Unmanned Aerial Vehicles

UAVs.

If the Moderators deem this political or floundering, please delete it. This discussion came up yeaterday and more than a few interesting points of view were presented.

We've all seen the drones used by the military to see what's happening on the other side of the fence, they work well and do what they are supposed to. That multi-million dollar technology has filtered down to the GrassRoots level. Shrinking electronics, better propulsion, new materials make it so. The FAA is under pressure from the Homeland Security folks to relax restrictions on UAV activity within domestic airspace, these are currently considered "experimental". Current regs mandate a height no more than 400 feet and within line of sight of the operator.

The U.S. Senate passed a bill that forces the FAA to expand the list of approved manufacturers and licensing easier and permit virtually unrestricted flight by any "public safety agency". Your local cops?

The Americal Civil Liberties Union is concerned.

The potential for misuse is part of the problem. What happens when a news agency or even the neighborhood busy-body can buy a hummingbird sized eye in the sky to peek into your backyard?

In February the owner of an estate in South Carolina hosted a bird hunt for some friends. An animal rights group used a UAV to fly over the property to document "cruel and abusive behavior". One of the hunters took out the flying camera with a shotgun causing it to crash onto a highway. Will the danger of falling drone debris be a problem?

I understand the need and agree with the use of UAVs, when does it become an invasion or illegal? If you are a cop is it illegal?

http://www.infiniteunknown.net/2011/03/04/pentagon-contractor-aerovironment-developed-worlds-first-hummingbird-spy-drone/

http://www.avinc.com/

I have my opinion on this one, but I am keeping it to myself.

Counter UAV, standing by.

Seriously, this is a big issue. Sounds like it may fall under "unreasonable search and seizure". It's reasonable to expect privacy on your property.

I'm stopping with that, because it's already dangerously close to a funny looking fish.

correct answer again

plus it will hunt, capture, torture and kill that funny looking bird drone above

In reply to fasted58:

HAHA excellent!

I do think that can be some serious problems with the use of UAVs.

Same issue comes up with spy cameras, hidden cameras, Google Street View, Satellite images for sale and webcams. Eventually, the only place you can expect to have a reasonable assumption of privacy is in your designated safe room or bomb shelter.

Derick Freese wrote: Sounds like it may fall under "unreasonable search and seizure". It's reasonable to expect privacy on your property.

Agreed. I would like to believe a search warrant would be required. Granted, given the use of satellites, it's a fuzzy area.

There's a difference between being able to hover over my back yard to see what I'm planting in my veggie garden and taking pictures with a car mounted camera from the road.

If I ever have access to one of these, I'll end up on the no-fly list in no time. Probably end up in some undisclosed location for an undetermined amount of time. If you guys don't see me around for a few months, this is likely why.

It's just one more small thing on the list.

from my R/C airplane from my kite

...working on learning to control the R/C helicopter

It's reasonable to expect privacy on your property.

Except the police can and do already use helicopters, so no, it's not entirely reasonable to expect that.

The problem with these things that replicate things the police can already do, is that at some point their ubiquity passes a threshold where statistical analyses of the behavior of groups and individuals allows for something greater than the sum of its parts. You know, "I see you were at the grocery store the same time as Bob The Terrorist four times in a row. The probability of this happening by chance is 1:1000. You are now on our terrorist watch list."

Derick Freese wrote: Sounds like it may fall under "unreasonable search and seizure". It's reasonable to expect privacy on your property.

" In Florida v. Riley, the United States Supreme Court held that individuals on their own, private property do not have right to privacy from police observation from public airspace. " - wikipedia entry on drones

I have fantasized about building my own UAV. I want one that will autonomously follow my car and give me line of site on any speed traps, accidents or, other hazards....

hmm passing some slow flat-lander on a blind corner wouldn't be scary if I could see around the corner before I went for the pass...

There are a lot of off the shelf parts that would make it relatively easy, I mean, how hard could it be ?

