Well I guess none of it matters now because they won't write a loan with the house needing repairs and they don't do rehab loans. So unless we can convince her dad to write a check, we're back to square one, looking at houses in worse school districts with less parking and room to work, in worse shape, for more money.
That was quick.
I don't understand why lenders refuse to be up front about E36 M3 like this, they always want to lead you on even though you've given them all the information, and then back out once they take the time to listen and understand the facts you tried to give them. I know how you feel, I had two different lenders each waste a full month of my time last year while trying to get a construction loan. They both ended up backing out based on info they had from the very beginning, like the address and location of the site.
Damn. That sucks. That looks like an awesome deal on an awesome property. My advice is don't give up until you've exhausted all possibilities. I had to jump through some tedious hoops to get my current place, but I'm very glad I did. That property at that price (that you're looking at) seems like its worth the struggle. Can you seek out a loan from a bank that is not so particular?
Make sure everything is up to code like plumbing and electrical especially. Some of the old electrical boxes are required to be replaced or sales cannot happen. Depends upon local codes though.
Also make sure the Previous owner didn't do some sort of repair that makes it uninsurable.
I almost bought a house that had new roof placed over the old cedar shake roof. My inspector caught it, my insurance company said I would have to completely replace the roof to get insurance so we backed out.
My real estate agent lied her butt off saying no one knew what they were talking about and even got someone at another insurance agency to forge a letter stating they would insure it. I walked away from the house and got a new real estate agent as well because she was truly commiting fraud.
I'm hoping to. Her dad already called me back with a place for a 203k loan. Which frankly I'm not excited about in the least, but supposedly still around 4% interest, so it might be a possibility. Waiting on a call back from her now.
I know I shouldn't be so upset about it, because I understand his position in things, but I'm honestly annoyed that her father, who I know for a fact has a net value in the low 7 figures, won't pay cash and let us pay him back, because her brother the berkeleyup hasn't paid him back for the $70k house he was a bought a few years ago. Especially when he has been on Dana about letting him buy her a house since her first child was born 12 years ago.
I better start jumping through some hoops to get my contractors license so I don't have to pay somebody else to do all the work, needing to pay someone else to do more than the boiler will make it prohibitively expensive.
You berkeleyers new from the moment we sat down to start this bullE36 M3 that it was a foreclosure that needed work. You saw it in the goddamn pictures. You don't get paid unless you write the loan, so why berkeley with people trying to get the loan? Do you also get paid for wasting peoples time and stressing them out?
RevRico said:I'm hoping to. Her dad already called me back with a place for a 203k loan. Which frankly I'm not excited about in the least, but supposedly still around 4% interest, so it might be a possibility. Waiting on a call back from her now.
I know I shouldn't be so upset about it, because I understand his position in things, but I'm honestly annoyed that her father, who I know for a fact has a net value in the low 7 figures, won't pay cash and let us pay him back, because her brother the berkeleyup hasn't paid him back for the $70k house he was a bought a few years ago. Especially when he has been on Dana about letting him buy her a house since her first child was born 12 years ago.
Possibly unpopular opinion: A net worth in the low 7 figures may make you in the top x percent, but it sure doesn't make you wealthy. Financially independent, possibly, but not wealthy. I can certainly understand and even defend his position here. Especially because it is that thinking that keeps his net worth in the low 7 figures and/or growing rather than letting it bleed dry.
In reply to mtn :
I'm not arguing his postition, I completely understand it. In proper investment portfolio, taking $100k out to buy a house that isn't for you just isn't worth the hassle. It just reminds me too much of the E36 M3 my grandfather was good at pulling over me and my dad. $8 million in investment account "you come to me when you're ready to start a business and we'll take care of things" "all this suffering and going without and dealing with everything with your dad will be taken care of when I die, everything is going to come back to you" "I'll always be there you can always come to me when you need help" and it was all nothing but bullE36 M3 to look good in front of the rest of the family before he died, then it all went to my dads useless scumberkeley vajajay of a brother.
It's just ringing those bells in the back of my head that despite his words, he maybe really doesn't give a E36 M3 about Dana or the kids, because that's what my grandfather was like.
I also understand since he got burned by her brother that the idea of possibly getting burned again doesn't sit well with him, I completely understand it, and kid or not, burning me on $60k would result in waking up in a river.
