Would you have pulled on them? (More than 100 teens swarm Memphis plaza, 'knocking out' shoppers)

If this were not local news I would think this was fake, lol.

This is Clockwork Orange I guess.

Fueled by Caffeine wrote: why is it the only news outlets that still cover this "knockout" game stuff are Drudge, The Blaze, and Fox.. This event notwithstanding.

Because far more people are actually murdered, and they don't cover that either. 30 death weekend in Chicago is not news.

In reply to kanaric:

And because other media outlets all claim the knockout game is a myth.

Grizz wrote: In reply to kanaric: And because other media outlets all claim the knockout game is a myth.

I've never heard it claimed a myth. Overblown, however, is a different story. There is no assault epidemic going on, violent crime is at an all time low.

Usually people who rant on and on about the knockout game have some agenda.

I usually write it off as mass hysteria. Like this "epidemic" going on in the mid west right now where HUNDREDS of people are sick (OH NOES!!!). Meanwhile the flu is infecting hundreds of thousands.

Damned if you do, damned if you don't on this one.

If I were there, I'd probably do my best to hide even if I were carrying. Even if you shoot the guy doing to stomping and even IF it was on camera (that you were doing it to possibly save the victims life from mob violence), the probability that you would have to shoot another from the crowd and another would be too great. I don't think you'd ever be able to prove you weren't just firing into the crowd.

Now IF my wife and child were there with me, and IF I had a CCW, and EVEN IF it were just a 5-shot .38 with no extra ammo, you can bet your bottom dollar that I'd have that thing out and barkin at anybody who came close enough to smell the hoppes #9.

But that's just "if"...

I'm absolutely shocked that these things happen. This is actually the first time I've heard of such a thing.

I've learned one thing- teens are berkeleying stupid. Years ago I had a kid try and start some mess with me. Was at the mall with my ex and I hear "watch this" from this punk kid. I knew what he was planning to do.... He was planning to split between us like a jackass. So what I did is I subtly dropped my shoulder just enough that I was at sternum height on this kid. He tried to split us, took my shoulder and landed square on his ass. He gets up looks at his friends, looks at me and says "don't go bumping into me, fag". Without uttering a word I dropped my bags, squared up and made it extremely clear I was ready to fight assault charges. He chose the smart path and buggered off with his minions. I suspect this is a similar teenage dick swinging contest.

I feel pretty confident this sort of thing has happened throughout history in one form or another. There just have not been the gadgets / media to make it a "thing".

I had a recent experience with the media trying to make a "thing" out of someone's person tragedy recently. It's a bit sad.

calteg wrote: Never mind the fact that even the most rabid mall ninja carries...what...30 rounds?

That is the mag in the gun and one spare for the vast majority of carry weapons. Most of the guys I know carry 2 spare mags, that would be 45 rounds (46 if carried with one in the pipe). Carry something like a Glock 17 (or a 19 or 26 with 17 mags) that is 51+1. Half the guys I know that do carry also carry a backup. These are normally smaller pocket type guns that hold an additional 5-10 rounds. These are not the "mall ninja" types either.

That large of a crowd would be a bitch to try and turn with a single firearm. If you had several people armed together say 4 or 5 and they were able to put their back to a safe spot it is POSSIBLE they could do enough damage that the others would just turn and run. You might have some guys try and rush you no matter what. More than likely even though you justifiably would be in fear for your life you would be hung by the media (especially if you dared to shoot someone that was not the same race as you).

Personally if I had ZERO chance of getting away from something like that I wouldn't want to pull with anything less than this and a few extra drums.

Now if they turn to go after my wife or child I would drop every last person I could and keep fighting after the gun ran dry and until I was completely incapacitated. I wouldn't care if all I had were my fists at that point I will stop at nothing to protect them. Thankfully living in a small town like we do the chances of running into this problem are fairly slim.

I love how none of you internet badasses have brought up the idea of simply removing yourself from the situation.

Picking a fight or pulling a weapon is the LAST choice, not the first.

As someone said, this isn't like the movies.

dculberson wrote:

T.J. wrote: I predict that Obama will not give a speech about this or send Eric Holder in to investigate. Jessie Jackson nor Al Sharpton will show up and make speeches or lead a candlelight vigil either. This is a typical scene in many of our cities, but doesn't get the coverage of the very few crimes that are white on black.

Nice flounder.

how is it a flounder? is anything in that post untrue?

Trans_Maro wrote: I love how none of you internet badasses have brought up the idea of simply removing yourself from the situation. Picking a fight or pulling a weapon is the LAST choice, not the first. As someone said, this isn't like the movies.

A hundred teenage kids are really easy to run from...

