what portable heat do you use to heat your shop or garage?

bigdaddylee82 said:

That propane Mr. Heater Hero, did a good job of keeping my oversized, uninsulated, 1 car garage, in Columbus, OH comfortable.  14' ceiling, and 1-1/2 cars deep.  Nothing in my garage ever rusted.  I haven't used it as much since moving back to AR, but nothing has rusted from it here either.

 

I live in a rainforest.

Propane generates a lot of moisture which condenses on cold tools and machinery. Add that to whatever is already in the air and it can get really bad. 

I've tried both and I find that kerosene is much drier, if you buy proper, K1 kerosene (odourless), there is no smell until you shut the heater down, even then it's minimal.

After using kerosene for years, I got a propane jet heater. I would never use kerosene again. The propane is cheap, lasts longer, the jet heater makes way more heat. Only downside is I can't hear a radio playing with the jet running but at least I'm toasty warm. I've got a collection of propane tanks plucked from curbside trash. Morons put them out with their rusted gas grills thinking the trash guys will take them (they won't). If they look sketchy I just exchange them.

Dad has a kerosene jet.  When you're standing directly in its path, you get warm, but it doesn't really heat the garage much.  You also can pretty easily get overwhelmed with fumes, your entire body and clothes will smell like kerosene for three days, and they take up a significant amount of floor space since they're horizontal.

My shop at work has a big, overhead, gas radiant heater.  I love it.  I stay toasty warm in a 60 x 100 shop with 18' ceilings.  When it comes to leaky, uninsulated spaces, don't try to heat the air.  It's pointless.  A breeze comes along and its gone, and as soon as the hot air touches one of the surfaces, it's cold.  Use radiant heat to heat solid objects.

Air carries VERY little heat for its temperature and gives it up even easier.  If you heat the tools, car, floor, and you instead, the air might be 25 degrees but you'll be toasty.  You also won't be fighting the rising hot air as it settles into the rafters while your own radiant heat gets vacuumed into the concrete below you.

Trust me on this... 1500w electric radiant heaters hanging overhead is the ticket.  If you have gas, there are options as well, but they're not much quieter than a jet heater.   Go radiant heat and don't worry about the air.  Heat solids.

We went through this when we lived in a drafty, brick-walled Loft in L.A.  Code didn't require it to have heat or A/C (because southern CA) but the builder put in some electric baseboards.  Useless.  At full blast they completely failed at raising the temperature more than 1-2 degrees.  We bought three electric 1500w radiant heaters and they could turn that 1400 sf into a lovely environment in 10 minutes and used a tenth of the electrons doing it.

Whenever drafts or low R-values are present, don't use convection (heating the air), use radiant.

Does propane dump any more moisture into the air than any other combustion? I thought water was just a byproduct no matter what.

I have gas radiant heat in my shop and it's quiet and effective. Nowhere near a jet heater. Mostly I can tell it's running by the pinging noises when it expands. It's what we use at FM as well in the big warehouse. You can get radiant heaters that sit on top of a propane bottle, maybe that's a good option.

My gas heat also pumps some moisture into the air so I have a humidity-triggered fan that keeps the shop at about 58%. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

Dad has a kerosene jet.  When you're standing directly in its path, you get warm, but it doesn't really heat the garage much.  You also can pretty easily get overwhelmed with fumes, your entire body and clothes will smell like kerosene for three days, and they take up a significant amount of floor space since they're horizontal.

My shop at work has a big, overhead, gas radiant heater.  I love it.  I stay toasty warm in a 60 x 100 shop with 18' ceilings.  When it comes to leaky, uninsulated spaces, don't try to heat the air.  It's pointless.  A breeze comes along and its gone, and as soon as the hot air touches one of the surfaces, it's cold.  Use radiant heat to heat solid objects.

Air carries VERY little heat for its temperature and gives it up even easier.  If you heat the tools, car, floor, and you instead, the air might be 25 degrees but you'll be toasty.  You also won't be fighting the rising hot air as it settles into the rafters while your own radiant heat gets vacuumed into the concrete below you.

Trust me on this... 1500w electric radiant heaters hanging overhead is the ticket.  If you have gas, there are options as well, but they're not much quieter than a jet heater.   Go radiant heat and don't worry about the air.  Heat solids.

We went through this when we lived in a drafty, brick-walled Loft in L.A.  Code didn't require it to have heat or A/C (because southern CA) but the builder put in some electric baseboards.  Useless.  At full blast they completely failed at raising the temperature more than 1-2 degrees.  We bought three electric 1500w radiant heaters and they could turn that 1400 sf into a lovely environment in 10 minutes and used a tenth of the electrons doing it.

Whenever drafts or low R-values are present, don't use convection (heating the air), use radiant.

I need to investigate some kind of radiant heat solution for my unheated, uninsulated, and un-ceilinged 3.5 car garage.  Mostly in the winter I get nothing done, and this year, I really have stuff I need to be doing.  I've got a kerosene blast heater, and a KeroSun heater, but as you say, warming the air is not terribly effective.