It's just frustrating tied with the useless bullE36 M3 artists at Wells who knew from the minute we sat down to talk about things how things were, but still felt the need to berkeley around for a couple of weeks just because they can.
I've had a lifetime supply of nice words, happy thoughts, and well wishes. I always always put my money where my berkeleying mouth is, I just expect the same in returm from people, and never ever get it coming back.
RevRico said:I know I shouldn't be so upset about it, because I understand his position in things, but I'm honestly annoyed that her father, who I know for a fact has a net value in the low 7 figures, won't pay cash and let us pay him back,
Not his responsibility.
In all honestly, we pointed out all this stuff to you in the previous thread between the condition of the house, inability to get your own financing, etc, etc, etc. I'd take this as the universe saying, "This isn't the right one to buy" and move on.
In reply to z31maniac :
Yea, I know. After 32 years of constantly being E36 M3 on I thought I was up for a win. God knows I'm berkeleying due one. Maybe it will come around again, but with there already an active offer for full price contingent on a rehab loan, I don't expect it to play out.
Lesson learned, never get excited for anything. Just accept that life is going to suck until that heart attack hits me then I won't have to worry about it anymore. My luck the heart attack won't kill me and I'll get to die in debt to the hospital years later.
Edit note: Of the 34 houses currently for sale in budget in the COUNTY that have 3 bedrooms and 1.5 or more bathrooms, including this one, 21 are foreclosures. Of the 13 remaining, 3 we're too white for the area, 2 are teardowns, and none have garages or parking.
In reply to RevRico :
You may be lasking for the wrong type of loan. You may need a construction loan since its a place that could be fixed up and "flipped".
A decent real estate agent that deals with commerical property should be able to make suggestions for alternatives.
RevRico said:In reply to z31maniac :
Yea, I know. After 32 years of constantly being E36 M3 on I thought I was up for a win. God knows I'm berkeleying due one. Maybe it will come around again, but with there already an active offer for full price contingent on a rehab loan, I don't expect it to play out.
Lesson learned, never get excited for anything. Just accept that life is going to suck until that heart attack hits me then I won't have to worry about it anymore. My luck the heart attack won't kill me and I'll get to die in debt to the hospital years later.
Edit note: Of the 34 houses currently for sale in budget in the COUNTY that have 3 bedrooms and 1.5 or more bathrooms, including this one, 21 are foreclosures. Of the 13 remaining, 3 we're too white for the area, 2 are teardowns, and none have garages or parking.
I wouldn't go full "nuke the world" just yet. When I bought my current house, I lost out on approximately 6 different homes I was prepared to put an offer on. And that wasn't needing a co-signer, didn't need a 203k loan or other special financing, or anything like that.
Homes that went under contract before we could look, one that didn't want us to counter with a higer offer than the one they had accepted, some that had issues we didn't know about until pulling the disclosures PLUS seeing them in person. I literally went to one house to look at, we walked out into the garage and the water heater had burst and was flooding their garage floor between the time the left for work and we got there to look. We had a home go under contract ON THE WAY TO OUR APPT TO VIEW IT!!!!
Long story short: Buying a house is a pain in the ass.
I had a bank pull the same maneuver on me, I was boned because I had put down $12k in earnest money with *NO*CONTINGENCIES* meaning if I didn't close I lost the money. Well, I hustled and got a Homestyle loan on the place and it worked out beautifully. Look into banks locally that offer Homestyle loans. The 203k is very similar. The only difficulty is that the work that is required must be performed by a licensed contractor. That and you need to have the quotes lined up prior to closing. The house is appraised as if the work has already been done, and the money to do the work is rolled into the loan and paid directly from the bank to the contractor once you and the appraiser have confirmed that the work is done.
If you're in contract on the house, do yourself a favor and start looking into local banks that offer either the Homestyle or 203k loans. Move fast and while there are a ton of hoops to jump through between today and closing be assured that it can happen!
Her dad isn't a contractor by chance is he? Because if he is, he can bid on the job and then you and he can manage subcontractors to get the jobs done. Just be aware that the bank won't pay until the job is totally done. They'll claim that they'll pay upon certain "milestones," but at least in my experience of one, the "milestone" was limited to "job is done." If you got 5 quotes to do 5 different things on the house, they will pay each of the 5 contractors as each of the 5 jobs is done. But none of this "materials are in, 50% billing" business. All or nothing. Not all contractors will work on that basis, and any that quote need to know that's what is going to happen.