Dunno about knockout games, but kids running in packs like that are not terribly unusual. I am a bit wondering about there being a hundred, I'd guess closer to 25-30.

Anyway, a buddy some years back was an MP, I once saw him stand down a group of at least 15 all. by. himself. with NO weapon of any sort; only presence. He's not even a particularly big guy. It happened outside a movie theater and this 'pack' was harassing/blocking patrons, also banging on store windows, blocking doors, just general asshattery.

If he had told me beforehand what he was gonna do I would have called an ambulance to come scrape his ass up off the sidewalk. But no, it worked perfectly; he picked out one guy who seemed to be a 'leader' and got right up in his face. The crowd just melted away.

To answer the question, if I was in typical "out" mode, meaning carrying with wife and four kids:

I would hide as quickly as possible, keeping myself in front of the family. I would probably unholster and keep at the ready low. If I saw a shopper getting kicked in the head on the ground, I would shoot the attacker. if anyone approached me, I would shoot to protect my family.

I would not attempt to stop the mob by myself, nor would I seek out superhero status by righting all wrongs.

novaderrik wrote:

dculberson wrote:

T.J. wrote: I predict that Obama will not give a speech about this or send Eric Holder in to investigate. Jessie Jackson nor Al Sharpton will show up and make speeches or lead a candlelight vigil either. This is a typical scene in many of our cities, but doesn't get the coverage of the very few crimes that are white on black.

Nice flounder.

how is it a flounder? is anything in that post untrue?

Because apologists are everywhere...My generation has been conditioned to believe that there is no such thing as personal responsibility, and that generally, society is charged with upholding your best interests, not the other way around.

A lot of "If it were me" posts so far...I can honestly say I dont usually react quickly to things like this, I know, for a fact, that for at least a moment, I would freeze - not out of fear, but because I, for whatever reason, dont process events like this quickly. That said, Im pretty sure that I would be the type to go toward the incident versus move away from it...if I were alone. Now if SWMBO were in the picture, finding my way to the nearest exit would be top priority.

I was at a theater some years ago when a somewhat racially charged movie was playing. A brawl erupted when a douchenozzle accepted a call in the theater and was talking above the audio. People got dumbtarded, spouting off whatever racial absurdity they could think of, and sh|t jumped off. It took me a moment to understand really what was happening in that moment. Once I realized the seriousness of the situation, and because the girlfriend was there, I immediately removed us from the situation. I can say that I know how I would react, because I have been there. But, its not likely that I would immediately go into be-a-badass mode, no matter how I wish that were the case. But like I said, if I were alone, I would feel compelled to help others - not necessarily violently, but I would be defensive if the situation warranted it.

If something like this ever does happen somewhere Im shopping, I hope the store carries Louisville Sluggers. I had a great average when I played ball back in the day. I still remember the fundamentals of batting...

I am not personally responsible for another's conduct.

I am in no way obligated to throw my body down or risk my liberty in a mass hysteria situation. Anything I do will likely just add to the hysteria and cause me liability.

I would pull an injured party to safety, pulling a weapon is out of the question.

kanaric wrote: This is Clockwork Orange I guess.

Re-watching that mob clip while singing "Puttin' on the Rape" in Malcolm MacDowell's voice makes me laugh.

tuna55 wrote: To answer the question, if I was in typical "out" mode, meaning carrying with wife and four kids: I would hide as quickly as possible, keeping myself in front of the family. I would probably unholster and keep at the ready low. If I saw a shopper getting kicked in the head on the ground, I would shoot the attacker. if anyone approached me, I would shoot to protect my family. I would not attempt to stop the mob by myself, nor would I seek out superhero status by righting all wrongs.

This is what I would do, with or without the wife/family/friends. Get yourself as far removed from the situation as you can and "be a good witness". Cornered, with no escape? I feel sorry for the pile of E36 M3's family because they're going to be burying him.

Trans_Maro wrote: I love how none of you internet badasses have brought up the idea of simply removing yourself from the situation. Picking a fight or pulling a weapon is the LAST choice, not the first. As someone said, this isn't like the movies.

Fairly certain if someone says "if I had ZERO chances of getting away". That means the first thing they would do is try and remove themselves from a situation.

However I don't know how malls are out in thour neck of the woods but the ones in areas I have been to always seem to have spots where if you had a crowd like that moving in on you then you would be berkeleyed with basically no place to go.

And yeah if it comes down to protecting my family I will stop at nothing to do that. You really think I am going to let some pack of animals charge my wife and a newborn? Maybe I am a bit over protective but they are the most important thing in the world to me and I would do anything to protect them from harm.

I would not dream of going to the local mall on Friday or Saturday evening.

If I'm not mistaken, this happened at a grocery store. Not the usual mob scene location. But I guess you gots to go where the peeps (victims) is.

