lot of the Challenge participants we didn't. Some just couldn't conceive something so well presented could have been built from junk. (I assure you, it was a lot of junk with nice paint on it).

This is ultimately one of those pointless arguments like "What is a sports car?"

As to Marjorie's inquiry, I rarely read the online content. Mostly because I have a narrow focus of interest these days. I do occasionally pick up a buddy's copy of GRM and page through it but haven't found much the last few times that grabbed me. Again, see prior post about my changing tastes which shouldn't be representative of a target reader.

I subscribe mostly for the stickers and to support what has become my social network. Every time I get the notification on my phone, I flip through the new issue to check on "Say What" and see who made the cut, and see what else is on tap. By the time it hits my mailbox 10-14 days later, I'm done reading it though, which is good because if my kid gets her hands on it first it turns into confetti.  

I'm mostly interested in it for challenge coverage though, and having a magazine to show people is almost as good as having videos when trying to explain the concept. 

As far as what grassroots means to me? Well, I have to budget and plan 6-8 months in advance just to buy mediocre tires, so more budget than I have, but definitely built vs bought. Seths R63 and The Nelsons Challenge cars are on complete opposite ends of the spectrum while encompassing a full on grass roots train of thought and way to work. Just looking through the build threads, seeing the knowledge, technique, and experience get rolled into everything instead of just handing a check to a shop, that sort of thing is grassroots to me. 

Suprf1y said:

Speaking of cute...

Took me 15 years of white-knuckle therapy to un-see that the first time.  Thanks.  Thanks a lot.

Toyman01 said:

GRM is the only magazine I subscribe to. I skim it every time it shows up but honestly don't read it in detail. The primary reason for the subscription is to support the fine people that generate it and to keep the forum alive and well. 

Same here. I used to read GRM cover to cover, twice, then put it in a labeled box for re-re-read later. Now I skim it, read an article or two, then recycle. 

There's less focus on grassroots than there used to be.