Window help!

turning to the hive yet again.......

Me and Mrs. Orphancars are starting to rehab our home. Been here 17 years and it's time to do a whole house update. First up on the list is replacing the crappy aluminum frame windows with something better. Looking to the hive mind for advice. We're in TX, seems like the current standard is vinyl windows. Seems like there are a ton of options out there, lots of vendors, lots of stuff that, to me, start to all look the same after a while. What advice do you all have?

thx,

Double pane is all you will need as triple panel is probably not worth the increase cost vs insulating value.

I'd look at windows with a construction as follows: Low-E 1/4" glazing, 1/2" of Argon, 1/4" clear glazing. If those are too expensive, start making concessions.

Also, being able to clean the outside from the inside is quite nice. I like our vinyl windows. We also have a blueish green tint to ours. You don't notice it on the inside but only from the outside.

Thanks Ross -- I'm with you on all of that -- looking for advice on window manufacturers, too....probably should have mentioned that too

I replaced all the windows in my house with Thermastar 20 series(? I think I'd have to pull the paperwork) from one of the big box stores. Low E, argon filled, double pane, vinyl etc. The guys that did the install had it done in a day. Makes a huge difference from the nasty, and highly inefficient, aluminum frame "double" pane windows from the 80s.

No real complaints. I had to have Pella out to fix one of the single hung ones because it wouldn't stay open, but one out of the 18 replaced wasn't too bad. They did it under warranty and were quick about it too.

10 year warranty and 2 year labor guarantee. Plus its transferable.

I am currently replacing the windows in my house, as funds become available. What I found is that they all advertise windows for $180 installed. If you call them up, they will insist on coming to give a price and the price is always $350 installed for their $180 window installed. Lowes did that, they all do. I went with Window World of the (various) brand, their top of the line model vinyl with argon, etc. I call them up, they come measure, give them a check, they come back in a few weeks and put in another set of windows, like at about 6-8 at a time. I have 9 more to go. "Oh, why don't you do them all?" Uh, because they are $350 ea. "Oh, you can BORROW THE MONEY FOR THEM." Uh, NO!. Anyway, they are a really nice window. They are replacing double pane aluminum windows and the difference is night and day, both summer and winter. For the benefit of Texans, "Winter" is that week of the year when it's not hot.

Hi Orphancars,

I just replaced every window and slider in my house with vinyl, dual pane, argon filled, UV film coated units by Milgard. SWMBO did a lot of objective as well as antidotal (talking to neighbors, etc.) research and concluded that if any other manufacture has something better, the benefits are pretty negligible and Milgard, at least here in California, is the safest choice as they are the biggest and most established player.

We had three installers quote the job and the spread was very significant so I recommend you focus on the who as much as the what.

BTW, we installed Milgard windows in the kid's bedrooms in our previous home (for security) and although one of them did start fogging up in between the panes after about five years, the warrantee was honored with zero Bull E36 M3…they came right out and replaced it.

The only thing I don’t like is that from the outside, the windows have a blue tint which I think is cheesy.

If you are buying vinyl, you probably don't need to sweat the manufacturer much.

There are only a couple of manufacturers, and they change their names every few years. Probably to avoid long term warranty burden. Unless you are buying Pella, Anderson, Marvin, etc, the name won't matter. (And they don't do much vinyl).

They all have a base product line which you don't really want. The sashes will be light weight, the frames flimsy, and the seals questionable.

They will also have a premium product line with features you don't need. Heavy weight frames, triple pane glass, thermal breaks. You don't need this stuff in TX, and won't get your money back at resale.

The mid-range product line will serve you well.

Look for the NRFC U-factor rating and the solar heat gain coefficient. These matter.

Also, put your hands on actual full scale samples of the product. You will feel the difference (and will probably think the premium ones feel clumsy). Don't look at pictures or the little traveling sample window. They feel different.

Low E should be absolutely non-negotiable- you need this in TX. Argon maybe not- depends on price.

Also look for tight fitting screens- I like ones that can be changed from inside.

