Unemployed Again

Beer Baron wrote: I could very happily go to work for the company that supplied my cleaning and sanitation chemicals, mixing up batches of caustic soda and boiler water treatment.

Curious who that supplier was?

SVreX wrote: You would probably: - start as a production worker. It's a bit of grunt work, but nothing worse than you've seen, and it probably starts off paying a bit more. If you tell them you are a brewmaster, THEY will know what that means and how well your skills will transfer. - Then, you can work your way up to a shift leader, and keep learning about processes that differ from your brewing experience. But it's all basic chemistry, which you already know (even if you don't know you know it). - Then, depending on your strengths and interests, you could be a blender (not hard, just needs to have the right touch). - OR, you could move to pilot scale. Chemists develop processes in the lab, then the Pilot Lab makes the first attempts at scale-up. They do complex small scale production, trying to see if the processes can make it to production scale. They are kind of a cross between chemists and production workers, but they get to use the coolest sciencey tools and equipment!

That totally sounds right up my alley. If I can keep a lauter/sparge/runoff in equilibrium for 2-hours strait, I think I can get the right touch for blending. I already have contacts with two local chemical companies. One of which I have discussed custom blends and talked about the relative merits of surfactant levels in blends causing issues with foaming when dealing with brews that left heavy residue on tank ceilings. Turns out my contact is... the local General Manager.

For reference, I made $37k/year with no benefits (no medical, retirement, nothing; just free beer at the bar, which chances are I'll get dragged into fixing or troubleshooting something), and no overtime pay.

NOHOME wrote:

Beer Baron wrote: I could very happily go to work for the company that supplied my cleaning and sanitation chemicals, mixing up batches of caustic soda and boiler water treatment.

Curious who that supplier was?

ChemStation is the one I've worked with most. Also a fair amount with Enerco. A bit with AquaScience.

SVreX wrote: I used to work for a custom chemical company- You'ld be PERFECT. Its basically brewing and blending with a broader range of creative products and solutions, more brain power on your support team, and much cooler equipment to perform much more varied chemistry. Not sure how much chemical production is going on in Columbus, but it's a huge industry with a LOT of different facets and specialties.

That made me think of a guy I used to work with in the label printing industry. He mixed ink colors to a ridiculous degree of perfection. It was central to every single job we did - and he was a berkeleying primadonna shiny happy person about it. But, he got paid better than everyone else and he was left to his own devices like some kind of mad scientist as long as the QA team didn't find anything out of order. I think he died of liver cancer. Probably from all the horrific chemicals in the inks we used. Maybe because he came in drunk every day. Who knows. On second thought... that was a horrible job and I can't really recommend it.

In reply to JohnRW1621:

I came to suggest approaching a restaurant about producing a selection of house brews. Have 2-3 that are always available and another 2-3 that are seasonal/limited release in rotation.

In reply to Huckleberry:

The chemicals we consume daily are much more vast than the beer that we drink.

Some companies suck. Some are pretty good.

Chemical manufacturing is not a horrible job- it is a perfect job for someone who has the right skillset for it.

Sorry it didn't work out. I'll 3rd the idea of approaching a restaurant for small batch craft brews, customer teaching days kinda thing.

Beer Baron wrote: For reference, I made $37k/year with *no* benefits (no medical, retirement, nothing; just free beer at the bar, which chances are I'll get dragged into fixing or troubleshooting something), and no overtime pay.

For reference, the starting chemical production workers at the plant I worked at were probably paid comparably, but they DID have medical, 401K, and plenty of overtime. No free beer.

But I am not in Columbus. I doubt a craft brewer in my area would make more then $25K.

My personal theory is that the craft beer world is mostly a fad that is reaching its critical mass and will either implode or reduce over the next 5 years. Not go away entirely, but only the strong will survive. Just like skateboards, or ab machines, or anything really. (Hipsters are already back to drinking pbr and malt liquor, and just imagine the business hell Budweiser can bring on microbreweries when the 'cool meter' shifts away from micro and back to bud.)

You might be getting out at the right time. I certainly wouldn't be considering opening my own brewery or brew pub right now, and I am highly entrepreneurial.

For reference, the starting chemical production workers at the plant I worked at were probably paid comparably, but they DID have medical, 401K, and plenty of overtime. No free beer. But I am not in Columbus. I doubt a craft brewer in my area would make more then $25K.

That is about what I expected. Health insurance is worth more than beer. I'd also guess that there are more growth, promotion, and raise opportunities. The jobs that pay >$40k/yr as a brewer are pretty sparse.

Robbie wrote: My personal theory is that the craft beer world is mostly a fad that is reaching its critical mass and will either implode or reduce over the next 5 years. Not go away entirely, but only the strong will survive. Just like skateboards, or ab machines, or anything really. (Hipsters are already back to drinking pbr and malt liquor, and just imagine the business hell Budweiser can bring on microbreweries when the 'cool meter' shifts away from micro and back to bud.) You might be getting out at the right time. I certainly wouldn't be considering opening my own brewery or brew pub right now, and I am highly entrepreneurial.