"It was terribly dangerous to let your thoughts wander when you were in any public place or within range of a telescreen. The smallest thing could give you away. A nervous tic, an unconscious look of anxiety, a habit of muttering to yourself--anything that carried with it the suggestion of abnormality, of having something to hide. In any case, to wear an improper expression on your face...; was itself a punishable offense. There was even a word for it in Newspeak: facecrime...". - George Orwell, 1984, Book 1, Chapter 5

slightly on topic...

At school I sat in on a presentation given by a student who was working at WPAFB. She was studying birds and working on mechanisms for 'flapping wing flight' or whatever they were calling it. The idea was (is) to have UAVs that look completely like birds and would be hidden in plain sight.

When she was done with her presentation and opened it up for questions the first one was, "What happens when the bad guys find out about these and start shooting all the birds?" She didn't have an answer.

It will do two things:

Catch bad guys. Catch paranoid guys.

Oh and: Catch pictures of your wife sunbathing.

JoeyM wrote:

Derick Freese wrote: Sounds like it may fall under "unreasonable search and seizure". It's reasonable to expect privacy on your property.

" In Florida v. Riley, the United States Supreme Court held that individuals on their own, private property do not have right to privacy from police observation from public airspace. " - wikipedia entry on drones

So, it'll get to the point where the average citizen will need to install camo netting over their yard (if bylaws allow it, that is)? I have an irrational fear (is irrational though?) of the future as it is and it's not getting any smaller.

In the city I live in, there is a spy plane that patrols the skies and I've had it following me (this is not wide-eyed paranoia) while innocently walking my two dogs around the neighborhood at night. I do not like this one bit.

Another big problem with drones outside unrestricted airspace is that they can't sense and avoid other aircraft. Hence the need for a ground observer.

Osterkraut wrote: Another big problem with drones outside unrestricted airspace is that they can't sense and avoid other aircraft. Hence the need for a ground observer.

They are a menace to navigation. What is going to happen when patrolman ding dong flies it into an airliner?

pilotbraden wrote:

Osterkraut wrote: Another big problem with drones outside unrestricted airspace is that they can't sense and avoid other aircraft. Hence the need for a ground observer.

They are a menace to navigation. What is going to happen when patrolman ding dong flies it into an airliner?

Police officers have the finest of training, duh! Seriously, though, this seems like a terrible idea. They won't just be plowing into airliners; they will also smash into homes, vehicles, playgrounds, people, schools, etc.

pilotbraden wrote: What is going to happen when patrolman ding dong flies it into an airliner?

[ public ]

We can't stand for this! People's lives are at stake! Do they really need these drones anyway? We should have congressional heari.....wait!!! You say Paris Hilton just crashed her car again?!? Wow, tell me all about it!

[ /public ]

rotard wrote: Police officers have the finest of training, duh! Seriously, though, this seems like a terrible idea. They won't just be plowing into airliners; they will also smash into homes, vehicles, playgrounds, people, schools, etc.

Is there a range of sizes we're talking about? I'm thinking that these small UAV's are basically bird-sized.

Birds smash into homes, vehicles, planes, etc all the time. Not that I want the cops flying around in or immediately above my backyard.

UAV hunting sounds like a fun hobby.

Privacy laws have been compromised since the ill named Patriot Act was passed. If you want your right to privacy back start fighting against this type of surveillance. No matter what it's original intent was it will be used to spy on everyone.

Isn't it time we stopped using terrorism or crime as an excuse to give away our civil rights?

cghstang wrote:

rotard wrote: Police officers have the finest of training, duh! Seriously, though, this seems like a terrible idea. They won't just be plowing into airliners; they will also smash into homes, vehicles, playgrounds, people, schools, etc.

Is there a range of sizes we're talking about? I'm thinking that these small UAV's are basically bird-sized. Birds smash into homes, vehicles, planes, etc all the time. Not that I want the cops flying around in or immediately above my backyard.

Birds are wild animals. They have this instinctive ability to fly, and are probably better at it than your average police officer. I wouldn't want either running into me while I'm in my car or on motorcycle or walking down the street. That deputy is also out in what looks like "the middle of nowhere, everything is brownish tan Mesa county."