Your comments please on this "Cost of Living" spreadsheet

EDIT: Can anyone explain to me how to do bullets?

I like spreadsheets, and I like thinking about money and the future. So this morning I sat down and put this together. I didn't put much time into it (about 20 minutes), nor did I put much research into it--it is very much just to get an idea of things. Since you guys are about the dumbest bunch of idiots on the internet, I'd like to have your opinions and your comments on it.

To explain some of it:

• This is where I would like to be in about 4 years. I will have graduated college, and there is a good chance of being married by then--hopefully there will be two incomes.
• By the grace of our loving parents, I will be debt free, and there is a good chance that she will too.
• We want kids, but not until we are about 30 (21 and 22 now).
• I'm making the assumption that we will have employer-provided health insurance.
• There are a lot of guesses--the entire home expense, for example, is unknown.
• Some of this is skewed by a college mindset. I doubt that I'll be eating macaroni and cheese four days a week at this point (but I do like my mac and cheese)
• The cars are based on what we have now--2003 Corolla, and 1999 Miata. The Miata is also the autocrosser, but I'm keeping expenses for autocrossing and daily driving separate.
• My dad has always said, allow $100 a month for surprise car expenses per car. I'm putting this at $75--this is using a Corolla and a Miata as opposed to my dads fleet of BMW, BMW, SAAB, etc.
• Car insurance will likely be lower for us by then. I'm keeping it where it costs us now; but even that figure is likely too high.
• Autocross is assuming 10 events a year, with hopes of 2 national level events. This is another big unknown because I could be in a completely different car by then.
• The "Fun" column is likely too high. I doubt that we would spend $200 a month on entertainment. But it could happen.
• Scroll down and you'll see my inflation calculator too.
• I didn't include a dog expense. How much does a dog cost per month or per year? We'll be having at least one dog.

This link should work: https://spreadsheets.google.com/ccc?key=0Am2g02d7X8CndG9mZnhwVU51c29IQzRCQnhVNHJNTEE&hl=en&authkey=COWst8kG

Couple of points:

• I don't think that saving for kid's college should happen before the kids happen.
• I assume that the Oh E36 M3 fund is the emergency fund. In that case, I would put a lot more money into it, especially if the kids haven't happened. I think the Dave Ramsey rule of 3-6 months expenses is a good one, I would personally prefer more (says the bloke who hasn't managed a month yet) but I'd put some of the emergency fund for the long end into less accessible instruments (say, CDs instead of a money market account).
• No idea how much a dog costs on average, I'm budgeting a couple of hundred for our cat in order to be able to save up some money for vet expenses at the moment.
• The house maintenance allocation seems a little high, the usual recommendation is around 1% of the value/purchase price. The again, sir might be planning for a mansion .
• I created the bullets by typing 'space','dash','space'

• Have a plan B in case the relationship goes awry. You two will be COMPLETELY different people by age 30--I know, I know--you're deeply in love.

• TRUST ME. Have a plan B.

The woman in the next office spent nearly $1500 on her dog this last week after a couple emergency visits to the vet. That's not typical, of course, but stuff happens.

Hmm... that's not a bad start.

• Does Molly play hockey or the guitar? You may need more for her hobbies.

• 3% growth in expenses may be reasonable. Don't expect to match it in salary- that's way too optimistic.

• Do you have current job offers? If not, $70,940 is totally out of line for 2011. 1 month is already gone, you aren't graduated yet, and lots of people can't find jobs at all.

• What happens if Molly's (or your) internal clock speeds up, and kids become a higher priority? I love the idea that you are starting by putting money away for this, but you could loose 50% of your projected income for a period of time.

• I also love the idea that you are staring early with a priority of saving for retirement. The longer the term of putting money aside the better, even if it is a small amount. It should be a higher priority than kid's college. Scholarships are available, but no one is going to pay you to retire.

• On food... My wife feeds our family of 5 for about $100 per week. We don't eat fancy.

• On fun... I sure wish we could spend $800 per month. I don't know anyone with anywhere near that much disposable income.

I'd try to build the budget assuming:

• Very low income for the first 2 years for both of you (unless you already have jobs/ offers).

• Limited salary growth- you may even want to assume this remains level, depending on the business you are going into.

• Assume kids at 30, but plan for them at 26.

