The world needs love.

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

I can only speak my opinion but religion is created, and curated, by man and man is inherently flawed. I wrote a super long rambling thing but the short version is this:

Morality does not come from religion, it comes from faith. Faith and religion are 2 very very different things. The problem with society as a whole is entitlement and a self centered point of view.

Religion will not fix that

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Religion and Politics are not inherently bad. It's how some people abuse them for personal power that is bad. Hey, Lets talk about Religion and Politics, NO.

Back to Love...

Want to help make someone feel better? Care about them in a way that actions show it.

Want to feel good? Do something for someone else with no expectation of gain or recognition.

Antihero (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Boost_Crazy :

I can only speak my opinion but religion is created, and curated, by man and man is inherently flawed. I wrote a super long rambling thing but the short version is this:

 

Morality does not come from religion, it comes from faith. Faith and religion are 2 very very different things. The problem with society as a whole is entitlement and a self centered point of view.

Religion will not fix that

I dunno that I'd agree that morality comes from faith (mainly because I'm not sure how you're defining faith.)  No problems with the rest, though.

AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Religion and Politics are not inherently bad. It's how some people abuse them for personal power that is bad. 

Which goes back to greed?

AAZCD (Forum Supporter) said:

Want to help make someone feel better? Care about them in a way that actions show it.

Want to feel good? Do something for someone else with no expectation of gain or recognition.

Note: The above statement may not work well for sociopaths. If you are a greedy sociopath give yourself a good kick in the nuts. That will help make other people feel better.

Mr_Asa said:

...Church is one of the longest sources of community cohesion and now that its constant immorality is being exposed people are leaving it regularly....

Lutherians, right?  Those bastards!  What good have they ever done!

Your statement is a great example of what is creating these division and what the OP is referring to. Dividing people into distinct groups and generalizing about them ("the problem with the Jedi is that they only deal in absolutes").

- Churches are not bad, some people who attend them or run them are.

- People who don't go to churches are not bad, some people who don't go to them are and people who run some (non-church) organizations are.

The "church" is not the issue.  You certainly don't need a "church" to have a few bad people influence (or harm) a lot of people. Heck, some of the largest mass killings of humans in history have been the result of governments who explicitly forbid religion!

You can remove religion if you like, but it won't work (people will find a new "religion" anyway). 

Money can't buy happiness, or time in the literal sense, but it can buy convenience. Having money can make a lot of stuff easier. 

If you're not "rich" and your car breaks, you lose time waiting on the repair, if you have the money, your car can be new enough to take that out of the mix, etc. 

If you're the average guy and want to travel, it takes hours of waiting to get somewhere by plane. Get to the airport, stand in line to check bags, go from that line to security, and stand in line. Get to the gate, wait to board, when you land, wait to get off, etc. If you're above average, the first class check bag line, is much shorter, as is the security line. You board first, and you're off first. That costs $, but saves time. Is it worth it? Up to the guy buying the tickets. 
 

aircooled said:

- Churches are not bad, some people ... run them are.

What is the distinction here?  Because without the people that run them, there aren't really churches?

CAinCA said:

There have been studies done that have found that basically once people enough money that they aren't living paycheck to paycheck they really aren't any happier no matter how much more money they have.

Remember that "Money can't buy happiness" is really a condemnation of seeking wealth above all else. Saying that a certain ammount of  money isn't necessary for happiness (at least in the USA) isn't the same thing, because while money can't buy happiness,  poverty surely can't, either.
More importantly, poverty can cause an awful lot of misery that just having a little more money could've prevented. It can change the stresses you have from "Am I going to eat today" and "Will I wind up homeless if I get laid off" into "Ah, my food order is wrong" and "I didn't get the promotion at work."

Again: Try being happy while being both homeless and hungry. It's clear some of you never lived in survival mode. 

RE: The decline of religion. 

 The time period we're talking about as the start of the decline of religion is also tied closely to the end of the Cold War. Grudging cooperation was common in this country before that, since there was an external threat. After that threat was removed, and the Fairness In Reporting Act was repealed, things got nasty FAST. It was a race to the bottom. I think we're seeing the fruits of that more than anything else.  

aircooled said:

You can remove religion if you like, but it won't work (people will find a new "religion" anyway). 

I agree that some people lack personal agency and will seek some form of external guidance on how to live their life or confirmation about how they ARE living their life.* This isn't a knock on the faithful, it's a commentary on how some people seem wired to have to follow SOMETHING, be it religion, science, veganism, fitness, political affiliation, whatever. I think there might be a term for this, but I can't be bothered to look it up.