I have been reading those tea leaves as well. My personal theory is a bit different, but the end result is the same. It's not a fad, but the growth it has been experiencing is unsustainable, and the market will shake things out pretty soon.

There was a craft implosion back in the 90's. I'm seeing echoes of that again. It's not about the consumers, it's about the suppliers. Craft has been seeing double-digit growth for a while now, and craft breweries have been seen as a "sure thing" for investors. Which means lots of people are trying to get in on the bandwagon and not paying attention to actual quality and ingenuity. I'm seeing breweries exploding with unsustainable growth, with the apparent business model of grow as big as you can, as fast as you can, then sell out to one of the big guys as an "established" regional brand.

That's forced growth, not organic. The market isn't going to stand for that for long.

Ultimately. I'm prepared to get out because a job is a job. A job needs to be relatively enjoyable and play to your personal strengths, but it does not have to be where you find "fulfillment" or explore your creativity or anything. That can be nice, but usually there are too many strings attached when the lines between "work" and "passion" are blurred. I'd just as soon have the free time to devote to hobbies.

I know that making automotive references and associations when branding products that contain alcohol is frowned upon, but I for one look forward to the following offerings from you:

Piston slap porter

Sebring saison

Mustang malt liquor

Leman hard lemonade

Indy Amber Ale

Challenge IPA

Pipe Burn Pils

Long header Lager

Robbie wrote: My personal theory is that the craft beer world is mostly a fad that is reaching its critical mass and will either implode or reduce over the next 5 years. Not go away entirely, but only the strong will survive. Just like skateboards, or ab machines, or anything really. (Hipsters are already back to drinking pbr and malt liquor, and just imagine the business hell Budweiser can bring on microbreweries when the 'cool meter' shifts away from micro and back to bud.) You might be getting out at the right time. I certainly wouldn't be considering opening my own brewery or brew pub right now, and I am highly entrepreneurial.

Meh. The people who are drinking PBR were never at any of the "cool" places anyway. They are at the cheap dive bars, that I also love, because of cheap PBR and whiskey ($5 for a PBR and shot of Jameson!).........not to pay $7.50 for a pint of locally brewed IPA.

At least that's my experience locally in the Tulsa area.

Ok, here's a thought to pursue. Talk to those that produce the equipment for brewing. I think the constantly changing challenge of technical sales (support for the guy actually doing the sales) might fit you. They get the sale, you answer the tech questions and maybe go in and do setup and training. Help people get things up and running, teach them the right way but dont be there long term to eat the stress of when they try to cut corners.

Sounds to me like you are a troubleshooter and process engineer, this is what I do for a living (despite having mocked the very concept of a process engineer for most of my life), just in a different industry. It is very difficult to be of that mindset in a set position for a long time. Its much more enjoyable to get the new challenges that come with each new job rather than fixing the same old thing over and over again because someone doesn't listen.

It would require travel no doubt so you'd have to be up to that, but it sounds like it would be right up your alley and as a bonus you might stumble into setting up the equipment for a company that does fit you and chooses to "snipe" you away from your employer.

Beer Baron wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: I've been a CNA, carpenter, and now locksmith. I'm not rich but I know that I have job security and I get to help a community that I'm kind of attached to.

All these through the VA? I'm fine with that. Carpenter or Locksmith are both jobs I'd be interested in. I'm not looking to be rich. I'm looking to do okay. I've got no kids and no debt. It doesn't take a lot for me to be comfortable.

Yeah, all with the VA.

Have a look at www.usajobs.gov and see if anything interests you. Literally ALL federal jobs run through that site.

You can make $12.5 and hour with full benefits stocking shelves in any Amazon warehouse. Expect the work to make you lose weight and be mindless. But the benefits are good.

JThw8 wrote: Ok, here's a thought to pursue. Talk to those that produce the equipment for brewing. I think the constantly changing challenge of technical sales (support for the guy actually doing the sales) might fit you. They get the sale, you answer the tech questions and maybe go in and do setup and training. Help people get things up and running, teach them the right way but dont be there long term to eat the stress of when they try to cut corners. Sounds to me like you are a troubleshooter and process engineer, this is what I do for a living (despite having mocked the very concept of a process engineer for most of my life), just in a different industry. It is very difficult to be of that mindset in a set position for a long time. Its much more enjoyable to get the new challenges that come with each new job rather than fixing the same old thing over and over again because someone doesn't listen. It would require travel no doubt so you'd have to be up to that, but it sounds like it would be right up your alley and as a bonus you might stumble into setting up the equipment for a company that does fit you and chooses to "snipe" you away from your employer.

Yup. Troubleshooting and process engineering sounds like what I'm most into. Having that sort of practical challenge appeals to me, no matter what industry it's in.

I could see myself selling equipment or materials supply. I just don't see myself selling wine or beer to bars. I'm too critical and opinionated about beer.