• You have started with the expenses, and built a budget from that (I'm assuming you will then look for a job that offers that much). I generally start with the income, and build the budget backwards. (What is reasonable in your area for your intended occupation?)

$200/mo is way low for "fun" IMO.

You going to have cable? $50-110 of your monthly fun is shot to hell right there. Dinner out once a month? Another $50-$150 depending on where and what. Rent movies (or worse... go to them?)... yeah. It adds up fast. Its 2x everything plus another 1x for keeping women comfortable when you travel in pairs.

My 35lb terrier eats about $40 a month between actual food, treats and chew toys. Worm and flea/tick are about $100 annual. He has been healthy for his entire 12yr run but annual vet visits are $140 each no matter what they entail.

When you don't have kids and are healthy - put 3-6 mos of living lean in the bank and then live it up a little. Travel, race... whatever floats your boat. When kids come along you won't have the opportunity to be selfish and your wife will be somebody's mother.

Be prudent but live well. Better to squander your money than your time - you can always make more money but the clock only runs out.

Too many assumptions...

Have you factored in what a wedding will cost?
Your opinion of how to do it inexpensively may very much differ from her opinion.
Plan for it to be similar to the price of a new car (Lexus to Scion) if she wants the full deal.
Maybe the price of a used car (Lexus to Scion) if you scale it back.
It will likely not be priced like any used car that you can list on this website

Cell phone, cable / internets, garbage if not included in your taxes, property taxes (I think I see $500 for this? May be high or low depending on your location), income taxes, mortgage insurance depending on your down payment, electric bill, heating bill, ...

you're missing a few expenses. Aside from that, you've done a good job trying to figure it all out! More than most people bother at double your age.

Depending on your employer you may get some help on your retirement fund in the way of a 401k, etc. For health care, again depends on your employer, and there are also tax considerations here.

Thanks for the comments everyone.

BoxheadTim wrote: - I don't think that saving for kid's college should happen before the kids happen. - I assume that the Oh E36 M3 fund is the emergency fund. In that case, I would put a lot more money into it, especially if the kids haven't happened. I think the Dave Ramsey rule of 3-6 months expenses is a good one, I would personally prefer more (says the bloke who hasn't managed a month yet) but I'd put some of the emergency fund for the long end into less accessible instruments (say, CDs instead of a money market account).

On the first point... I'd agree with you except that I'm not out of college yet. My parents helped me, and my girlfriends parents helped her on top of her getting a full scholarship the first year at a state school. I have friends who will probably be in debt for at least ten years. I think the saving for it now is a good idea. If 18 years later there are no kids, then I'll buy a Porsche.
On the second, this is what is added monthly to the "Oh E36 M3" fund. It would be already funded by this time (4 years in the future)

gamby wrote: - Have a plan B in case the relationship goes awry. You two will be COMPLETELY different people by age 30--I know, I know--you're deeply in love. - TRUST ME. Have a plan B.

I'm well aware of this, and I do.

SVreX wrote: - Does Molly play hockey or the guitar? You may need more for her hobbies. - 3% growth in expenses may be reasonable. Don't expect to match it in salary- that's way too optimistic. - Do you have current job offers? If not, $70,940 is totally out of line for 2011. 1 month is already gone, you aren't graduated yet, and lots of people can't find jobs at all. - What happens if Molly's (or your) internal clock speeds up, and kids become a higher priority? I love the idea that you are starting by putting money away for this, but you could loose 50% of your projected income for a period of time. - On food... My wife feeds our family of 5 for about $100 per week. We don't eat fancy. - On fun... I sure wish we could spend $800 per month. I don't know anyone with anywhere near that much disposable income. - Very low income for the first 2 years for both of you (unless you already have jobs/ offers).

She figure skates and enjoys hockey, so she gets included on that. Aside from this, if need be I can get my fill just reffing it (and getting paid). As for guitar--well, its only $10 a month in strings, if that. I gave her the same budget that I projected for my autocrossing, although I highly doubt that she would get into anything for that much. She's pretty frugal.

I put the 3% there for an idea of what is needed each year to keep up the same standard of living. And we're not looking for 70k in 2011, we're looking for 77-80k in 2014-2015.

If the internal clock speeds up, then autocrossing is scrapped if need be. Then whatever else needs to be scrapped... is scrapped.

Feeding a family of 5 on $100 is encouraging.