Maybe we can use that they way religions have in the past to recruit our members, but instead of focusing on faith we can focus on works so things get done without any strings attached to them. 

We can call it "Being A Human Being." We'll try to get people to realize that we're all in this together, most of the problems people have we've created for ourselves and no supernatural force is going to lift a finger to help us, so we're going to have to get our E36 M3 in order and work together to take care of each other and fix it all. We'd stress the part that it's up to us, and only us (as in humanity) to do that.

We can have neighborhood meetings every Sunday where people can meet and socialize. First, maybe we can go over how we can stop being dicks to each other and behave better. There could be guidelines around this. Ten general points might cover it well enough. We can hear about some good work done, plan what good work is going to get done in the future, and see if anybody in the community needs help with anything. Maybe they could take up a collection that could be put towards this. After that, we can serve a light snack and a beverage. Oh, and we might be able to mix in some songs during the whole thing. Maybe everybody could sing some songs about togetherness as a community, doing better as a person, and how absolutely nothing will get done if we don't do it ourselves, karaoke style. OH, OH! The young kids could go to a community center school nearby while the grown ups are in the meetings and learn about how to be a good person and what it means. They can cover morality and citizenship that gets missed in the public schools. After a few generations of people getting raised this way, it will seem normal. Before long, people will wonder how everybody managed to survive at all without it, and think people who don't want to participate are maybe a bit strange. 

I have an idea on making the world better

Elect me as president, and I'll delete twitter completely. I'll just berkeleyin Yeet it out of existence. The entire US military will be commanded to melting down every scrap and shard of that worthless E36 M3hole so it can no longer warp our minds in the extremes. Their shareholders will be given wedgies, their computers and servers repurposed for the common man, the wealth redistributed. Whos gonna stop me? Congress? Cancel culture can't stop a 7.62 in a server's hard drive, now go touch grass kid

You, sir, may be an actual anarchist. I didnt spell antichrist. 
 

haha. Awesome. 

In reply to Mr_Asa :

Causation does not imply correlation.  I'd argue that its more that a strong sense of community gives a close tie to a moral standard.  Church is one of the longest sources of community cohesion and now that its constant immorality is being exposed people are leaving it regularly.

You want a source for rising immorality in America?  Capitalism's rise in the 80s.  Every single problem in the US is linked to greed becoming the primary.

Is is just religion? Heck no. But you dismissed the decline of religion completely. No you said. Religion was one of the most significant things in the vast majority of American life just a generation or two ago. Sure, you can dissect religion into different social components, but I'm talking about the overall effect religion had over the way people behaved in society, now vs. the recent history, in my lifetime. To dismiss that it like saying people who share a culture dress and eat similarly due to coincidence. Following your example, a street gang has a strong sense of community. They have rules, a strong code of conduct, tradition, social functions, and a sense of community. Those attributes alone obviously don't give the group a strong sense of morality as most of us would define it. Maybe this is a better example- another way to look at the decline in religion is America can also be described as a culture change. Would you dismiss a significant culture change as a factor to why people would treat others differently? Once again, not defending churches or religion- just stating that to dismiss their roles in shaping American values and culture would be short sighted. 

I think you are off the mark a bit on capitalism. People have always been greedy, it's just that through capitalism more people than ever have had the ability to amass wealth. Capitalism has lifted more people out of poverty than any system before or since. Most wealthy people and wealthy countries are incredibly generous. Great advances that have benefited all of civilization have taken place do to capitalism. It's not perfect, as someone else mentioned, everything created by humans is inherently flawed. But it's better than everything else out there. I fail to see how capitalism and being kind to each other is an this or that proposition. 

You guys are still talking about how society is worse now than it was when everyone went to church Sunday morning, after a Saturday night burning a cross in someone's lawn, then going home and slapping the little woman around for burning the Salisbury steak.

You are all berkeleying wrong.

Vajingo said:

After reading this article https://news.google.com/articles/CAIiEFBfnVG7q-tB-ibiqOKHfL8qFggEKg4IACoGCAowl6p7MN-zCTC9vBU?hl=en-US&gl=US&ceid=US%3Aen

and seeing some of this first hand, I have concluded the reason is a lack of love. Love among friends, lovers, strangers.
 

If you feel agitated, ask for a hug. Screw covid guidelines. I would rather risk covid (vacc'd anyways) than get so irate that I do something so hurtful and dangerous. 
 

I know a lot of stress does strange things to us. and the economy isn't good. But we will always have love. It can't be taken away. It can't be beat. 

