What it say about the place when you have to pay to leave?

When I used to work in Nigeria, I jokingly explained to people that the place was so F**ded up that you had to bribe your way in and out of the country every-time you traveled. The irony being that the bribes to get out tended to cost more than to get in. People thought that was nuts.

Guess what Uncle Sam is doing to its expats...The cost of renouncing a US citizenship has risen from $340 to $2300. That is nuts No? That would be like charging someone to give up their winning lottery ticket!They should be paying the person renouncing, after all they are getting off Uncle Sam's payroll by leaving.

Combined with the new Capital Control law passed to keep people from taking $$$ out of the country,I wonder what someone in Washington knows that I should know?

Why would you renounce your citizenship? Just sounds like a childish "Delete my posts I don't want to be here anymore" thing to me. But what do I know. I WANT to live here.

Because Canada rules.

Because even if you're not living in the US, you still have to pay taxes, etc.

Swank Force One wrote: Because Canada drools.

FTFY

NOHOME wrote: Combined with the new Capital Control law passed to keep people from taking $$$ out of the country,I wonder what someone in Washington knows that I should know?

Nothing, if you know about tax shelters, Swiss bank accounts, and the fact that people are getting increasingly pissed off about their (ab)use

Ex Pats? You mean like Drew Bledsoe?

All the bridges charge tolls to get OUT of New Jersey, and it's free to get in. Just sayin'.

turboswede wrote: Because even if you're not living in the US, you still have to pay taxes, etc.

Yeah. This is a huge deal for people who moved out of here long ago but kept the US or a dual citizenship. For these people, the IRS is apparently a nightmare to deal with. You have to pay taxes on income like you were receiving the benefits of living in the US even though it costs the US nothing and you get nothing... OR you have to pay an "exit" fee of several thousand dollars only acceptable after you have paid any delinquent taxes in full.

It only effects me upon my future intended retirement - and that will never happen at this rate so I probably won't get to have 1st hand knowledge from my very own island nation.

Just ask Burger King...

In reply to turboswede:

What tax is that? I would ASSume that if you don't own property or work in the US you'd have no tax liability. Unless you now have to pay for the joy of being a natural born US citizen.

Duke wrote: All the bridges charge tolls to get OUT of new Jersey, and it's free to get in. Just sayin'.

They have to give people some incentive, you know...

moparman76_69 wrote: Unless you now have to pay for the joy of being a natural born US citizen.

From what I understand, that's basically how it works.

Duke wrote: All the bridges charge tolls to get OUT of new Jersey, and it's free to get in. Just sayin'.

Not true. well, the free to get in part.... I'll be experiencing this lovely phenomenon next week. Wife's friend had never heard of a highway you didn't need an EZ pass for.

GameboyRMH wrote:

moparman76_69 wrote: Unless you now have to pay for the joy of being a natural born US citizen.

From what I understand, that's basically how it works.

Yep. Lots of people renouncing their dual citizenship in Canada that they formerly had in the USA. I'm pretty "meh" on the whole thing, the way the world (and society in general works) is you kind of need to belong to "one" country. Don't hate the player, hate the game.

Technically speaking, dual citizenship is essentially something "lucky" individuals get through no reason of their own, and it bestows certain "benefits" that others don't have. I have no problem closing it up, and the USA has some serious problems with taxes and monies in general. Of course, we would too up here if we had the same rules for politicians (zing!)

HiTempguy wrote: Technically speaking, dual citizenship is essentially something "lucky" individuals get through no reason of their own, and it bestows certain "benefits" that others don't have.

Kind of like citizenship in first-world countries then?

Dual citizen here. It got me a couple years of essentially free annual medical check-ups, but that's about it.

Cone_Junkie wrote: Just ask Burger King...

I guess Burger King is just the one most recent so it's on peoples minds ….

how 'bout

Budweiser
Vaseline
Good Humor
Hellmann's
Purina
French's
Frigidare
Popsicle
7-Eleven

just to name a few

In reply to wbjones:

Yes, just because it was the most recent. There are plenty of companies scamming the American taxpayer.

Too many companies rely on the American infrastructure and American taxpayer but don't want to contribute to them.