Are you willing to share a link to these 1500-watt units?  I think I'd need 15,000 watts.

I'll find a suitable link.  That loft heaters I got were almost 20 years ago so they are discontinued.

Here:  It looked similar to these.  110v, 1500w.

You won't need 15,000w.  Radiant heat doesn't act like convection heat.  With convection, you need to heat the air to a certain delta.  With radiant heat, you're not heating the air, you're heating surfaces.  You are only trying to overcome the amount of heat in the surface that is being sapped away by the surrounding air.

With convection, you're trying to heat air which accepts and rejects heat almost instantly.  With radiant heat, you're heating the surface, and the transfer from a solid to the air is much slower.  Think of it like an oven.  Put a cast iron pan in the oven and heat it to 450 degrees.  Now open the oven and stick your hand in the 450 degree air.  Feels warm.  Now grab the 450 degree cast iron.  Instant 3rd degree burns.  Same temperature, millions of times more heat energy.

Heating the air in a space with controlled heat exchange (a house with walls and insulation) and it makes sense.  The insulation prevents the air from dumping much of its heat.  In a garage that doesn't have that benefit, the difference between the energy required to heat surfaces is WAY different.  That is to say, if you did the calculations on installing a forced air furnace in your garage, it might be 100kbtus.  But with radiant heat, you're not wasting 80% of that heat to the fact that air can't hold heat as well as solids.  You'll need far less energy to heat you and the tools/car because you're not dumping hot air through every crack.

Another way to think of it.  Sit in front of a forced air heater in your house, then sit in front of an equally sized radiant heater.  They both feel warm.  Now do the same experiment in the vaccum of space where it is -275 degrees.  The 2 feet between you and the forced air means that next to zero of the heat will actually make it to you.  It gets instantly absorbed by the surrounding lack of heat.  The radiant heater in space would still be able to transfer the same amount of heat energy to your body as it did in your living room... more in fact because it doesn't have the air blocking a little bit of it.

This is also why its so vastly colder on the dark side of the moon.  Nearly all the heat energy that hits the moon is radiant heat.  We humans perceive heat in such air-based concepts, but in the absence of air, it's a whole new ball game.

Astronauts in their vessels don't get cold because of convection or conduction.  It's not possible because there is no mass in space to carry the heat away.  They are cold entirely because of radiation.  The heat radiates out of their vessel.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

My first house, which I purchased in 1995, was built in 1960 by an engineer with the local power company.  He had electric radiant panels mounted in the ceiling under the plaster (yes, plaster) in the "formal rooms."  It was a very nice heat. 

ShawnG said:

Propane makes your stuff rusty, no way.

Living in Northeast Ohio makes your stuff go rusty.

Something weird: I found everything roughly 18" off the ground to be rusted, one time.  Not sure what caused that.  (This was before I had any heaters)

I have tried the 1500 watt 110v radiant heaters in my shop in SC. At 5000 btus, they don't work well unless you can leave them on for hours to bring things up to temperature. It would take 4-5 of them to heat my shop to any kind of comfort in any reasonable amount of time. By the time things start getting close to warm, I'm already putting tools up and headed back inside. They just don't put out enough energy. 

By comparison, the gas radiant heater I use when things get really cold is 45k btus and the 25k btu direct vent RV furnace can have you shedding clothes in under 30 minutes. That's fast enough that I can turn it on when I get home, go in and speak to the wife and change clothes and the shop be fairly warm by the time I walk back outside. 

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

  Now do the same experiment in the vaccum of space where it is -275 degrees...  

Okay folks, I'll be right back. Gotta try this...

;) 

Years ago I found a mobile home(trailer) heater on Craigslist and bought it. Ran on propane, was forced air and worked unbelievably well. Even if you can't insulate the garage, you can still tarp the wall where you have problems or tarp all of the walls and ceiling. That will create a nice little box for you to warm up. Call the local propane supply and rent a 100 gallon tank from them. Propane is cheap and you will have a nice comfy workspace in just a day or two for only a couple hundred bucks at most.

EvanB (Forum Supporter) said:

I have a 75000 btu torpedo heater i run on diesel. I don't really mind the smell if the diesel is fresh but my garage is very drafty. It's also extremely loud. But it was free and it fires up every winter and can make the garage uncomfortably warm if i want to run it long enough.

I was wrong, I took a look at it when I fired it up today and it is 115k btu. The high today was around 34°F and it kept the 20x30 garage at 50° running infrequently. 

Keith Tanner said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

  Now do the same experiment in the vaccum of space where it is -275 degrees...  

Okay folks, I'll be right back. Gotta try this...

 

;) 

Take a jacket.

EvanB (Forum Supporter) said:

EvanB (Forum Supporter) said:

I have a 75000 btu torpedo heater i run on diesel. I don't really mind the smell if the diesel is fresh but my garage is very drafty. It's also extremely loud. But it was free and it fires up every winter and can make the garage uncomfortably warm if i want to run it long enough.