I spent a few months going to overpriced houses I didn't plan on buying because I "just had to buy a house NOW!" and hated every second of it.
Was willing to up the budget by $5k or so, just to get in to the better neighborhoods, found a house, put in an offer to match w/ split fees; went to sleep, all giddy. Woke up to a no from our agent, there ended up being a bidding war the previous night. Not the last time this would happen, either.
Couple months or so later after looking at more E36 M3ty houses, my realtor was likely getting tired of me and told me another agent in her office has a seller that's getting ready to list his house in our price range in the area I wanted. We checked it out, we loved it (for the price and the schools), put in the offer, he accepted, did the inspection, he fixed it, and done. Lucked out extremely well that he apparently really didn't wanna go to market and deal with multiple buyers. I'd probably still be in an apartment if he decided to go to market.
I think from actually looking to finally owning the house, it was nearly a year or so.
In short, E36 M3 sucks. With you looking at foreclosures or houses that are gonna need a lot of work, it's gonna suck more than usual.
FuzzWuzzy said:I spent a few months going to overpriced houses I didn't plan on buying because I "just had to buy a house NOW!" and hated every second of it.
Was willing to up the budget by $5k or so, just to get in to the better neighborhoods, found a house, put in an offer to match w/ split fees; went to sleep, all giddy. Woke up to a no from our agent, there ended up being a bidding war the previous night. Not the last time this would happen, either.
Couple months or so later after looking at more E36 M3ty houses, my realtor was likely getting tired of me and told me another agent in her office has a seller that's getting ready to list his house in our price range in the area I wanted. We checked it out, we loved it (for the price and the schools), put in the offer, he accepted, did the inspection, he fixed it, and done. Lucked out extremely well that he apparently really didn't wanna go to market and deal with multiple buyers. I'd probably still be in an apartment if he decided to go to market.
I think from actually looking to finally owning the house, it was nearly a year or so.
In short, E36 M3 sucks. With you looking at foreclosures or houses that are gonna need a lot of work, it's gonna suck more than usual.
To add to the anecdotes, we looked at probably 15 houses (open houses or appointments), along with another 200+ online and quite a few spreadsheets determining values and stress tests and everything.
We had 3 houses that we would have put an offer in on, except they'd been purchased with cash prior to going on the market. The house that we live in now, we bougth for $345k (bottom of the barrel for our area - an empty lot across the street sold for more since we've bought it). They overpriced it to start. Had it at $400k. Then $395. Then $379. Then $375. When the lowered it to $365k, we gave them a lowball offer of $335k, and they countered at $350k with $5k cash back. The irony of it all? When it was first listed, they had an offer for $365k. Cash.
My dad bought a foreclosure, with cash. It took a year between the time his bid was accepted and the time he actually owned it. This was due to multiple lawsuits from the prior owner. But it can be a gigantic PITA.
I dont know if you already looked into this, but it sounds like you need a mortgage broker instead of a bank. Tell them everything and see if they can find a loan for you.
MrJoshua said:I dont know if you already looked into this, but it sounds like you need a mortgage broker instead of a bank. Tell them everything and see if they can find a loan for you.
Good advice. Just because one place pre approved you doesn't mean that you have to deal with them. Shop around.
In general, if most of your options are going to need work to be considered "livable" by a lender then conventional mortgages are pretty much out of the question. You'll likely need a construction loan, 203k, Homestyle etc. Others have covered the details and drawbacks of those pretty well. But if you're dealing with a broker, tell them what you'll likely need. It will narrow the choices significantly and save everybody some time/hassle.
Also, don't get discouraged. That house isn't out of the picture yet. If it doesn't work out there will always be another house. We dragged our very patient realtor through over 40 houses, put offers on 8, had one offer that was accepted but didn't work out after the inspection before we found our current home. We could've made some of the houses work just fine, but we truly ended up better off in the current place than any of the ones we missed out on. Don't lose hope!
Another +1 on looking into other financing options before giving up. There are tons of options and just because one is an a-hole doesn't mean you can't find an institution that will treat you right.
Like others have said, try to find out the institution that the contractors use in your area. You'll likely have more success.