On the fun issue with $800 a month... Yeah, I/we'll have to scale back. That is why this is being at least thought about before I'm in the real world (I like this fake one so much better).

Neither of us have "career" jobs or offers, we're still in college, but we both have some good things going for us in that regard. I'm majoring in Math with minors in Economics and Business Administration. Depending on what exactly I go into (read: where do I get offers), the average starting salary would be between 38k and 58k. She is studying to be a dietitian, with starting salary averaging about 40k.

Giant Purple Snorklewacker wrote: $200/mo is way low for "fun" IMO. You going to have cable? $50-110 of your monthly fun is shot to hell right there. Dinner out once a month? Another $50-$150 depending on where and what. Rent movies (or worse... go to them?)... yeah. It adds up fast. Its 2x everything plus another 1x for keeping women comfortable when you travel in pairs. When you don't have kids and are healthy - put 3-6 mos of living lean in the bank and then live it up a little. Travel, race... whatever floats your boat. When kids come along you won't have the opportunity to be selfish and your wife will be somebody's mother. Be prudent but live well. Better to squander your money than your time - you can always make more money but the clock only runs out.

We are not going to have cable. I don't have it now. She does (her roommate pays), but the only thing she uses it for is a Jersey Shore drinking game with her friends. As for dinner out once a month, I doubt that we would be spending more than $100 a night, and probably less. We both drink water, rarely get an appetizer, and never get desert. We get movies from the library.

This does raise another expense though: internet and cell phones. That will put a dent in the budget.

I bet we could actually do the living lean for a year or two. Good advice.

jrw1621 wrote: Have you factored in what a wedding will cost? Your opinion of how to do it inexpensively may very much differ from her opinion. Plan for it to be similar to the price of a new car (Lexus to Scion) if she wants the full deal. Maybe the price of a used car (Lexus to Scion) if you scale it back. It will likely not be priced like any used car that you can list on this website

Ugg... Forgot about that.

mtn wrote: I put the 3% there for an idea of what is needed each year to keep up the same standard of living. And we're not looking for 70k in 2011, we're looking for 77-80k in 2014-2015.

OK, So you are... a sophomore?

I admire your willingness to plan ahead, but a lot is going to change in the next couple of years. There is virtually nothing on that spreadsheet that you can expect to come to fruition.

I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I'm just being honest.

2 years from now, you will have different interests, she will have different interests, 30 will seem like MUCH to long to wait for kids for someone, you WILL be considering those big wedding expenses, the job market will have changed, the economy will be different, etc. etc. etc.

But I certainly hope that your optimism has not changed!

I realize as a Math major with minors in Economics and Business Administration that it seems very logical that life can be laid out on a spreadsheet...

...as my grandmother used to say, "Pe-shaw"

SVreX wrote: OK, So you are... a sophomore? I admire your willingness to plan ahead, but a lot is going to change in the next couple of years. There is virtually nothing on that spreadsheet that you can expect to come to fruition. I'm not trying to be a wet blanket, I'm just being honest. 2 years from now, you will have different interests, she will have different interests, 30 will seem like MUCH to long to wait for kids for someone, you WILL be considering those big wedding expenses, the job market will have changed, the economy will be different, etc. etc. etc. But I certainly hope that your optimism has not changed! I realize as a Math major with minors in Economics and Business Administration that it seems very logical that life can be laid out on a spreadsheet... ...as my grandmother used to say, "Pe-shaw"

Junior with a possibility of graduating after first semester next year. And I don't see you as being a wet blanket; its good advice. I realize everything could change, but I like to get stuff laid out. I can change the spreadsheet when life changes.

$1500/month house payment on $70k a year?

I know that area is ~15% State Farm employees with nice salaries, but are homes really that expensive there?

z31maniac wrote: $1500/month house payment on $70k a year? I know that area is ~15% State Farm employees with nice salaries, but are homes really that expensive there?

Can be, but probably not. I have no idea what the average mortgage payment is. Like I said, the housing part of it is all guessed--I really have NO idea on that part of it. And all of this is just speculation, as has been mentioned there could be a LOT of changes in the next few years that I can't foresee. This is mostly just to get the whole budget-thing in motion so I'll actually have an idea of what I can afford when I get into the real world.

You should check into home prices then so you can try to budget more accordingly.

Even a $100k house with no downpayment and decent interest rate is only going to be around $500/month before you add in insurance/property tax/PMI/etc.