I was wrong, I took a look at it when I fired it up today and it is 115k btu. The high today was around 34°F and it kept the 20x30 garage at 50° running infrequently. 

I was gonna say...  I have 18,000 BTU at full chat and your torpedo heater is like Chernobyl in comparison.  Also I thought you wrote 25000btu.

Like, when I am in my garage, I put my hands six inches away from the heater so I can maybe get some feeling back.  In your garage, I have to stay a couple feet away from the torpedo so my clothes don't smolder.

I wonder if the cinder block construction helps retain/absorb and reflect some of the heat, too.

Back when I was living in the 25x60x21’ tall warehouse (I miss having my Bridgeport in my living room) I rented, it had a gas radiant heater than ran the length in the overhead. 3-4” round tube about 30’ long or so. Quietly glowed orange, and would heat as hot as ya wanted, for very little propane use. Owner had them in all his units. Great stuff, but was not cheap. Don’t remember brand, but radiant gas works good. 

03Panther said:

Back when I was living in the 25x60x21’ tall warehouse (I miss having my Bridgeport in my living room) I rented, it had a gas radiant heater than ran the length in the overhead. 3-4” round tube about 30’ long or so. Quietly glowed orange, and would heat as hot as ya wanted, for very little propane use. Owner had them in all his units. Great stuff, but was not cheap. Don’t remember brand, but radiant gas works good. 

That's what I have in my shop.  It's from a brand called Vantage and it's a 4" stainless tube.  It basically blows a hot gas flame, the tube soaks the heat and radiates it.  Wonderful thing.  Mine is NG and I have no idea how much gas it uses, but MAN, DOES IT WORK.  It can heat a 6000sf shop in about 10 minutes.

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I would love one of those. Thats like instant heat. My ceilings are too low though. I'd be able to cook food on the floor.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'll find a suitable link. 

Here:  It looked similar to these.  110v, 1500w.

I think I may try one of those. I'm surprised that it's that cheap. I have a small area in the garage where I exercise and it was 39 degrees last night. Not awful, but the first 10 minutes are pretty uncomfortable. One of these might do the trick.

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

I'll find a suitable link. 

Here:  It looked similar to these.  110v, 1500w.

I think I may try one of those. I'm surprised that it's that cheap. I have a small area in the garage where I exercise and it was 39 degrees last night. Not awful, but the first 10 minutes are pretty uncomfortable. One of these might do the trick.

Bonus: Price just dropped $10 while I was typing!

I had a Mr. Propane heater mounted on a wall, they have feet also so can free stand.  It's powered by an 800lb. tank of propane.  I swapped some parts for a used 90,000 BTU furnace, paid $400 to find out I would blow myself up so I bought another Mr. Heater.  Two mounted on a wall keep the place toasty, the cement floor is a huge cold plate that never heats up. 

One of Tim's build articles he said he buys old area rugs and lays them under the car, when it's oily and nasty, roll it up and toss it.  That helps.

Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) said:

03Panther said:

Back when I was living in the 25x60x21’ tall warehouse (I miss having my Bridgeport in my living room) I rented, it had a gas radiant heater than ran the length in the overhead. 3-4” round tube about 30’ long or so. Quietly glowed orange, and would heat as hot as ya wanted, for very little propane use. Owner had them in all his units. Great stuff, but was not cheap. Don’t remember brand, but radiant gas works good. 

That's what I have in my shop.  It's from a brand called Vantage and it's a 4" stainless tube.  It basically blows a hot gas flame, the tube soaks the heat and radiates it.  Wonderful thing.  Mine is NG and I have no idea how much gas it uses, but MAN, DOES IT WORK.  It can heat a 6000sf shop in about 10 minutes.

That's the sort we have in our 25,000 square foot steel building warehouse. Works pretty well.

I have a 7000 btu version in my shop that looks a bit different. It's currently running (checks the logs) a bit less than a 50% duty cycle to keep my 1200 sf shop at 66F with an outside temp of 20F. It used to run on propane but I switched it to gas so I didn't have to worry about the shop (full of paint and race cars with no antifreeze) freezing. 

Toyman01 (Moderately Supportive Dude) said:

In reply to Curtis73 (Forum Supporter) :

I would love one of those. Thats like instant heat. My ceilings are too low though. I'd be able to cook food on the floor.

But think of the money you would save on haircuts.

They do make overhead radiant tube heaters that are designed for use with lower ceilings in residential garages. 

Guys, thanks for all the input.  This  is starting to spiral.  My wife wants heat in our very small mud room. This pushes this towards something propane.  This house had electric heat only when we bought it.  We added an oil burner and forced hot water.  We had extra zones put in as we were really going to expand this house.  Plans have changed.  We do have extra zones if we wanted to put in some forced hot water.  I'm not willing to do it for the small mud room and a for now uninsulated garage.  So back to propane.

I will let you know how it plays out.  If I want to go big on this, my wife will want some other things done first.  Something about drafty windows.   She is down though for some heat in the mud room and would like me to be warm in the garage.  I do use a creeper and rugs on the floor, but dang this weekend even 20 degrees felt cold!