I'm sure that it will cost a fortune, and they don't mention towing capacity, but it sounds like this could be a pretty neat ride if you don't have to blow across the country in 3 days.
https://www.motortrend.com/reviews/thor-harbinger-hybrid-electric-class-a-rv-prototype-drive-review/
I came here looking for Marvel content, it this was more interesting.
That was indeed an interesting read.
Smart move to change from the initial full EV plans to hybrid. While it will apparently still drink fuel like a certified drunk, the usage of the batteries and heat pump to replace dedicated heating systems and propane does seem like this system is a perfect fit for an RV.
Interesting read, this is the same concept as the Edison class 8 truck. It makes a lot of sense to me. My guess is RV success will revolve around initial purchase price and the class 8 truck will be more about operational expenses.
Thor has big quality control issues. Perhaps they should deal with being the worst or one of the worst rated RV's on the market before adding a bunch of complexity.
The article was obviously written by someone who doesn't know much about RVs and I'm pretty sure has never driven one.
Toyman! said:The article was obviously written by someone who doesn't know much about RVs and I'm pretty sure has never driven one.
A lot of it was cut and pasted from Thor's press release.
That's an interesting concept, if it actually works as well as described. 12mpg isn't great, but 12mpg while bring able to get out of its own way seems pretty okay. Anything that can be done to modernize the driving experience is very welcome. Honestly that chassis layout looks fairly optimal for towing. It's going to depend on rear axle capacity but compared to most RVs that have an extra 5' of rear overhang and 1500lb of water and fuel living behind the rear axle it looks pretty good. Total weight isn't super out of range for that size RV. I can't imagine it won't be *wildly* expensive though - a complete unique ground up chassis design plus the hybrid system, versus the typical mass produced UPS truck chassis is going to be a huge cost increase.
12mpg is actually really great. Considering that a typical gasser is going to get 7mpg that's basically a 70% increase in fuel efficiency. Even if you can really go easy on it and get 9mpg, you're looking at a 33% increase. A trip from here to Daytona is about 900 miles for me so that's 75 gallons of fuel instead of 100-120 which would be around $70-$120 less in gas each way. That'll add up quick.
In reply to wae :
The only problem would be the last 400 miles would be at 50 mph unless you are stopping for 15-24 hours to charge. I wonder what it can tow and how that will affect the fuel economy and range.
Without a zero-emission version, it may be too little too late for Thor. They are going to run into the CARB ACT regulations which means no sales in California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. They can't even be registered in those states. Freightliner and Spartan have pulled out of those states entirely leaving only Ford as a chassis supplier for now. Ford can use their EV sales as offsets for their gas motorhome sales.
I've briefly driven motorhomes in the past, but don't know much about them. I have been VERY impressed with the Cummins turbo I6 in my dads old dodge. We drove it with a cabover camper shell and towing a 20' trailer from San Fran to Bradenton at a pretty high rate of speed and if I recall, got an easy mid-teens MPG. So why isn't that the sort of motor that vehicles like this run? A hell of a lot simpler.
In reply to Kreb (Forum Supporter) :
The Cummins ISB 5.9 came in all sorts of motorhomes. They are great engines, just a little light on HP and Torque to move a huge heavy box. They have up to 350 hp and 750 torque.
My current MH has a Cummins ISL in it. It's 8.9L. 400 hp and 1200 lbft of torque.
The wind drag of a 12' tall 8' wide wall kills the fuel economy. I average between 7 and 8 mpg. I think the ISB did a little better.
My father's 2004 Dodge pulled a 35' 5th wheel. It would get around 10 mph.
In reply to Toyman! :
For a motorhome, the stop-to-charge argument is a little different in my mind. Unlike traveling in a car, our RV trips are usually stretched out a bit so that instead of trying to cover the 900 miles in a single sitting, stopping for fuel as infrequently as possible, we prefer to plan out a trip that involves a couple hundred miles here, a couple hundred there so that we can stop and enjoy different parks or attractions or whatever. So the idea that the best way to travel in it would be to plan to drive fewer than 500 miles a day would actually be okay. And finding a place to charge wouldn't be any different than what we already do.