In reply to RevRico :
There are winners and losers in Real estate. Winners know to take the long view. Deal with the frustrations professionally, accept that those who have the gold make the rules.
Losers quit when things get difficult or complicated. Don't go the way you want.
Owning your own home is a winning move. Your payment stays the same until you change it. ( That's really sweet 20+!years later when your payment is almost pocket change ) * no the payment doesn't go down, with inflation it just seems that way. Unlike renting, Rent today is higher than payments on a big fancy house was 20 years ago. The interest on the loan is deductible from your taxes so you effectively are subsidized by the Government.
To own a home where you want to live is wonderful. To own a home with features you like or want is double wonderful.
To buy it at a deep discount is just icing on the cake.
you have three moves left.
Quit
Find a Loan broker
Find another bank / credit union.
Will you be taken advantage of ?
Very likely. Most are. Well maybe if you buy 10's of millions of dollars worth of real estate at a time you won't. But that's not you or most people.
Next time when you talk to the loan broker/ officer try to comply with what he's asking of you. Don't fight him on things. You won't win. Remember the Golden rule.
He who has the gold makes the rules.
ps When you go to closing and they are shoving paper after paper at you to sign most of which you don't understand or think you are being screwed, there are two ways to go,
1st the slow painful way, have them explain everything to your complete satisfaction.
2nd turn it into a game to see how quick you can sign everything. ( I call it ripping off the bandage). My record is under 7 minutes.
Then gather all the papers up, and take them to a real estate lawyer. You have 3 days to void everything. Sometimes I've gotten free advice ( first visit is free) sometimes I paid a couple of hundred dollars for a complete assessment.
In the end he will find one or two items he's willing to fight in court.
Now comes the decision time.
1 st do you still want the house and are willing to pay that amount to own it, or do you want out of the deal?
2nd how much will the lawyer charge you to get whatever refund he thinks you have coming?
Remember you have time to back out of the deal.
frenchyd said:Your payment stays the same until you change it. ( That's really sweet 20+!years later when your payment is almost pocket change ) * no the payment doesn't go down, with inflation it just seems that way.
Just to point out, yes the principal and interest payment (the actual mortgage) will stay the same. But you'll likley see property taxes and HO insurance rise pretty regularly. So even though those last two aren't the mortgage, I still count them as "part of the payment," since if I don't pay those, I don't get to keep the house.
In this situation especially. The property would greatly increase in value after the renovations are done and it's livable. So that means 12-24 months after move in, he will watch the property tax bill balloon.
In reply to z31maniac :
You could be right about that, Well to a certain degree you are, but how much really depends on factors way out of your control and some in your control.
If the house is simply repaired and functional that should not increase property taxes. They didn't decrease it when the heat went out or the plumbing started to leak. If they do increase taxes you have a winning argument.
That argument loses value when the community improves. But it's not like you aren't getting something for your money. Home values increase with civic improvements or a new businesses increases demand.
Same with insurance. Insurance typically is a small part of your payment. Even still the buildings depreciate with age while the land appreciates with inflation. The best way to ensure your insurance is as cheap as possible is shop for a new policy every time the renewal is higher. At some point it may be wise to add one of those supplemental policies. Rather than allowing yourself to be underinsured. Those are simple math problems.
Some nonsensical rambling is mixed with newer information in this post.
So I was just going to drop this thread because frustrated and annoyed. But then my phone rang this morning, and around the stabbing pain in my shoulder, I heard Her Father has had an epiphany.
Apparently the 203k loan we inquired about yesterday mircaulously went from "Around 4%" to 7.5%. BERK THAT NOISE. So he took himself a look at the stuff for sale in the county, and saw the deluge of foreclosures that would need repo loans, the $100k trailers, and the houses in the hood, and decided that things would be a lot easier if he just bought the house cash and had us pay him back. The way Dana expected it to happen a few months ago when we started looking. Not his preferred way, obviously, but definitely the easiest way for us, in the short run. This does, I think leave a window open for a cashout refinance in the future, but those rates are ridiculous, and I'm one of those people expecting another 2008 level financial crisis, so probably not a thing that will happen.
He would want $600/month, without charging us interest. We would be paying him $750/month, plus $5k at tax refund time every year. Either one of us alone can manage those payments, and while it won't help our credit, it can let me focus on fixing Dana's in the meantime.