A few years back when the government was giving tax breaks for new windows we decided to replace most of the windows in the house(ones in addition we put on were already Anderson). Spent several weeks looking at different brands. Ended up buying Marvin windows.

I think we have Soft-Lite replacements. We replaced all the windows in the house several years ago. The tax break at the time was nice, but wasn't the reason. I can't tell you which model because their web page is less than clear (was then too). I think it is the model just below the top.

Shopping drove me nuts, as prices varied wildly, and for no reason I could discern.

What we have is steel framed vinyl. I/we have been very pleased with them for the years we've had them. Zero problems with the windows (installation and calking is a different matter).

Pin down estimates with regards to price differences. Not vague "little more's" and such. Reason I say that is because the price difference to the windows we bought was something like only $50-100 above the cheapie base model. Same the options. The shatter proof glass was only something like $20 more.

For vague reference, my own experiences with windows is wood rots, no matter who's it is or how expensive it is. They also swell and warp gloriously with the weather. Aluminum is noisy and terrific thermal leaks. Cheap vinyl warps and sags and does other really strange things, all of which are not good. UV glass makes it look like it's stormy outside, all the time, and somehow feels depressing as a result. Moving gee-gaws in the glass always leak moisture, and spiders find their way in and build webs and die in the corners.

Shop many vendors. I replaced 23 windows in my house three years ago. I told everyone that came out for estimates that I was starting the project in a month, and wanted their best price with no coupon or rebate gimmicks. The first vendor quoted me $30,000 for the job. The next few were about half that. A couple more said they could do the job for between $8 and $9000. Our final vendor was Lowes and they came in well under $10,000. We based our decision off of price and how the windows looked from inside and out. We had Lowes do the job through a certified installer and things went perfectly. The first vendor called back at one point and offered to have to owner come out and give us some "special" pricing but I told them to stick it since we asked for the best pricing upfront and they didn't deliver. Watch out for games and be sure that you're comparing apples to apples. Some sales people know their stuff, some have few answers but lots of bullE36 M3.

SVreX wrote: If you are buying vinyl, you probably don't need to sweat the manufacturer much. There are only a couple of manufacturers, and they change their names every few years. Probably to avoid long term warranty burden. Unless you are buying Pella, Anderson, Marvin, etc, the name won't matter. (And they don't do much vinyl).

the only vinyl company i trust anymore for staying power and backing up their warranty is Simonton. they're regularly at the top of consumer reports' best window list. i install them exclusively anymore due to issues with every other brand. they are the best in regards to warranty claims that i have ever found. we order every window with the lifetime glass breakage warranty and they will replace it no questions asked and i've got the part by the end of the next week. there are very little warranty claims with theirs compared to other brands that are supposedly top of the line that i used to use. one company has lifetime warranty, but they went public and the new owners decided that they didn't want to honor the warranty so i've been replacing seal failed glass out of my own pocket to keep my customers happy. my mom has certainteed windows that we put in with lifetime warranty 20 years ago. she owns the company and they still refused her warranty glass for seal failure as they claim the windows were made by "viwinco of ohio" and that she needed to take that up with them, and they told her certainteed has to authorize warranty parts, over and over in a giant loop until i ordered new glass from elsewhere and fixed them myself. i've had my simonton windows in my house for 7 years and have not replaced anything. that goes for 95% of my customers. occasionally someone lets the pivot pin get out of place when tilting them in to clean and snaps it off putting the sash back up. with the previous window supplier(alside) i was going back to 50% of the jobs for warranty work like broken balance springs or failed glass seals within 3 years of install. that costs me money.

i could never recommend andersen or pella to anyone knowing their product lines.

the $180 any window installed guys.... that's the "caulk and walk" price. wood common(pop 2 sashes out, nail the stops back on, caulk the outside and leave) opening only. the reason is i could do 50 of those in a day with an inept helper. i've done 29 in a normal day by myself before. metal removal is more and should be as it's a pain in the butt and takes 5x more labor than a wood common hole. then you get to add trim coil to the outside. then you add inside stops/trim to the price as your metal window probably doesn't have them. and then your $180 window is $500.

that's my take, i've been installing windows professionally for 20 years, so take it as you will. i've done them all. simonton, andersen, pella, marvin, silver line(lol), atrium, alside, sunshine(out of business, fat load of good that lifetime warranty does now), champion, and a bunch of other brands. out of all those, like i said, i only trust one anymore.

