Why We Hate Millennials

In reply to Streetwiseguy :

I grew up buying most things from Sears. 

We got the Christmas catalog and spent hours pouring over it trying to stay in the budget my dad had given me.  

It taught me a lot of math.  

But, Sears was going rapidly down hill decades before the internet.  They opened Alstate insurance followed by Discover card and spent a fortune marketing into field they had no real involvement in.  

That squeezed them for cash and one of the first things they did was cut back on the catalogs.  Then when sales plummeted spent another fortune on TV ads trying to get shoppers into the mega stores they opened. 

 Lifetime warranty’s became limited. Previous generous return policies became burdensome.  Previously they sold quality products but suddenly focused on cheaper high profit items.  

That’s when they lost me.  I bought a new vacuum from them and a week later it burned out. They didn’t honor the lifetime warrantee saying I’d vacuumed up the wrong kind of dust.  

I went from buying most things at Sears to buying nothing at Sears. 

Then the internet began.  

volvoclearinghouse said:

Times were different.  Ford paid that to attract good talent to make cars in the USA.  Nowadays they simply ship the factories off overseas.  Ford didn't really have that option back then.

...to bring this topic back around to millennials..

I truly appreciate them. And despite their eyeball level debt and their need for roommates into their thirties... I am jealous of them.
 

They changed my profession for the better by speaking up about life/work balance. 
 

Hopefully in a few more years we'll start to see 4 day work weeks become the norm as well. For 25 years, I've worked forty hours most weeks by Thursday morning... so I'm really looking forward to a three day weekend, every week.

I truly believe that'll happen as companies are forced to get creative to attract talent without spending more. 
 

A lot of our jobs can be done in the comfort of our own home. We've been pushing our aging director to let us work from home; we've gotten one day a week. Other teams are seeing 3+. Other places I've worked, they were also moving towards being able to work from home.

I can get so much more done at home and in less time, I wouldn't even need to work the full 8 hours.

In regards to roommates, I personally only had to deal with that while living in San Diego, where rent in an OK area was $2k.

In reply to FuzzWuzzy :

Do contract work.  100% from home. My 64 year old wife does it and she’s turned down FTE ( full time employment) 

Why  fight traffic an hour each way to an office?  She walks upstairs to hers and if we had a cat, that would be the only traffic she sees.  She goes to work in her night gown, changing sometimes during her morning “bio” break.  

Her alarm could go off at 8:59 and she’d be on time for work.  Our home has great views as does her office and it’s decorated exactly how she wants it.  Temps are exactly what she sets them at.  

Snacks and coffee are right there or she could walk downstairs and be in her kitchen.  Her car gets gas once a month whether   it needs it or not.   

Her next contract will put her comfortably in the six figure region.  She’d planned on retiring after that but she really likes working from home. We’ll have to see 

Now  the bad stuff. Anything you do on the computer is tracked.  No games, no shopping, no chatting.  

No personal stuff either. No TV watching, no sleeping, cooking or anything but work related stuff.  When you aren’t  on the computer that time is totaled too and bosses look at bio breaks, lunch etc. 

No, you will have time to think things through but it will be tied to a project or something and your time spent compared to a standard.  

While there is a little latitude Big brother really is watching you. 

FuzzWuzzy said:

A lot of our jobs can be done in the comfort of our own home. We've been pushing our aging director to let us work from home; we've gotten one day a week. Other teams are seeing 3+. Other places I've worked, they were also moving towards being able to work from home.

I can get so much more done at home and in less time, I wouldn't even need to work the full 8 hours.

This is something I need to continue researching.  Given the current technology we have where I work, I don't think work-from-home is feasible on any sort of regular basis, despite the fact that we do 100% of our work on computers, and a majority of the team sits at their desk all day.

As much as I want working from home to become a thing, I am also the first to push against it when the subject comes up.

I'd love to see the solutions that other companies use for remote work.

ProDarwin said:

FuzzWuzzy said:

A lot of our jobs can be done in the comfort of our own home. We've been pushing our aging director to let us work from home; we've gotten one day a week. Other teams are seeing 3+. Other places I've worked, they were also moving towards being able to work from home.

I can get so much more done at home and in less time, I wouldn't even need to work the full 8 hours.

This is something I need to continue researching.  Given the current technology we have where I work, I don't think work-from-home is feasible on any sort of regular basis, despite the fact that we do 100% of our work on computers, and a majority of the team sits at their desk all day.