As I was typing this post, I got calls from the realtor. We have lost our spot in line, and there is a higher offer than ours based as a rehab loan, but with us offering the $89k in cold hard cash instead of a risky loan, it seems about 50/50 again.
I'm not getting my hopes up again, I've learned that lesson repeatedly, but it does seem like it may work out for us. While I do want this place, badly, I have already accepted that it could be several more years until we actually move if this place falls through. Theres just nothing worth buying even above our budget. We will NOT live on top of our neighbors, we will NOT live in a trailer, and I will NOT have less working/parking space than I do now. That rather limits our options, but it seems ridiculously stupid to spend house money on something no one wants. I'm already miserable, I'm not going to pay to downgrade.
So now it's back to playing the wait and see game. I think I'm going to shutoff everything but the xbox come end of business today until Monday, just to distance myself and unstress a bit.
I'm a little confused by a couple of things. If they accepted your offer in writing, the property is yours until you tell them you are walking away from it. They can get 100 offers, it's too late. Unless the seller had contingencies, which I've never experienced.
you sound like you have a bit of a temper. Buying a house will test the patience of anybody. They will be calling you everyday wanting something you may have already sent. You need to chill.
I hope you get the house!
spitfirebill said:I'm a little confused by a couple of things. If they accepted your offer in writing, the property is yours until you tell them you are walking away from it. They can get 100 offers, it's too late. Unless the seller had contingencies, which I've never experienced.
you sound like you have a bit of a temper. Buying a house will test the patience of anybody. They will be calling you everyday wanting something you may have already sent. You need to chill.
I hope you get the house!
This. Although I don't remember reading anything about giving them earnest money with the offer, so if that's the case, the offer was never really accepted.
deleted.
spitfirebill said:I'm a little confused by a couple of things. If they accepted your offer in writing, the property is yours until you tell them you are walking away from it. They can get 100 offers, it's too late. Unless the seller had contingencies, which I've never experienced.
you sound like you have a bit of a temper. Buying a house will test the patience of anybody. They will be calling you everyday wanting something you may have already sent. You need to chill.
I hope you get the house!
The seller accepted our offer on a mortgage preapproval from Wells Fargo. Wells Fargo, who today had two execs handed $40M in fines for illegal business practices btw, decided AFTER we submitted our offer that the problems we told them about BEFORE they preapproved us would prevent us from getting the mortgage, like they were brand new things that just magically appeared. After 2 weeks of waiting, and hours of phonecalls full of nonanswers. Answering yes or no questions with "wellll..." or "the thing is" or "We want this so you're paying for it" is a surefire way to set me off. I don't like people. I don't like banks. I especially don't like people that work for corrupt banks.
I'm about at my wits end from a plethora of E36 M3 that's been building up since I was forced to move back to PA, particularly the forced to move back to PA thing. I honestly couldn't tell you the last time I was able to actually relax or felt genuinely happy without an intense feeling of "now what the berk is going to happen?". I haven't had a real vacation in almost 20 years, and even then, a good part of it was spent at a dialysis clinic. I'm sick and tired of needing to be the rock for the rest of the world, when there is no one or nothing around to actually support me when I need the help. And yet when I try to do anything for myself, by myself, I'm a selfish prick for not thinking of others and not putting everyone else first and I'm sick of it. My entire life has been working to do things everyone else thinks I need to do, for them, as it will "better me". All it has done has turned me into a misanthropic, bald, grey cynic. Then there is the fun floundery topics I won't get into, but suffice to say, my stress levels don't need any more external stimulus.
I should have bought that fenced in square mile in Northern Nevada when I had a chance. I might not have a house, I wouldn't have the kid or the woman, but I'd be alone, surrounded by quiet, with my successes and failures tied exclusively to me instead of a boss or a relationship or any other external sources, which is really all I've ever wanted out of life, but that's not the life we're "supposed" to have. We're "supposed" to be good little worker bees, toiling away endlessly trying to make those above us richer and pretending like we want any of the materialistic bullE36 M3 that it comes with.
I will openly admit, I'm not in a good place. But I've never been in a good place. It's just really starting to wear down what little perseverance I have left to keep trying to play by someone elses rules, only for the rules to change partway through the game.
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