I have not read the preceding 4 pages of comments, but just want to add my $0.02. This bill is not the end of the world, it is also not a good thing for the American people (even the 31 million currently without insurance), but it is a great deal for the insurance companies who now have government mandated customers.
If you are a human and are alive you owe us money....nice.
I wonder what this bill means to Veterans like me with VA health insurance. Will I be forced into buying insurance as well?
I have spent my whole life struggling to make my small business work. I have always dreamed of big incomes for me and my employees, comprehensive benefits for everyone who works for me, and a stellar work environment second to none in how it treated it's employees, valued the environment, and interconnected with vendors and customers.
I never quite got there.
Instead, I have lived an honorable life. I have no regrets, but I was never able to step up the company to what my dreams were. I pay all my bills, work hard, treat people with respect, but I am not a wealthy man.
In 30 years of self employment, I have had 1 year when I made more than $70,000. I have had many years when I made less than $30,000, and several when I lost more than $20,000. I've averaged around $35K over 30 years, and currently average around $50K.
I employ a few people, we work hard, we live honorably. I've never had an employee who did not think working for me was great, though many have moved on to other opportunities.
I have 5 children. We have never been able to sustain insurance. We've had it at times, but there were always big cost increases that meant we had to drop it.
Last time I checked, basic coverage for my family would cost $2200 per month. That would be $26,400 in after tax dollars per year- more than half my income. No chance.
This bill, however, will force me to buy it, or fine me. I'm hoping the fine is $2000 for my family, not $2000 for each of the seven members of my family.
$50K is probably a lot more than will ever qualify me for being "poor". So, I don't think I will qualify for any subsidies.
$2000 is a lot to a family of 7 who makes $50K.
The net result of this will likely be that I will have to fire several of my employees and put my kids to work. So, to my family and to the people who work for me the net result of this bill will likely be a combination of unemployment and child labor.
Just what I always dreamed of.
50K for a family of seven will be HEAVILY into the "subsidy" category.
Federal poverty level income for seven is $33,270 this year.
I don't know how much the subsidy level is in the final bill but in Massachusetts you'd be eligible for a full subsidy up to 150% of FPL income (around $49,500), with a linear slide down to zero subsidy at 300% of FPL.
Your insurance would be almost completely taxpayer-funded, SVreX, if the subsidy limits are similar to those of "Romneycare" in Massachusetts.
BTW, Mass. lawmakers were in Washington last week, lobbying HEAVILY for more money to make their healthcare system work.
ignorant wrote: Krugman sumed it up best today. "And here we are: Social Security still stands, and health reform — imperfect, compromised, but real — has happened."
And these two things are constructive prospects... well, HOW, exactly?
The main problem with Social Security is that when it was enacted the average 65-year-old was six feet under dirt, and now recipients expect to draw a mean of 18 years of benefits from between 35 and 45 years of work. We simply haven't been anywhere near aggressive enough at increasing the taxpayer-funded retirement age.
chaparral wrote: The main problem with Social Security is that when it was enacted the average 65-year-old was six feet under dirt, and now recipients expect to draw a mean of 18 years of benefits from between 35 and 45 years of work. We simply haven't been anywhere near aggressive enough at increasing the taxpayer-funded retirement age.
...or anywhere near aggressive enough in allowing those of us who are smart enough to put away our own money ahead of time to OPT THE berkeley OUT of a federally-mandated pyramid scheme that can't possibly be sustained.
It's sustainable so long as there is a large enough ratio of workers to retirees. That stops being true in around five years and after that the accumulated past surplus still holds out for around 20 more years if nothing is done to solve the problem. Raising the retirement age for those who are not close to retiring yet addresses the problem directly.
The point of Social Security is that no matter how badly your investments and savings do, you will not be destitute in your old age. Poor, yes, but not destitute. It allows you to take large risks with your long-term savings and reap the rewards.
More government control. Yeah! Immigration and Cap and Trade next! Thanks government!
chaparral wrote: It's sustainable so long as there is a large enough ratio of workers to retirees. That stops being true in around five years and after that the accumulated past surplus still holds out for around 20 more years if nothing is done to solve the problem. Raising the retirement age for those who are not close to retiring yet addresses the problem directly.