As much as I want working from home to become a thing, I am also the first to push against it when the subject comes up.

I'd love to see the solutions that other companies use for remote work.

We use Zoom for video conferencing (anyone can share their screen, have your face on video, etc) and use Slack for normal quick questions. We had two different meetings today, using Zoom, with people in California, Waterloo, OKC, Atlanta, Austin, London, Brno, Barcelona, and Montevideo. 

The technology has been there for years and years. Old school management structure doesn't trust not being in the office. 

Which begs the question:

If you don't trust your workers to get the job done without you looming over their shoulder, why did you hire them to begin with? Or why haven't you coached them? It's about middle-management insecurity. 

z31maniac said:

We use Zoom for video conferencing (anyone can share their screen, have your face on video, etc) and use Slack for normal quick questions. We had two different meetings today, using Zoom, with people in California, Waterloo, OKC, Atlanta, Austin, London, Brno, Barcelona, and Montevideo. 

The technology has been there for years and years. Old school management structure doesn't trust not being in the office. 

 

Which begs the question:

If you don't trust your workers to get the job done without you looming over their shoulder, why did you hire them to begin with? Or why haven't you coached them? It's about middle-management insecurity. 

Its not an issue of distrust.  It is a communication issue.  We don't have Slack unfortunately although its something I have been begging for for years.  We have Webex, but people are terrible at using that (although if working from home were on the table, I'm sure they would be more motivated to learn, quickly).  I see people out of the office all the time and the communication breakdown is significant :(

I think those are annoying hurdles, but implementation of better software will go a long way there.  The network issues are a whole different story.  How big are the files you work with?

We have CAD pdm systems on site and pulling the files from home takes about 10x longer.  I'm sure that number would be 100x longer if everyone in the office were actually working from home.  CAD files aren't even that big compared to render files though... were talking 5+ gigabytes, which does not transfer (or save) quickly.

In reply to ProDarwin :

It does require self discipline.  Big Brother really is watching you and everything is kept track of and compared to a standard even “bio” breaks. 

I couldn’t do it, although I could work on the road and get top results. The idea of being tied to that computer gives me willies.  

The good thing about it is you will be paid at the top of your profession.  Companies know that you’re just a few clicks away from a new job.  

If you work through a contracting firm you will have a leg up on getting hired.  The recruiter will know ( or should know) the critical touch points. Who is actually a decision maker and who isn’t.  Plus likely have a relationship with that person.  

Incidentally contractors like that. It cements their relationship and there are always more fish in the sea.  

In reply to ProDarwin :

Our files are relatively small, but going through a VPN a content management system, the extra speed and reduced latency of a fast connection at home helps. Especially when I'm using a Scrum VM for testing.

My WiFi is typically around 200mb/s down.

We used to use Webex, but the quality is abysmal compared to Zoom.

As for the communication breakdown, that's another coaching issue. My original boss who hired me made it very clear I am expected to be available during business hours whether I'm working from the office, home, or a cafe.

I messaged one of the devs yesterday at 630 just hoping he'd see it in the morning, 10 minutes later yesterday I had an answer.

But we all realize what a good gig we have and don't abuse it.

ProDarwin said:

We have CAD pdm systems on site and pulling the files from home takes about 10x longer.  I'm sure that number would be 100x longer if everyone in the office were actually working from home.  CAD files aren't even that big compared to render files though... were talking 5+ gigabytes, which does not transfer (or save) quickly.

File size is the problem I have with working remotely.  While not quite in the gigabyte range, they are still in the few-hundred megabyte range, and while I can easily use VPN to log into our network remotely (I've done it tethering off my cell phone) for email and net-meetings, opening Revit files is pretty much an exercise in futility.  We have the technology to allow for remote use (slave CPUs operating in the server room), it would require an infrastructure investment management doesn't want to make. 

z31maniac said:

As for the communication breakdown, that's another coaching issue.

Tools and coaching issue, agreed.  A lot of our collaboration stuff requires the ability to go to a meeting/screenshare/mouse&keyboard share (remote control) relatively instantly and that is a combination of both being available all the time (unless your calendar states otherwise) and having the tools to make that happen quickly.

For the connection speed, I think the issue is on the company side.  I have 100mb connection speed, but I'll never see that speed in practice when connected to work.  I think there are definitely other workarounds, but again they require a software/hardware solution that is not currenty in place.

I'm 100% for having the flexibility to work from home part of the time, but want the tools to do it properly.

