Well $1.266 Billion aint GRM

I think this guy - Scott Tucker and his payday loan stuff has been discussed here.

Well a judge has decided he needs to pay $1.266 billion to the FTC for what he did!!!

TC vs Scott Tucker

Which begs the question, if you could live like he did for the years he did with the knowledge that you'd lose it all, would you? We lose it all anyway, but he also got to have it all for a while.
This assumes you're ok with the moral side of his business.

The professional in me would never call him a berkeleying shiny happy person that makes the world worse for everyone.

So I won't.

mazdeuce wrote: This assumes you're ok with the moral side of his business.

That's a pretty big assumption. I think pay day lending is a strong contender for the most vile, evil, despicable thing that is still legal in this country.

Couldn't have happened to a better person. True Justice would involve a 700% APR on the penalties.

Which is why I put the disclaimer in.

A piece from our friend Steven Cole Smith about Tucker.

In reply to David S. Wallens:

Link is dead, sir.

Try it now.

payday loans are basically indentured servitude. The more you use them, the more you need them, and eventually all your cheque goes to them.

I listened to a dinner with racers podcast with somebody from level 5 and some of the stories of how he threw money at problems was amazing.

mazdeuce wrote: Which begs the question, if you could live like he did for the years he did with the knowledge that you'd lose it all, would you? We lose it all anyway, but he also got to have it all for a while. This assumes you're ok with the moral side of his business.

If I got the money for free from, like, a billionaire that wasn't using it anyway, then yes. If I had to get the money by loading up tens of thousands of already impoverished people with insane rapacious debt, then absolutely not.

Making this guy as poor as the people he preyed upon is the least that should be done as a punishment.

moparman76_69 wrote: I listened to a dinner with racers podcast with somebody from level 5 and some of the stories of how he threw money at problems was amazing.

That episode was hilarious...basically a story about how this team brought LMP1-level technology and manpower to a race where the usual level of technology and manpower is about what you'd see in Spec Miata.

I was more playing with the idea that there are certain people who make it very very big doing things that can only end in complete collapse. Drug dealers, inside traders, crooked politicians. They don't generally get to stash away a bit of money and bow out, they ride it until they lose absolutely everything. At some point they know this but continue racing cars or whatever until the bitter end. It's kind of fascinating really.

That was a good article and the DWR Level 5 episode was my favorite. Anyone who has not listened to should.

mazdeuce wrote: I was more playing with the idea that there are certain people who make it very very big doing things that can only end in complete collapse. Drug dealers, inside traders, crooked politicians. They don't generally get to stash away a bit of money and bow out, they ride it until they lose absolutely everything. At some point they know this but continue racing cars or whatever until the bitter end. It's kind of fascinating really.

people who pull those kinds of scams are not normal people. They think they are better than the rest of us, smarter, more crafty, or just simply "too big to fail" and think they will never get caught, or if they do, will be able to weasel out with a slap on the wrist.

It's all a big game.. and he finally lost

mad_machine wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: I was more playing with the idea that there are certain people who make it very very big doing things that can only end in complete collapse. Drug dealers, inside traders, crooked politicians. They don't generally get to stash away a bit of money and bow out, they ride it until they lose absolutely everything. At some point they know this but continue racing cars or whatever until the bitter end. It's kind of fascinating really.

people who pull those kinds of scams are not normal people. They think they are better than the rest of us, smarter, more crafty, or just simply "too big to fail" and think they will never get caught, or if they do, will be able to weasel out with a slap on the wrist.

And 99% of the time they're right on that last point

Any of you guys listen to the freakanomics podcast about payday loans? I thought it was really interesting and they made it seem the loans aren't as evil as you may think:

http://freakonomics.com/podcast/payday-loans/

GameboyRMH wrote:

mazdeuce wrote: Which begs the question, if you could live like he did for the years he did with the knowledge that you'd lose it all, would you? We lose it all anyway, but he also got to have it all for a while. This assumes you're ok with the moral side of his business.

If I got the money for free from, like, a billionaire that wasn't using it anyway, then yes. If I had to get the money by loading up tens of thousands of already impoverished people with insane rapacious debt, then absolutely not. Making this guy as poor as the people he preyed upon is the least that should be done as a punishment.

I doubt they will be able to get to all of his money. Unless he was catastrophically stupid, he has millions stashed offshore as a hedge against things going south on him.

It would be nice to picture him in a one room efficiency, shivering in the dark because his power had been cut as his guts churn with hunger, dissatisfied with the Ramen noodle diet he was reduced to.....but the reality is that he'll be just fine at a personal level. Scumbag.

mazdeuce wrote: Which begs the question, if you could live like he did for the years he did with the knowledge that you'd lose it all, would you? We lose it all anyway, but he also got to have it all for a while. This assumes you're ok with the moral side of his business.

The grand irony here is that this guy turns out to be more on the up and up than our mainstream banks such as Wells Fargo.

Enyar wrote: Any of you guys listen to the freakanomics podcast about payday loans? I thought it was really interesting and they made it seem the loans aren't as evil as you may think: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/payday-loans/

THIS THIS THIS THIS.

I came here to say something similar. I used to believe that payday loans are basically evil incarnate (but keep in mind I have never needed or used one). Now I still believe that they can be a trap, but I do actually see the valuable service they provide, and for the many people who use them responsibly they can really be a good option. Just like beer.

Payday loans are horrible, no doubt, but if you take that avenue away you leave a vulnerable group of people at the hands of 'lenders' who are outside the law. It's not an easy situation.

Enyar wrote: Any of you guys listen to the freakanomics podcast about payday loans? I thought it was really interesting and they made it seem the loans aren't as evil as you may think: http://freakonomics.com/podcast/payday-loans/

Yes, I did. In my opinion, they're right on the line between good and evil. Scott Tucker took his business and purposely moved it far into the dark side.

i've taken out a few payday loans to get by in my day, but never allowed myself to get sucked into the trap of perpetual debt.

I'm not condoning what the guy did, but how is the government any better?

The fine goes to the government and not the victims, so basically the government just made $1.2 billion off the people who used pay day loans.

How is that justice for the "victims" in the case?