One thing that was getting to me is just that I couldn't complain about work and I couldn't totally unwind at bars or restaurants. Even with most of my local friends, because the brewing industry is so personal. When someone asks, "how's everything going at the brewery?" no matter what, you have to smile and be positive. You don't have the freedom to say, "My [boss/coworker] did [something stupid] and it's pissing me off. Who knows what problems it will cause." Those are your customers, and you can't make the company look bad.

You are going to to get a ton of advice from those of us who care about you. Here's mine.

You lost a job that you have been working very hard at and cared about. You are going to go through a grieving process like people do with any loss. I am guessing you are tired.

Give yourself a little time and space to to go through the normal grief stages. Then worry about the next job.

I totally hear you about not being able to talk to friends about work. I worked for a utility. Almost all my friends were customers.

Beer Baron wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: I've been a CNA, carpenter, and now locksmith. I'm not rich but I know that I have job security and I get to help a community that I'm kind of attached to.

All these through the VA? I'm fine with that. Carpenter or Locksmith are both jobs I'd be interested in. I'm not looking to be rich. I'm looking to do okay. I've got no kids and no debt. It doesn't take a lot for me to be comfortable.

Note, that "carpenter" in a VA Medical Center is NOT what most people think.

My company does a lot of medical work. The guys who do this are primarily in the business of caulking and sealing smoke walls and fire partitions, and installing handrails. They spend half their time crawling above ceilings in contorted positions, and half their time dealing with dust and infectious disease control (try doing demolition in an environment that prohibits a single spore from transferring from the work area to the patient area). It's air conditioned, pays well, and has good benefits, but it is boring as hell.

We have a crew of 5 men right now working in a medical center on a job they could easily finish in 30 days, being told to stretch it to 7 months, because the funding is a use-it-or-loose it scenario. They spend 4 days "inspecting", "documenting", and "planning a course of action" for every 1 hour worth of work they do. These guys are climbing the walls.

I am certified to work in medical facilities, but I don't do it. It would drive me crazy.

(You would probably like my job, but I am not giving it up. )

You could get a manufacturing job in Marysville. I spent a couple weeks on the line there. They pay well enough, the work is easy (but you will be sore for a couple weeks at first), benefits are good, consistent hours, and you will have TONS of time to think about what you want to do next.

Green Hell IPA, a 12.9 ABV IPA brewed with German Hops.

Type Q wrote: You lost a job that you have been working very hard at and cared about. You are going to go through a grieving process like people do with any loss. I am guessing you are tired.

Thanks, man. "Grieving" is a good way of putting it.

SVreX wrote:

Beer Baron wrote:

KyAllroad wrote: I've been a CNA, carpenter, and now locksmith. I'm not rich but I know that I have job security and I get to help a community that I'm kind of attached to.

All these through the VA? I'm fine with that. Carpenter or Locksmith are both jobs I'd be interested in. I'm not looking to be rich. I'm looking to do okay. I've got no kids and no debt. It doesn't take a lot for me to be comfortable.

Note, that "carpenter" in a VA Medical Center is NOT what most people think. My company does a lot of medical work. The guys who do this are primarily in the business of caulking and sealing smoke walls and fire partitions, and installing handrails. They spend half their time crawling above ceilings in contorted positions, and half their time dealing with dust and infectious disease control (try doing demolition in an environment that prohibits a single spore from transferring from the work area to the patient area). It's air conditioned, pays well, and has good benefits, but it is boring as hell. We have a crew of 5 men right now working in a medical center on a job they could easily finish in 30 days, being told to stretch it to 7 months, because the funding is a use-it-or-loose it scenario. They spend 4 days "inspecting", "documenting", and "planning a course of action" for every 1 hour worth of work they do. These guys are climbing the walls. I am certified to work in medical facilities, but I don't do it. It would drive me crazy. (You would probably like my job, but I am not giving it up. )

My first instinct was to propose work in the Fed but the way Beer Baron talks made me pause. Federal government work for non military is driven a lot by budget. If you have to do a roof you want to spend $100,000 to do a good roof on that facility while putting in controls to ENSURE 100% protection from known risks to the employees and citizens inside. Walmart can damage your car during a roof job and just buy you a new one. On a federal government contract a damaged car can suck in politics (senate, mayor, governor), lobbists, or just scapegoating. So when Sequestration hits (which by the way is still going on in some form) your budget is cut to $84,000 but you MUST proceed with the contract, because in the Fed you can't save a lot of the money by law it must be spent by x date. So you end up having to do an ok roof as best you can.

Doing that OK job might not be something you can swallow based on your description of feelings about past jobs.

An industry that seems to focus a lot on doing the best over anything is the Medical Devices or Medicine industry. Maybe look that way.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: You can make $12.5 and hour with full benefits stocking shelves in any Amazon warehouse. Expect the work to make you lose weight and be mindless. But the benefits are good.

My local Walmart pays 12.90 - 13.10 starting for overnight stockers. That just seems insane for that job but they say it's impossible to hire.

Edit: I asked my wife's cousin if he knew of anything, they both live in new Albany and know lots of people. Good luck!