Ian F said:

We have the technology to allow for remote use (slave CPUs operating in the server room), it would require an infrastructure investment management doesn't want to make. 

Has this improved?  Last time I tried something like for CAD work it was terrible.  It only let you use 1 or 2 monitors, couldn't use the space mouse or any specialized peripherals, etc.

z31maniac said:

ProDarwin said:

FuzzWuzzy said:

A lot of our jobs can be done in the comfort of our own home. We've been pushing our aging director to let us work from home; we've gotten one day a week. Other teams are seeing 3+. Other places I've worked, they were also moving towards being able to work from home.

I can get so much more done at home and in less time, I wouldn't even need to work the full 8 hours.

This is something I need to continue researching.  Given the current technology we have where I work, I don't think work-from-home is feasible on any sort of regular basis, despite the fact that we do 100% of our work on computers, and a majority of the team sits at their desk all day.

As much as I want working from home to become a thing, I am also the first to push against it when the subject comes up.

I'd love to see the solutions that other companies use for remote work.

We use Zoom for video conferencing (anyone can share their screen, have your face on video, etc) and use Slack for normal quick questions. We had two different meetings today, using Zoom, with people in California, Waterloo, OKC, Atlanta, Austin, London, Brno, Barcelona, and Montevideo. 

The technology has been there for years and years. Old school management structure doesn't trust not being in the office. 

 

Which begs the question:

If you don't trust your workers to get the job done without you looming over their shoulder, why did you hire them to begin with? Or why haven't you coached them? It's about middle-management insecurity. 

We in the air force use zoom, meetme, and Microsoft Teams.

In reply to ProDarwin :

The Architect I work with in NH has been using a slave CPU in our main office in PA for about 4 years now.  He's even still using the same ancient laptop he was issued back in 2015.  Once in awhile he has one of the IT guys restart the CPU, but it works well.  Plus, since he's not trying to load files over the wonky network connection at the site (or anywhere), he can pretty much work wherever he has an internet connection. He's a relic of the old IT administration and is the only one who has this set-up. He usually uses two monitors when he docks at his desk.  I don't know if he can use the laptop display as a monitor like I do with my more traditional set-up. I still have a CPU at my desk in PA, so it's possible I could set something up similar, but the network connection at my desk is often used for traveling workers (since I'm there maybe once a month).

Man, I would kill to work from home.  I would hardly even care what I did, I just don't like commuting or most office environments.

In reply to infinitenexus :

After I just drove 83 miles from NH into MA - and around lunch time I'll need to go back - I couldn't agree more... although the traffic wasn't nearly as bad as I expected it to be. What I thought would take two hours ended up taking 1:20, so I arrived at my meeting some 30+ min early.  At least I'll get paid for the miles driven... 

At my current job, we use Skype for any meetings and IMing, Outlook for emails and setting up said meetings, and if we need to access anything work-related, we use the ever wonderful Cisco AnyConnect to connect to our enterprise server. You're able to access emails and your laptop without the VPN, but shared drives or specific programs will require VPN because they're on the network.

Virtually this is the exact same setup that was at my previous company that was heavily tech-focused, trying to emulate a Silicon Valley company, but in the Midwest.

Both companies issue you decent enough laptops, enabling you to work from home if the weather is bad, you're sick but still wanna work, or if a kid is sick and you gotta stay home. Makes dealing with work a bit more flexible so you're not scrambling to figure out who's staying home if both parents work when your kid is sick or has no school.

Working from home also will have a massive impact in the sky-high cost of childcare. I know a single mom with real E36 M3 job who can't leave them because they allow her to take care of her son so easily, and another friend of mine in Finance is pushing for it heavily too so he can start a family.

Duke said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to jharry3 :

Oh but they are on the Dole.  When wages paid are below the cost of living, the Public sector picks up the slack. It may be in health care, food stamps, housing assistance, transportation subsidies, etc.  

In fact  tax payers subsidize private industry all the time.  Not just Walmart, Amazon, Sears,  McDonalds etc.  

Sounds like a reason to end subsidies of all kinds. If the individual social safety net is cut back to temporary / emergency assistance only and we eliminate all corporate subsidies of every kind, the free market everyone on the left loves to hate might actually have a chance to work freely. 

I agree with you, but how much pain would that cause in the short-term for long term gain? However, if you had forced a $15 minimum-per hour wage months prior, and had a public healthcare option so companies no longer had to provide health insurance i'd jump on those bones.

