You can't find help.

FWIW, here is where I am coming from - not that I'm making sweeping judgements here or anything, but I do want to share my perspective. 

I started work at 13. That was the first real job. Before that, I mowed lawns and shoveled snow. Never had an allowance. I was a caddie. At 18, I added ice hockey referee to the resume (still doing that to this day, or will be once we get Covid under control). I loved caddying. I love reffing. But they don't pay the bills for a family, at least not the lifestyle that we want to live. Why is that? Well, it is enjoyable work. If it wasn't, we'd get paid more. We have a hard time filling Adult League games. They're late at night. They only pay $45. I have to get up and work the next day, it takes 3 hours out of my free time, it just isn't worth it. The leagues complain about the quality of refs... Well, you guys don't pay enough. You're scraping the bottom of the barrel. Pay more, or uphold our game misconducts, make the game take less time, you'll get better refs. It doesn't ever happen. I still do it occasionally for those games, but only when it is super convenient for me. Obviously the pay isn't the only issue here, but it is a glaring one. 

I'd still be caddying to this day if the job offered benefits. But it doesn't. So while my take home pay was more than my first couple of jobs out of college, it was less overall compensation. 

But right now, in Covid? I can definitely see not finding people to work. The $600 a week benefit is $15 an hour. How good are your health benefits? I couldn't afford them if I had a family on $15 an hour, so you'd better be paying more than $15 an hour (I know that the $600 has expired, just stating the argument). Myself? I'd take the unemployment unless the job prospect was really good. Garbage man? That may be really good, honestly, depending on the retirement and health benefits. But working at Target? Nah, thanks though. I'd take the unemployment, flip items off of craigslist/facebook/garage sales, and learn a new skill or 4. 

EDIT: Also, a top consideration for my wife and I right now in any job prospects: What are you doing to protect me from Covid? Are you letting me work from home, if it is a desk job? 

The unemployment benefits + COVID are screwing everything up right now. 

But there are also plenty of people who couldn't count back change that think they should earn far more than should.

You would think since lots are working from home now that gas prices would still be low and internet would go up.  Comcast if you are listening don't you dare

My guess is that there is an ongoing labour shortage that has been emphasized by the pandemic.

z31maniac said:

The unemployment benefits + COVID are screwing everything up right now. 

But there are also plenty of people who couldn't count back change that think they should earn far more than should.

 

We were at a cash only establishment the other day (pumpkin patch in an area without good internet or cell service, so they definitely get a pass for being cash only). Total came out to $16. I handed her a $20 and a $1. She was so utterly confused by the $1. I mean, I guess for a kid - she was around 17? - that makes sense, but I still had to explain it twice that she was giving me a $5 bill back instead of four $1 bills, twice. 

Placemotorsports said:

You would think since lots are working from home now that gas prices would still be low and internet would go up.  Comcast if you are listening don't you dare

Cox actually dropped our internet bill by $35/month. I hope it stays that way.

Many years ago the glue factory that I worked at hired production workers at a whopping 50 cents an hour above minimum wage. It was an absolute disaster of a work environment. Employees didn't care about anything, frequently called in or just didn't show up or failed their drug tests (usually meth).  

Then the company was bought out and new management stepped in and raised the starting wage a staggering $5 an hour and all of the sudden the new hires were conscientious, hard working and reliable.  Employee turnover plummeted, overall costs went down and production went way up.  The manager said it was a variation on the dress for the job you want, not the one you have idea. 

I learned a lot from that guy. 

Duke said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Steve_Jones said:

It's amazing how many people don't want to work, but wonder why they're broke. It's never their fault though. 

It's also amazing that the hardest, most physical, and hard environment work is also paid the least. 
 

So much for hard work paying off 

Stamina is cheaper than skill.

 

But should it be?

We all heard the joke about the brain, the legs, and the stomach all arguing about who was the most important part of the body.

Till the  butt-hole got tired of hearing it and went on strike to prove a point .

My goal is to retire and work at Weathertech (read make less) which is 15 minutes from my house.   

All day long I can talk car mats.  "What kind of car do you have?.........those are awesome.....oh yeah?.......logdog on the GRM Forum has one of those (or Wally / Woody)

Datsun310Guy said:

My goal is to retire and work at Weathertech (read make less) which is 15 minutes from my house.   

All day long I can talk car mats.  "What kind of car do you have?.........those are awesome.....oh yeah?.......logdog on the GRM Forum has one of those (or Wally / Woody)

Buddy of mine retired from a professional career and became a lot porter at a Porsche dealer.

When the guy at the drive-thru can't even get my order correct when it's on a screen in front of him, why should he be paid more than minimum in the hope that he might give a damn if he gets more money? 

z31maniac said:

The unemployment benefits + COVID are screwing everything up right now. 

But there are also plenty of people who couldn't count back change that think they should earn far more than should.

 

The extra unemployment benefits ended 8 weeks ago.

I maintain, if you can't find workers, you aren't paying enough.

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

The $600/week COVID unemployment benefits stopped 8 weeks ago.

ShawnG said:

When the guy at the drive-thru can't even get my order correct when it's on a screen in front of him, why should he be paid more than minimum in the hope that he might give a damn if he gets more money? 

 

It's not that he'll be any better at his job, it's that they'll be able to afford to pay someone better to do the job.

As for pay not being commensurate with the work someone does, I think I read somewhere the average truck driver nowadays only has 1 year of experience, because turnover is so high.  The work environment has become so crappy, and the pay isn't good enough anymore.  For what it costs to train and license a driver, I'd think it'd be worth it for the transportation companies to pay well enough to keep the good ones on the payroll.

