Your thoughts on manual trans for new driver

1988RedT2 wrote:

stuart in mn wrote: I don't see any problem with having a manual transmission, but what does your son want?

Absolutely irrelevant, unless said son is independently wealthy and will pay his own money to purchase, insure, and fuel the automobile. Even then, it is Dad's right and duty to "guide" his son as he sees fit. And given that the car in question is a BMW, the son will be ecstatic that he is blessed with such a car and will be eternally grateful to his father for allowing him to drive it.

or really, how does his son even KNOW what he wants? i learned on an auto and quickly wished i'd learned on a manual, but it didnt take long once i got learning to shift. It's a skill that i think should be required to demonstrate in getting a license, plus it's empowering and focuses a new driver's attention on the act of driving rather than the act of steering.

even now, 15 years later i find myself a better, more attentive driver when i'm driving a manual car.

I think at least for a while (like up until after the driving text) an automatic might be better. After that, learning to drive a stick should be a good idea. it depends on how patient you are too, I couldn't do it until after I had my license and i could drive by myself. Now 3 cars later i have an automatic, but only because i wanted a diesel mercedes this time. I still prefer stick even driving in traffic though.

one thing i have seen a few times trying to teach a family member or especially significant other is it can be MUCH easier if you have a non-related friend (who can competently teach of course) give the instruction as the closer relation can often get emotionally frustrating, so removing that emotion simplifies everything.

I'm a self-taught manual driver. My father had a manual car, but he was useless as a teacher, so I ended up teaching myself when I bought an '82 Subaru 4WD wagon.

My current car is a '03 TDI and I'm convinced it's impossible for a manual car to be any easier to drive.

Ian F wrote: I'm a self-taught manual driver. My father had a manual car, but he was useless as a teacher, so I ended up teaching myself when I bought an '82 Subaru 4WD wagon. My current car is a '03 TDI and I'm convinced it's impossible for a manual car to be any easier to drive.

Cummins diesel pickup. You don't even need to slip the clutch. At all. Ever.

I'm a 21 year old, not that far removed from the whole new driver thing. My little brother (whom I taught to drive stick in conjunction with my dad) is 18. We learned on a 1991 318 (very similar if not identical engine and transmission).

My thoughts on driving auto vs driving manual when you are young: With a stick you are a little more likely to hoon it (but they will still hoon on the auto), but you are forced to be paying a LOT more attention. Get the stick, and don't look back. I firmly believe that it makes you a much safer driver; I know for a fact that my older brother would not have gotten in his wreck at age 16 if he were driving a stick.

WilberM3 wrote: one thing i have seen a few times trying to teach a family member or especially significant other is it can be MUCH easier if you have a non-related friend (who can competently teach of course) give the instruction as the closer relation can often get emotionally frustrating, so removing that emotion simplifies everything.

This is huge! I've taught countless friends how to drive stick, no problem. When it came to my girlfriend, my little brother was 14245434543 times better than I was at teaching her.

My first car was a stick, same for my brother. If the automotive world hasn't completely shunned manual transmissions (oh what a terrible world that would be!) then my future kids will have them as well. Also, all teenagers do stupid things with cars, either hooning or just not paying attention. At least the stick shift driver has to pay attention, and has more control.

And for the record, teenagers can eat while driving a stick, they just have to be good at it first. And teenagers certainly can eat clam chowder while driving a 5 speed Jetta back to school during a lunch break on snow and ice. They just have to be really good at it.

I learned to drive on a stick. Took my license test on a stick.

I'm still alive.

i learned to drive a manual tempo, shift, eat taco bell hard tacos all by the time I was 17.

But seriously, making a teenager drive a manual trans does two things: 1.) it makes them focus on driving because face it, you need both hands and both feet and b.) it gets them into good driving habits young.

My first was a manual, but I grew up on a farm driving farm trucks, tractors, tri-axles, etc. I drove my first dump truck when I was 5.