Believe it or not, the Fed Govt is one of the more progressive employers when it comes to working from home. My mother retired over a decade ago, occasionally has contact with some of her former coworkers still at her job in procurement.  What used to be a huge facility of many thousands is now nearly moth-balled.  Pretty much everyone works from home now from a laptop.  A friend of mine works for the patent office. She used to work in the office at DC. Now she works remotely from Montana.

My company is pretty much against working from home, although my own supervisor is more flexible about it.  For example, if I have a call-in web meeting at 4PM, it doesn't make a difference if I'm at my desk in the office or my kitchen table at home. However, it makes a big deal to me as far as how bad my commute home will be, so I leave the office early and log in from home.

GIRTHQUAKE said:

Working from home also will have a massive impact in the sky-high cost of childcare. I know a single mom with real E36 M3 job who can't leave them because they allow her to take care of her son so easily, and another friend of mine in Finance is pushing for it heavily too so he can start a family.

Duke said:

frenchyd said:

In reply to jharry3 :

Oh but they are on the Dole.  When wages paid are below the cost of living, the Public sector picks up the slack. It may be in health care, food stamps, housing assistance, transportation subsidies, etc.  

In fact  tax payers subsidize private industry all the time.  Not just Walmart, Amazon, Sears,  McDonalds etc.  

Sounds like a reason to end subsidies of all kinds. If the individual social safety net is cut back to temporary / emergency assistance only and we eliminate all corporate subsidies of every kind, the free market everyone on the left loves to hate might actually have a chance to work freely. 

I agree with you, but how much pain would that cause in the short-term for long term gain? However, if you had forced a $15 minimum-per hour wage months prior, and had a public healthcare option so companies no longer had to provide health insurance i'd jump on those bones.

Duke: 

You really should read a little history. You’d learn why there is welfare.  It has nothing to do with being kind or generous and everything to do with saving money.  

Kaiser Wilhelm ( no softy lefty was he) went through the first Rye crop failure tossing anyone who broke the law in jail.  When the second Rye crop failed a few years later instead of Jail, he gave everyone a living stipend.  ( the first modern welfare)  just enough so they could afford to eat. 

He saved so much money  doing that he was able to modernize his military in time for WW1 

jails and prisons are unbelievably expensive  Add the cost of courts , lawyers and judges to that and you understand why it would be  far cheaper to send each prisoner to College for a year than put them in jail for a year.  Not  to mention that college graduates earn twice as much income as high school graduates  ( and pay twice as much taxes) 

Point 2. According to my late wife. The average welfare recipient  is a white single female with 1.7 children, abandoned by the father of the children. And remains on welfare just over 1.1 years.  

If you doubt me please go to your welfare office and try to get on welfare. Far from a soft life it’s about as miserable an existence as there is. 

Incidentally 10 cents out of every welfare dollar is spent trying to catch and find fraud. 

I was talking to a co-workers father about the Watkins Glen Grand Prix, my dad also attended, it's hilarious to hear the stories about the bog. Whether it was burning a bus or sneaking on the track at night and clicking off laps. Some crazy stuff to the people that raised the millennials and become so conservative. I know coachella is crazy but they look like poser's compared to Watkins Glen in the 70's. 

This discussion's gone on some wild tangents, but I just saw this and thought I'd share:

Ian F said:

In reply to ProDarwin :

The Architect I work with in NH has been using a slave CPU in our main office in PA for about 4 years now.  He's even still using the same ancient laptop he was issued back in 2015.  Once in awhile he has one of the IT guys restart the CPU, but it works well.  Plus, since he's not trying to load files over the wonky network connection at the site (or anywhere), he can pretty much work wherever he has an internet connection. He's a relic of the old IT administration and is the only one who has this set-up. He usually uses two monitors when he docks at his desk.  I don't know if he can use the laptop display as a monitor like I do with my more traditional set-up. I still have a CPU at my desk in PA, so it's possible I could set something up similar, but the network connection at my desk is often used for traveling workers (since I'm there maybe once a month).

I do the same. Have an old tower workstation under my desk at the office and connect via Remote Desktop. I open and edit enormous Revit files all day every day - on the occasions that I am able to work from home. 
 

Edit: actually use the same when solution I'm at work. I use a MS Surface for main computer due to portability. 

We're allowed to work from home every day before and after our 9+ hour shifts. We're expecting to monitor and answer our email, slack, etc 24/7 for some of the most inane bullE36 M3 imaginable.

I wish I could work from home but I'm so equipment dependent there's no way.