I am convinced that love is what has gotten humankind as far as it has  

the news is full of hate. Please turn it off. Even just the article I linked did not make me happier. 
 

these are just random lunch thoughts. I mean all of this honestly. I know I've made some folks here mad. Sorry about that. I should be more mature. Let's not let that ruin our experience here. 
 

and now some thoughts about love:

Love is patient, doesnt get provoked. Love dont keep account of injury. It persists under pressure, it believes in others, has hope , enables you to endure all things.

Love can't fail.

love is all we have. It's what makes us human. Without love, we are animals. 
 

Love a stranger like you love you. 
 

Your hate can beat my hate. But nothing can best my love. 
 

Love your enemies. If you do, at worst it'll confuse them. At best, you'll no longer have an enemy. 
 

Love buries a lot of mistakes. Yours and theirs. 
 

no one will ever do anything more heroic (and loving)  than laying down their life for another. 
 

love isn't shown by words. It's by actions. 
 

post something you've done today to make the world better. 

Good post. Lets lock the thread before the discussion leads to more division and hate.

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I don't think anyone is saying society is worse. But I'll go out on a limb and say most people feel that common courtesy, kindness, and compassion for strangers is in a bit of a slump. It's terrific that we have less spousal abuse, racism, and many other examples of people treating each other poorly. But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

Vajingo said:

post something you've done today to make the world better. 

I chose not to reply to any of the self-serving biased half-truths that have been posted by people who can't change their mind and won't change the subject.

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

Careful...

We nailed a guy up for saying things like that.

ShawnG said:

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

Careful...

We nailed a guy up for saying things like that.

Always look on the bright side of life!

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I don't think anyone is saying society is worse. But I'll go out on a limb and say most people feel that common courtesy, kindness, and compassion for strangers is in a bit of a slump. It's terrific that we have less spousal abuse, racism, and many other examples of people treating each other poorly. But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

It would be nice to have both. But I personally think that the decline of religion has little to do with and far more with the rise of social media. It has supercharged political divides and allows people to be dicks to each other anonymously. At some point that will spill over into the real world.

But tbh I don't see that much nastier in real life then I remember say 15-20 years ago.

I'd sell your heart to the junkman baby
For a buck, for a buck
If you're looking for someone to pull you out of that ditch
You're out of luck, you're out of luck

The ship is sinking
The ship is sinking
The ship is sinking

There's a leak, there's a leak, in the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers

God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.
God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.

Digging up the dead with a shovel and a pick
It's a job, it's a job.
Bloody moon rising with a plague and a flood
Join the mob, join the mob

It's all over
It's all over
It's all over

There's a leak, there's a leak in the boiler room
The poor, the lame, the blind
Who are the ones that we kept in charge?
Killers, thieves, and lawyers

God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.
God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.

[Instrumental Break]

God damn there's always such a big temptation
To be good, To be good
There's always free cheddar in a mousetrap, baby
It's a deal, it's a deal

God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.
God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.

I narrow my eyes like a coin slot baby,
Let her ring, let her ring.

God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business.
God's away, God's away,
God's away on Business. Business.

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

ShawnG said:

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

Careful...

We nailed a guy up for saying things like that.

Always look on the bright side of life!

Cheer up ya Bugger!

93EXCivic said:

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I don't think anyone is saying society is worse. But I'll go out on a limb and say most people feel that common courtesy, kindness, and compassion for strangers is in a bit of a slump. It's terrific that we have less spousal abuse, racism, and many other examples of people treating each other poorly. But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

It would be nice to have both. But I personally think that the decline of religion has little to do with and far more with the rise of social media. It has supercharged political divides and allows people to be dicks to each other anonymously. At some point that will spill over into the real world.

But tbh I don't see that much nastier in real life then I remember say 15-20 years ago.

I think social media has a lot to do with it. Definitely helps some people do the whole keyboard warrior asshattery but also because the audience is bigger. You might have 1 in 20 people in your social circle that don't agree with your opinion, the actual number is probably less because you probably won't hang out with people with differing views but go with me on this. Adding a bigger audience just increases that number, add into it keyboard warrior-itis and you get.....this society.

I will say that rural community's are better behaved though too, less population to hide in

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:

AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) said:

ShawnG said:

Boost_Crazy said:

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

But can't we have that AND be nicer to each other on a day to day basis? 

Careful...

We nailed a guy up for saying things like that.

Always look on the bright side of life!

Cheer up ya Bugger!

Life's a piece of E36 M3 when you look at it.

Could be worse... Could be stabbed...