So, in plain language, it's sustainable if you continue to increasingly berkeley the younger generations over...
Sounds a lot like fossil fuels, huh?
Question (in case anyone is still reading):
If federally mandated health care is against the constitution, then why isn't federally mandated social security or medicare? (If the social security and medicare are unconstitutional, then why haven't people been screaming about those the end of the country for the many years they have been in effect.)
Just curious.
They are. It's just that the majority of voters see those programs as "free money" so they don't give a damn. Plus they have the scary-powerful AARP lobby backing them up. No politician is even going to think about pissing on that electric fence. Touch it and die.
What this thread needs is a Crazy Ivan
the issue is not that healthcare is federally mandated, its that the law requires everyone to buy insurance or else they pay a fine.
some might say "then why isn't it illegal for the gov't to say you have to have car insurance" well, that is a requirement in order to use a privelage (driving) and using public roads. this just says "if you're breathing, you must have health insurance"
EastCoastMojo wrote: What this thread needs is a Crazy Ivan
"[the Konovalov's own torpedo is about to strike the Konovalov] Andrei Bonovia: You arrogant ass. You've killed us! "
Strizzo wrote: the issue is not that healthcare is federally mandated, its that the law requires everyone to buy insurance or else they pay a fine.
But they require people to pay into SS and medicare, you don't even have an option to pay a fine.
I am really just trying to figure out why "they" are FREAKING out about this and not SS / medicare. I actual saw two American flags out this morning Hanging Upside Down!!! That's freaking out... I wonder which talking head suggested they do that...
16vCorey wrote:tuna55 wrote: Ig, It was absolutely an issue for many of us (myself included_ when the republicans and Bush were in power doing the same crap. I didn't vote for McCain, either, for that very reason. You almost make my point for me as you point out explicitly that you're talking about libertarians, who, as even you might notice, are not republicans.I don't think he's talking about Libertarians, he's talking about "Libertarians". I don't know if you've noticed, but it's become rather chic to label oneself a libertarian, and it seems every neo-con is grabbing the ball and running with it.
i think these new "libertarians" you speak of are the fiscal conservatives that are left without a small govt. party as the republicans spent and grow govt like sober democrats.
aircooled wrote:Strizzo wrote: the issue is not that healthcare is federally mandated, its that the law requires everyone to buy insurance or else they pay a fine.But they require people to pay into SS and medicare, you don't even have an option to pay a fine.
they only take those from you if you have income. this bill just requires you have a heartbeat.
aircooled wrote:Strizzo wrote: the issue is not that healthcare is federally mandated, its that the law requires everyone to buy insurance or else they pay a fine.But they require people to pay into SS and medicare, you don't even have an option to pay a fine. I am really just trying to figure out why "they" are FREAKING out about this and not SS / medicare. I actual saw two American flags out this morning Hanging Upside Down!!! That's freaking out... I wonder which talking head suggested they do that...
SS and Medicare don't require that you enter into a contract with a (supposedly evil) insurance company. the insurance companies were one of the biggest supporters of democrats in the last election, and now they're making them out to be "evil, profit driven corporations"
Some old guys said: That whenever any form of government becomes destructive to these ends, it is the right of the people to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness
...Im just sayin
aircooled wrote:Strizzo wrote: the issue is not that healthcare is federally mandated, its that the law requires everyone to buy insurance or else they pay a fine.But they require people to pay into SS and medicare, you don't even have an option to pay a fine. I am really just trying to figure out why "they" are FREAKING out about this and not SS / medicare. I actual saw two American flags out this morning Hanging Upside Down!!! That's freaking out... I wonder which talking head suggested they do that...
Personally, i freak out about both of those things. Every paycheck. When i find that i've taken home somewhat less than HALF of what i've "made" that pay period.
EastCoastMojo wrote: What this thread needs is a Crazy Ivan
Even if you bust ass to breach the surface, you're still gonna end-up underwater.............
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