Javelin (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

The $600/week COVID unemployment benefits stopped 8 weeks ago.

See bolded part. 

mtn (Forum Supporter) said:

But right now, in Covid? I can definitely see not finding people to work. The $600 a week benefit is $15 an hour. How good are your health benefits? I couldn't afford them if I had a family on $15 an hour, so you'd better be paying more than $15 an hour (I know that the $600 has expired, just stating the argument). Myself? I'd take the unemployment unless the job prospect was really good. Garbage man? That may be really good, honestly, depending on the retirement and health benefits. But working at Target? Nah, thanks though. I'd take the unemployment, flip items off of craigslist/facebook/garage sales, and learn a new skill or 4. 

 

In reply to mtn (Forum Supporter) :

Right, but I'm pointing out that that argument really isn't valid anymore. It's not like it just ended. I think your point becomes an argument for Universal Basic Income actually.

(starts to make a reply, remembers to scroll up, notices thread has exploded to three pages already)

I see the amazing idea that the laws of supply and demand also function for attracting employees, has been covered massively 

Trent (Generally supportive dude) said:

Many years ago the glue factory that I worked at hired production workers at a whopping 50 cents an hour above minimum wage. It was an absolute disaster of a work environment. Employees didn't care about anything, frequently called in or just didn't show up or failed their drug tests (usually meth).  

 

Then the company was bought out and new management stepped in and raised the starting wage a staggering $5 an hour and all of the sudden the new hires were conscientious, hard working and reliable.  Employee turnover plummeted, overall costs went down and production went way up.  The manager said it was a variation on the dress for the job you want, not the one you have idea. 

 

I learned a lot from that guy. 

Henry Ford 

was having trouble finding workers so he doubled the wages to $5 a day from $2.50. 
He got so many good applicants he became the richest man in America. 
He got greedy and when other factories were paying more he decided to bring in strike breakers at which point he started to lose domination of the Auto market.  
GM caught up and passed him and Ford has been trying to claw their way back ever since. 

I used to hear this a lot at a former employer. Boss had written off society because he couldn't find someone to work 60 hours a week on a construction site for $10.50 an hour and no benefits. Also couldn't understand why he couldn't find a good part time admin assistant for less than $12 an hour. No benefits either. 

We hired three today.

May the odds ever be in their favor.

Duke said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Steve_Jones said:

It's amazing how many people don't want to work, but wonder why they're broke. It's never their fault though. 

It's also amazing that the hardest, most physical, and hard environment work is also paid the least. 
 

So much for hard work paying off 

Stamina is cheaper than skill.

 

You've never worked in the adult film industry and it shows. 

Found out today that the guy I've been filling in for just got a job at the newest factory in town. They build air compressors. He's in the heat/air conditioning, and most importantly out of the weather. He has a shift with a defined start and end time.

The pay? Starts at $18/hour. Which for here in low-cost-of-living, where-else-you-gonna-go Kentucky, is pretty good.

He'll be making more money, and not having to work as hard.

Since we're on the subject of pay, let me break down how we get paid.

This young man, and myself, were paid a daily rate. We show up, do our work that day, earn x amount of dollars. The faster you work, the more you dollar amount per hour is. Theoretically, if you could complete your routes in 35 hours, you still get paid the same as if it were 40.

But, it's impossible to do this within 40. Hell I was pretty quick and it still took me around 50 per week. Now, there is overtime for this kind of pay, but it's what is called Chinese Overtime and that's a subject for another thread.

This poor guy was taking allllll day to do his routes. He was paid $140 per day. In a perfect world, that's $17.50 an hour. But he didn't earn time and a half on that when he went over 40 hours, which he did so usually sometime Thursday morning.

I'm also paid this way, however I'm usually done and can scoot by about 1:30 pm. I come in at 7.

I'm on the fence about going hourly because under normal circumstances, I can make decent money and not have to sit there waiting on quitting time. But, the Tuesday shift that I mentioned earlier? I hauled about 70% of that route (another driver came out and helped. He started at the end and ran it backwards until we met.)

And then I jumped in my usual truck and did that job until about 4:45. That's about 12 hours and 50 minutes. What did I earn?

My day rate.

Long days you get screwed, short days you smell like a rose.

I'm trying to figure out which there's more of.

captdownshift (Forum Supporter) said:

Duke said:

alfadriver (Forum Supporter) said:

Steve_Jones said:

It's amazing how many people don't want to work, but wonder why they're broke. It's never their fault though. 

It's also amazing that the hardest, most physical, and hard environment work is also paid the least. 
 

So much for hard work paying off 

Stamina is cheaper than skill.

 

You've never worked in the adult film industry and it shows. 

Lack of stamina or skill ain't the only reasons I've never worked in the adult film industry...

In reply to BoostedBrandon :

Wow. No wonder you can't keep employees

I had to google "Chinese overtime" 

That system seems terrible.

Trent (Generally supportive dude) said:

In reply to BoostedBrandon :

Wow. No wonder you can't keep employees

I had to google "Chinese overtime" 

That system seems terrible.

I never heard of Chinese Overtme either, but it doesn't sound terrible to me - seems like it only applies to salaried workers.

So considering that regular overtime pay for salaried workers varies between "hahahaha suck it" and "yeah, take a day off sometime", even getting half pay for your OT is better than no pay.