Trans_Maro wrote: I love how none of you internet badasses have brought up the idea of simply removing yourself from the situation. Picking a fight or pulling a weapon is the LAST choice, not the first. As someone said, this isn't like the movies.

That's what i would TRY to do, but...

That didn't work out so well for the kid that got stomped in the video.

spitfirebill wrote: I would not dream of going to the local mall on Friday or Saturday evening. If I'm not mistaken, this happened at a grocery store. Not the usual mob scene location. But I guess you gots to go where the peeps (victims) is.

Yep, we don't even go to the movies on those nights either.

Movie theater = sunday morning or not going. I try to keep myself out of those situations rather than figuring out how to safely egress in one of those situations.

I'm not sure who you people are standing around with guns and bats --- but when I see a mob of people all headed the same way and they are not being chased by Godzilla or an army of giant insects... I stay on my feet and keep on moving in some other direction.

Nothing good ever happens where they are going.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I'm not sure who you people are standing around with guns and bats --- but when I see a mob of people all headed the same way and they are not being chased by Godzilla or an army of giant insects... I stay on my feet and keep on moving in some other direction. Nothing good ever happens where they are going.

It's not always that easy with any kids in tow. Especially as you'd want them in front of you, which means agreeing on a direction, which basically is like starting a "what car?" thread here with no parameters.

In other words, hunkering down sounds a lot more manageable than four kids all simultaneously picking different directions.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I'm not sure who you people are standing around with guns and bats --- but when I see a mob of people all headed the same way and they are not being chased by Godzilla or an army of giant insects... I stay on my feet and keep on moving in some other direction. Nothing good ever happens where they are going.

I've worked in this environment before- this stuff just erupts around you. I've had no less than half a dozen fights break out in store I've been managing in the past. Most of the time I'm able to direct them with a simple "I don't care if you berkeley each other up, but don't berkeley up my store" and they leave. Once I even told em "Dude, I know y'all are about to throw down. I don't care. Just don't do it in my store". They packed it up, took it right out in front of my store, and next thing I knew I had 20 dumbasses mixing it up over a girl or some stupid E36 M3. I got all my customers out of the way, and just let it ride. I was reasonably sure none of them was armed, and I certainly was not. There was ANOTHER time I had to take one of my ferrets to an emergency vet as he was seizing hardcore. It was my wife, myself and my 6 month old child. For whatever stupid reason, half a dozen morons started mixing it up in the parking lot. I made sure they were safe and I kept an eye on the situation. More out of curiousity than anything- because who fights in a vet clinic parking lot? One dude went to jail, couple others got some stolen jeans back, and so on. I could go on for hours about stupid E36 M3 that's happened to me.... I swear to god I'm a magnet for morons. As a result- I'm constantly doing threat assessment. I know every exit, every door, ways to get my family out, and so on. I also know, and commit myself to the possibility of having to explain some very nasty things to the law. It's not about being an internet tough guy for me. I've quite literally had my life threatened (Like, dude was paying to have me killed), and in that moment, you learn what you're going to do. I learned what I will and will not do. What I wrote previously is an example of that. I don't want my child to ever have to see daddy commit an act like that, but I want him and my wife to know that I am more than willing to do whatever it takes to ensure that they will remain safe. Obviously one takes the less harmful route- because once you pull a weapon, E36 M3 gets real. There's no de-escalating that, you've gone as far as you can go, and you've said "I'm going to berkeleying kill you". But sometimes, you have to be prepared for that option.

tuna55 wrote:

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: I'm not sure who you people are standing around with guns and bats --- but when I see a mob of people all headed the same way and they are not being chased by Godzilla or an army of giant insects... I stay on my feet and keep on moving in some other direction. Nothing good ever happens where they are going.

It's not always that easy with any kids in tow. Especially as you'd want them in front of you, which means agreeing on a direction, which basically is like starting a "what car?" thread here with no parameters. In other words, hunkering down sounds a lot more manageable than four kids all simultaneously picking different directions.

After spending the week with my young (4 and 18mo) nephews, I believe the phrase you're looking for is "herding cats". Don't get me wrong, I love my nephews with all my heart.... but holy crap there's so much going on when they're on the move and in public.

I don't ever carry any spare mags/ammo. I carry what's in the weapon (5, 9, 11 or 13rds) and that's it. It's literally my last, got no where else to go kill or be killed "nukuler" option. I prefer to rely on my SA and keep from getting stuck in the type of situation where I have to worry about that, even more so worry I don't have enough ammo.

I only have one, and it's impossible to keep a direction on that bugger. I'm about to sticking a dune buggy flag on him just so I know where he is. Herding cats is about right. Cats on meth.