SVreX wrote: 30 will seem like MUCH to long to wait for kids for someone,

With the exception of a couple of people, most of my friends didn't start having kids til they were 30. A lot of women who put big careers first, I suppose.

mtn wrote: If the internal clock speeds up, then autocrossing is scrapped if need be. Then whatever else needs to be scrapped... is scrapped.

Most of my car activities got scrapped after buying my house (kept the car from that "era", though). Most of my freinds involved in cars got out of the picture as well.

To get philosphical for a second--

I've noticed that everything great/interesting that I've done in life runs in roughly 5 year cycles. You get engrossed, there's a specific group of friends involved and then, bit by bit it breaks down and you move onto something else. Without fail, it happened with everything I've been passionate about--cars, music, skateboarding--everything.

Thus, planning ahead is sometimes impossible--you never know where life will take you--especially at 21 (if you told me how in 1993 how life would be at 38, I might have had a stroke).

SVreX wrote: - On fun... I sure wish we could spend $800 per month. I don't know anyone with anywhere near that much disposable income.

Hi! We've met before.

Ah, the joys of youth.

Osterkraut wrote:

SVreX wrote: - On fun... I sure wish we could spend $800 per month. I don't know anyone with anywhere near that much disposable income.

Hi! We've met before. Ah, the joys of youth.

<--quietly introduces himself

^The joys of being DINKs!!!

I think I'd be embarrassed for others to see our restaurant/alcohol/fun budget. And we both drive new cars.

I tell myself we are just being good americans, trying to help the economy!

z31maniac wrote: ^The joys of being DINKs!!!

this

OK, I stand corrected.

But I've got joys of my own as a SI5K!

However, since he's already said that kids are in the future, your DINKs examples don't count.

Yes, I am aware that my Si5K example might not work either.

Still wouldn't trade the joys I've got for anything!

Not bad - others mentioned taxes. Also usually an employee contribution to health insurance and some out of pocket expenses like co-pays and deductibles. If you get an older house there could be upgrades and other bits. I've got a couple of big dogs - so closer to $100/month and a couple of years ago one of our great pyrenees needed knee surgery. When she got home she was so excited she ripped the pins out - surgery had to be redone. She's an expensive hound.

There's also an old saying - men plan, god laughs

What on earth are you eating that costs $600 a month? With my wife, myself, and a two year old our total expenses including a $640 mortgage are only $1300 a month. Granted, most people aren't willing to live like we do but your numbers seem WAY high to me.

The cost of living in Illinois can't be that much higher than it is in Ohio.

Yeah, unless you already have offers for jobs (which, as a junior I highly doubt), you really can't budget. I was underemployed (working delivering chinese food) for 5 months after I graduated. You never know what is going to happen. I was down to 200 dollars in my hand, an overdrawn bank account and 6000 dollars in credit card debt before I swallowed my pride and moved back in with my parents.

Even now that both me and my girlfriend have full time jobs, we only pull 50,000 annually.

Don't "plan" for the future until you know all of the parts of the puzzle that make the plan.

Oh, and thus far, our dog has only cost us one bag of dog food per month, plus heartworm and flea and tick medication. Budget a little more than that, though, for unexpected issues.

Everyone's made some great points which I wont reiterate much.

I thought I'd chime in on the dog thing since I seem to be the king of "cheap dogs aren't cheap"

The 2 dogs I sadly lost last year cost me enough in medical bills monthly to cover a car payment, a very nice car payment, like a new BMW or Mercedes.

Pets (and kids for that matter) can gut you on vet bills even if there is no emergency.

I had 3 full time care dogs (down to one now) One was diabetic, needles and insulin are not cheap and he required quarterly glucose curve screening at the vet (an all day $$ affair) The other had an odd disease which required medication to the tune of $300 a month. Through some careful research and work with our vet we were able to eventually find a substitute therapy which made it about $300 every 6 months, still alot.

Our last one, still with us thankfully, needs shots every 3 weeks so again needles and medication, and multiple checks at the vet each year.

And the so-called "pet insurance" programs out there cover none of this.

Just be aware, cheap pets are like cheap porsches ;)

Someone else said it best above "men plan, god laughs"

I commend you for making a plan though, its more than most do. Just remember that everything is in flux at all times, plans are good, but plans are guesses and need to be able to be adjusted as the need arises.