The sooner the better. If he doesn't already know the concept of how a clutch works, explain it to him in detail. I'm sure (if he's interested in autoX) he already knows the basics. My nephew didn't understand the basics. He had developed his clutch skills based on muscle memory, timing, and not by feel and logic. He couldn't understand why it kept stalling on hills because he was doing the same thing every time. After I explained to him how clutches work, he instantly got it. He thought that the clutch pedal just magically made the transmission move the car somehow.

Back when I sold cars, I sold a Cavalier with a manual transmission to some parents and their 16 year old daughter. She took to the clutch really well. I remember one of the techs telling her not to let the tach get above 6000 and she understood.

They called us the next day - she was stranded 250 miles away with a siezed engine. She drove the whole way to WV in second gear because it was still under 6000 so she didn't see the need to use the other gears.

Education.

I learned on a stick but took my test in an auto. Starting out with a stick, as many others have said, will force a new driver to focus on driving which is a very good thing.

Get it. My first car was a 74 Camaro with 3 speed that was harder to drive than some delivery trucks I've driven. I see four important benefits from it: 1. Made me a better driver 2. Kept me focused on driving and (at least until it became second nature) made me plan ahead for hills, stoplights, etc. I also think trying to pick the correct gear makes a new driver more conscious of their cornering speeds, which is extremely valuable 3. It kept distractions to a minimum and, last but not least, 4. I can pretty much drive anything now.

Oh, and +1 on the "have a non-family member teach them". My wife and I almost scratched each others eyes out when I was trying to teach her to drive a manual. For the record, "Are you trying to ruin the car we just bought?" = a guaranteed brawl.

learned on a friends parents '59 Simca.. 4 on the tree... our DE car was the first at our HS with an automatic... then "learned" on my parents '50 Plymouth... hardest job I've ever had while driving was pretending I didn't know how to drive a stick, so my Pop could teach me

My 1st 4 cars were manuals.

kazoospec wrote: Oh, and +1 on the "have a non-family member teach them". My wife and I almost scratched each others eyes out when I was trying to teach her to drive a manual. For the record, "Are you trying to ruin the car we just bought?" = a guaranteed brawl.

This raises a good point: They aren't going to break the car. Might wear out a few wear items quicker, but barring the car being a Jaguar Etype, they aren't going to break it.

another +1 here, about an hour of learning how to steer in an auto and then an hour learning the clutch in a parking lot = a lifetime of much greater enjoyment. as it is a somewhat rare skill for a teenager you also don't have to worry about one of his friends jumping in the car and playing a prank on your son ... nope I've never lifted a friend's keys and moved his civic behind that huge F250, and then put his keys back.

Also handy thing about manuals is the push start, make sure to teach him that.

tuna55 wrote:

Ian F wrote: I'm a self-taught manual driver. My father had a manual car, but he was useless as a teacher, so I ended up teaching myself when I bought an '82 Subaru 4WD wagon. My current car is a '03 TDI and I'm convinced it's impossible for a manual car to be any easier to drive.

Cummins diesel pickup. You don't even need to slip the clutch. At all. Ever.

True. My truck is pretty easy to drive as a stick, but at the same time, the clutch effort is very heavy. Plus, its size would make it intimidating for a newish driver. It's simply not a pleasant vehicle to drive.

Also, the nice thing about the TDI is that you do have to slip the clutch a bit, but the low end torque makes it more forgiving. I'd teach someone to drive my car by simply going from 1st through 5th w/o touching the go-pedal - using only the clutch. Then they can start adding some acceleration into the mix.

My daughter learned to drive on an automatic. She was not a very good driver- didn't pay attention or focus on the road, driving, situations, etc.

I sold the autotragic, and made her drive a stick. She hated it.

But after a short time, I noticed that she had become a really good driver.

Turns out, she is really smart, and driving the auto did not engage her brain. It enabled her to wander her eyes, talk to occupants, think about boys, whatever.

When I made her drive the stick, she had to think about her driving. She had to focus on the timing of the pedals, the position of the shifter, engine rpm's, stalling on hills, etc. She became very focused on her driving and on the car, and it made a huge difference.