Just to help anyone if they are considering triple pane, I ran two calculations for a generic 1600 sqft home in Wisconsin with 18 windows. The only difference was one had low e 1/4", 1/2" argon, 1/4" clear for the double pane, and the triple pane had low e 1/4", 1/4" argon, 1/8" clear, 1/4" argon, 1/4" clear. (So an extra 1/8" piece of glass in the middle of the argon space.)

With my model it came out to about $38 a year for savings.

In reply to RossD:

Nice, I love when people do the math!

to OP:

2 years ago I did all the main floor windows and upstairs windows in our house with Anderson '200' (i think) vinyl windows. We used 'new construction' rather than 'replacement' windows. Had a carpenter buddy come out and help me, we did 8 windows in two days (most up on a ladder from the outside, and our house was built for side sliding windows, about 5 ft wide and 2.5 ft tall). One of our windows is huge though, it was 11-12 ft wide and about 5 ft tall. Took me calling up my brother in law to get 3 of us to carry the dang thing. Even with three of us (and both my carpenter buddy and brother in law are ex college football players) it was sketchy carrying it.

Long story short we love the windows so far. I will do the remaining 4 or 5 in the basement soon.

Also, I would highly recommend doing 'new construction' and actually taking the old window frames out. One of the main reasons the old windows were crappy was because of their frames, and if you do 'replacement' windows you LEAVE THE CRAPPY FRAMES IN!!! Doesn't make any sense to me.

Been upgrading my house as I can afford it myself for the past few years. First was replace that crappy pressed wood siding that was swelling and splitting with vinyl. That project had project creep big time. Pull siding off and find lots of damage. Ended up tearing the back deck off, replacing a wall from the bay window in the breakfast nook, 2 door frames, 1 door and a couple window frames. All because PO had installed a larger deck fastened to the wood structure of the house. Then rebuilt the deck attached to foundation. The following year I replaced all the windows with vinyl from Window World. Their middle of the line windows. They work great and are a lot quieter than original. The a new roof and kitchen countertops and cooktop stove. Went with Quartz, maintenance free and higher heat tolerance than granite. Less expensive than granite also and looks pretty much the same. Went with a glasstop cooktop stove instead of the type with elements that was there. In a couple days replacing the original carpet. Hardwood in the LR, DR, foyer and hallway. New carpet in bedrooms and closets. SWMBO is insisting I paint the hall this weekend before the new flooring gets installed. Interferes with my plans but she's right, now is the best time to do it. Next will be tile in the bathrooms. Sometime in the next month or two. Also will be replacing the liner in my above ground pool. I think I got maximum use from it. Pool was there when I bought the house 17 years ago and I've never did anything but maintain. They say the liners only last 10 years. Next year refinish the kitchen cabinets. Then maybe I'll get my detached garage. Maybe.

In reply to patgizz:

Never heard of Simonton. They don't sell in my region (under that name).

But like I said, there are actually only 3 or 4 vinyl window companies. They do business under many, many different names, and change frequently.

Thanks for the info and advice from everyone!!!

To date, have had Pella, Sunrise, and Window World out here so far. Sunrise was most expensive, then Pella, then Window World by a bunch (high $20k, low $13k). This is for 38 windows in all. Pella guy keeps calling/emailing with hundreds off here and there and the old "this price is only good for this week" play. Blech.

Liked the Sunrise windows best, seem to have really favorable reviews, but they are the most expensive. Window World looked like a decent product, and they were the only double hung windows (everything else was quoted single hung), but I'm a little concerned that they are too cheap. But two of you in the audience went with WW and seem to be pleased so far.

Keep it coming -- thanks again!

I went with window world on recommendation from co-workers that used them too and like them.