1930 REO Speedwagon transmission problem...help me!

In reply to ShawnG :

I will try to shift with no clutch and rev match first, disconnecting the clutch brake means R&R the trans again, not the end of the world but I would like to not to.

Is there a pilot bearing?  If so, is it stuck in the crank and stuck to the input shaft?

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

I don't think there is. When we removed and reinstalled it went in and out easily, when we took it out this time we didn't touch the clutch so I don't really know what is in front of it but I think it's just the spline that angages thorough the clutch and no bearing. 

Honestly, I think this thing would operate well without the input shaft brake.

I think No Time has it right. It's actuating too soon and preventing a shift.

Those sliding gear transmissions need to be moving for everything to slide into place.

There's a trick to driving them and you pretty much have to float the gears into place even though you have the clutch disengaged. 

I doubt you'd use the input brake feature unless you were intimately familiar with that transmission from many hours of driving, AND in a really big hurry to make the gear change.

The other thing you could do is disconnect the driveshaft, like Shawn said, and try turning things from the output shaft.

- check drag in neutral when turning the output shaft to get a feel for the drag in the transmission

- Start with the engine off, the trans in gear and the clutch pedal released, try rotating the output shaft and someone slowly depresses the clutch pedal. You should be able to confirm there's a point where the clutch is released but the brake isn't activated. This should be more subtle than trying to watch with the engine running.

- when the clutch releases you can feel for any binding or inconsistent drag that may indicate a clutch or pilot bearing issue. 

- also feel for a stuttering feel when rotating things with the clutch pedal depressed. I'm not saying it's the case, but I've seen clutch disks installed with the wrong side towards the engine. That can result in contact between the hub and flywheel/flywheel bolts, not necessarily enough to prevent release, but enough drag to make sifting difficult.

This is way outside my already feeble realm of knowledge and too interesting not to follow.

Is the clutch brake intended for use when the truck is rolling?  If my sources are correct, modern trucks use it only to stop the input shaft when the truck is stationary so that a gear can be selected.  Maybe the REO is different but it seems safe to assume it's the same idea - use it to pick a gear when the truck is stopped, not when shifting between gears.  Very open to correction here.

If the above is correct, can you get the rear end up on jackstands and let the engine idle with trans in neutral?  You could try selecting low gear and doing a few mock takeoffs while someone else observes.  It might help confirm where in the pedal travel the clutch and the clutch brake are engaging and disengaging in relation to each other (it seems likely that you'd want the clutch fully disengaged before the clutch brake begins to grab).  It might also be a way to verify that the clutch is actually disengaging fully, period.

Going a different direction, how quickly does engine speed drop when you release the accelerator to shift gears?  If engine speed does not come down to match the next gear, selecting that gear might be difficult.

Here is the latest update. 

After sharing the video, pictures, and the whole saga with Fort Wayne Clutch ( https://fortwayneclutch.com/part-category/clutch-friction/antique-obsolete-clutch-kits/ ), they seem to believe that there is a problem with the pressure plate. The clutch was R&R'd before I was involved in this deal so I don't know what may have happened then, apparently it has had trouble shifting since then, although it could shift just not well. 

So we are going to pull the trans again, and the clutch and pressure plate and see what we got. I will give an update when we get under it and start pulling things apart. 

Thanks for the input and suggestions!

Wait... It's a leather cone clutch?

Jeez, I could have walked you through relining that on the phone. I've done them before, There's a couple tricks to ensure that they seat and release properly but usually, they're a breeze.

Has it been oiled? 

They can stick together bad if left to sit for a long time without the pedal being held down with a board.

In reply to ShawnG :

I don't think it's a leather clutch. That's just the home page of their vintage section. I am told that Fort Wayne clutch is very experienced and knowledgeable about the old stuff. 

In reply to NY Nick :

They are, they've got a great reputation. I'm sure they'll get it figured out.