She's been driving for 5 years, and loves a MT. She wouldn't have anything else (and she has both become a great driver and forgiven me).

She was in Spain this past semester, and made sure to thank me for teaching her to drive a MT. She was the only student able to drive, because all the cars were manuals.

Do everything you can to avoid letting young drivers drive autos. It makes them dumberer.

wbjones wrote: come on now.... really, how berkeleying long does it take to learn to drive a stick ?

At this point I ask myself this question regularly. I keep meeting people who can't.

In my world it was about my only choice all our cars were stick it was just the only option and it surprised me that only a few kids hung out with could drive one, and therefore only a few could actually drive my mint 1974 VW Thing. (this was 1988) I had to master alot of lite things before my parents would let me get mt license, like starting from a dead stop on what I swear was a 20degree in cline without rolling back into the car behind me.

I taught my "baby" sister on my manual VW when she was 14 and started dating a 16yo. I wanted her to be able to drive herself home if something happened and she had to drive. It took about 15mins for her to figure it out well enough to get the hang of the clutch. Her 1st car was an 1982 320i with a manual and she rocked it well.

I hope that if/when I have a child I still have the chance to teach them on a stick and provide one for them to drive. I believe it saved my hide so many times when I was young. I had to pay attention to what I was doing, not to mention if they want to do HPDE in MY TRACK CAR they are going to have to drive stick and drive it well.

Final arguement for teaching stick lets say hypothically your little angel finds themselves at a party where everyone else is E36M3 faced and he/she has to drive them home and the car in question happens to be a stick , better they be totally competent stick driver than a marginal stick driver and trying to get a car full of rowdy drunks home. (wonder where I got this example from?)

I am 22 and I have never owned anything other then a stick. Hell for that matter I can count the number of automatics I have driven on one hand.

The only autos I have owned in the last 25 years were in large tow vehicles ie 'Burbs, Expeditions and Excursions; everything else for my wife and myself have been manuals. My neice and nephew cannot drive manuals and I keep pointing out to them what they have missed but then their parents bought them Volvo's to keep them safe. My nephew wants now to drive the Lotus but I told him that he would have to learn on one of the Miata's before he would get to move up.
I cannot imagine being a parent and allowing my daughter to leave the house and not be able to drive a manual or any other car that she might encounter. I would want her to be able to get home under any circumstances.

MadScientistMatt wrote: My dad insisted I master the manual transmission in his '81 Datsun 210 (this was in the mid '90s, and the car was a total beater) before I got my license. That car had steep gears and no torque, so he let me do a bit of driving in a Caravan with an automatic to learn the other parts of driving before tackling the stick shift. His words were something along the line of "If you can learn to drive on this car, you'll be able to drive anything." I later ended up buying a car with a shot clutch and didn't realize it for several months, because even a thoroughly shot clutch in a LeBaron was easier to work than that Datsun's.

Hilarious to me because I know exactly what your talking about. My Father had a 210 where he was allowing me to help him shift (operating gear lever) and teaching me the principles of whats happening during that sequence when I was in Elementary/Middle school.

Unfortunately it died a poor death before I could reach the pedals and I learned in its replacement, a Dodge Colt so basic it had no passenger side mirror. No power anything. My mother with infinite patience and iron stomach took me to open parking lots to get the ropes. I'd later go on to pass my license in that same car.

I think that car is the reason I prefer manuals, small cars, and manual steering.

Ian F wrote: True. My truck is pretty easy to drive as a stick, but at the same time, the clutch effort is very heavy. Plus, its size would make it intimidating for a newish driver. It's simply not a pleasant vehicle to drive.

^^^^This. The effort in different clutches can make a difference. (For example, I'm used to driving stick in my Geo.....when I drove a moderately-to-heavily prepped evo, it looked like I didn't know how to drive a stick at all....the clutch felt THAT different.)

2-seater or pickup truck with manual transmission. no room for more than 1 passenger, and a vehicle that requires a higher level of attention to drive than what the other kids are driving.

oh, and absolutely the best tires and brakes you can afford.