Thank you for adding to the list of companies that I will not give my money to.

GameboyRMH wrote:

moparman76_69 wrote: Unless you now have to pay for the joy of being a natural born US citizen.

From what I understand, that's basically how it works.

To the tune of about $1000-$1500 a year for a lower middle income guy. God help if you ever made any money cause then it gets complicated and expensive! And its not about evading taxes, since the Foreign Earned Income Exclusion mean that most expat's income tax liability is zero.

Where it gets ugly is that you can't have any investment income unless you are willing to pay both the Canadian and the US tax people for any gains. Since tax treaties only cover EARNED income, you are taxed twice on any investment income you might have. That would include your Registered Retirement fund, Your Educational Savings fund, any non-registered mutual funds and Interest Acruing bank accounts. If you earn more than 94k a year, you need to pay top tax bracket on any portion over the 94k limit; this is after you have already paid the Canadians their 40%.

Gets even weirder because once you retire, NONE of your income is EARNED income. It is ALL investment income. And you are paying both governments their pound of flesh. What?, you don't HAVE any retirement investment income because you could not make any money by investing because as a US citizen you are double taxed on such stuff? Sucks to be You then. Keep working. Or renounce and get on with it. The cost to do so aside, It would be a huge psychological barrier to hand in the passport.

The other hassle is that you need to tell Uncle where all your money is or else it becomes their money.

Cone_Junkie wrote: In reply to wbjones: Yes, just because it was the most recent. There are plenty of companies scamming the American taxpayer. Too many companies rely on the American infrastructure and American taxpayer but don't want to contribute to them. Thank you for adding to the list of companies that I will not give my money to.

Your list would be a lot shorter if the US offered a tax structure that encouraged companies to locate within its' boundaries. They don't because even with all the penalties, business environments are preferable elsewhere.

Who's scamming who?

Cone_Junkie wrote: Just ask Burger King...

the only thing I have to add to your POV .. is that all those brand names listed above are owned by foreign companies …including Burger King

also those companies own MANY other everyday brand names … if you stopped buying anything that wasn't American owned, much less American produced, you'd not have anywhere near as much STUFF as you have …

oldsaw wrote: Your list would be a lot shorter if the US offered a tax structure that encouraged companies to locate within its' boundaries. They don't because even with all the penalties, business environments are preferable elsewhere. Who's scamming who?

Yet curiously, few follow through on threats to relocate. Even with the supposedly horrific tax burden, elsewhere isn't so preferable for some reason.

oldsaw wrote:

Cone_Junkie wrote: In reply to wbjones: Yes, just because it was the most recent. There are plenty of companies scamming the American taxpayer. Too many companies rely on the American infrastructure and American taxpayer but don't want to contribute to them. Thank you for adding to the list of companies that I will not give my money to.

Your list would be a lot shorter if the US offered a tax structure that encouraged companies to locate within its' boundaries. They don't because even with all the penalties, business environments are preferable elsewhere. Who's scamming who?

well … sorta …like I posted to cone_junkie … all of the ones I listed are foreign OWNED … not US companies who have moved overseas

moparman76_69 wrote: In reply to turboswede: What tax is that? I would ASSume that if you don't own property or work in the US you'd have no tax liability. Unless you now have to pay for the joy of being a natural born US citizen.

As a US citizen or permanent resident (and even as an ex-permanent resident for IIRC 10 years after you left) you're required by law to submit a tax return for your worldwide income to the IRS no matter where you live in the world. The IRS will then tax you on your worldwide income (taking into account the various tax credits you get for paying tax abroad).

In a lot of cases you don't really have to pay US tax until your income hits a fairly high threshold for the foreign income you already paid taxes on, but it's an additional hassle that most other countries don't have. IIRC the US is unique in the world in this, in pretty much all other countries you only pay tax on the income in country.

The "file a tax return" requirement can lead to some interesting experiences if you suddenly discover you're a dual citizen with US citizenship you didn't know about. Not that uncommon in Germany with children of US soldiers where the mother lost contact with the father of the child and they suddenly discover they have US citizenship by birth and never filed a US tax return in their lives.

Maybe I should revoke my citizenship and live here illegally, seems to work out for some.