Also a shocking number of RV users rarely venture more than 100 miles from home. They go to the local campground or state park every other weekend and on holidays.
In reply to dps214 :
I almost spent well-into 6 figures for a lot that I never planned to build on, but which would have been an amazing weekend parking place for a trailer or RV. Turns out there was a regulation against that very thing in the hippie-turned-techie community the lot was in.
My parents bought a very nice, brand new, "high end model" fifth wheel made by Thor. First trip out, it kept tripping the 30A campground breaker. After a couple attemps to reset, we smelled burning plastic and stopped. We drycamped off 12v for the rest of the weekend because we couldn't tear into it at the campground. When we pulled the underbelly off, one of theassembly techs had screwed a self-tapper right through the wiring 'loom' to affix the corrugated undertray.
I use 'loom' loosely, because all it was was a series of 8-10 wires, no tape or zipties or flex cable, that ran from back to front of the camper in literally the shortest way possible- diagonal across and under all of the floor stringers. No chasing through port holes, no securing it to the underside, nothing- Just a straight shot of wires from one end to the next and pulled tight.
And that is why I'll never own a Thor-built product, haha.
Toyman! said:In reply to wae :
The only problem would be the last 400 miles would be at 50 mph unless you are stopping for 15-24 hours to charge. I wonder what it can tow and how that will affect the fuel economy and range.
Without a zero-emission version, it may be too little too late for Thor. They are going to run into the CARB ACT regulations which means no sales in California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. They can't even be registered in those states. Freightliner and Spartan have pulled out of those states entirely leaving only Ford as a chassis supplier for now. Ford can use their EV sales as offsets for their gas motorhome sales.
Do you really plan to cover 900 miles in a day? That would be exhausting in anything, much less an RV. An overnight stop at a campground would get you charged back up to full for the morning. I can't handle many 900 mile days any more.
A coworker and his wife took six months off to #vanlife for a while in a Subaru-powered Vanagon. They averaged something like 200 miles a day. In the end, they didn't enjoy it all that much because of the amount of time spent driving. Longer stays and/or shorter drives would have made their trip a lot more enjoyable, and both of those would have been compatible with having to recharge.
While there are undoubtedly people who have the NEED to travel 900 miles a day in a mobile hotel room, they're not the whole market. Recharging overnight would work pretty well for a lot of uses. Even better would be a motorhome that carries enough battery to be able to camp without an annoying generator running all the time!
Of course range will drop whilst towing. It always does because you're doing more work. My Cummins gets about 18-22 mpg if I drive it without a trailer, with a 28' enclosed trailer it struggles to crack 11 on the highway. Thus range is shorter.
dculberson said:Toyman! said:In reply to wae :
The only problem would be the last 400 miles would be at 50 mph unless you are stopping for 15-24 hours to charge. I wonder what it can tow and how that will affect the fuel economy and range.
Without a zero-emission version, it may be too little too late for Thor. They are going to run into the CARB ACT regulations which means no sales in California, Oregon, Washington, New York, New Jersey, and Massachusetts. They can't even be registered in those states. Freightliner and Spartan have pulled out of those states entirely leaving only Ford as a chassis supplier for now. Ford can use their EV sales as offsets for their gas motorhome sales.
Do you really plan to cover 900 miles in a day? That would be exhausting in anything, much less an RV. An overnight stop at a campground would get you charged back up to full for the morning. I can't handle many 900 mile days any more.
For motorhome travel, very rarely do I want to do that sort of slog in one sitting. I've done it, and it's not too bad - a 75 gallon tank means I can do it in 2 stops if I start with a full tank. Any food/drink needs can be handled with the on-board kitchen, and we've got a bathroom for those that can't control their bladder.
In a car, I would always rather get in and go from empty tank to full tank for 12-16 hours at a stretch. If I'm on a roadtrip and doing fewer than 700-800 miles in a day, I'm going nucking futs.
For me, ~450 miles a day is the sweet spot. Still enough time to do something else and enjoy the trip, but not poking along so slow that progress is undetectable.
In reply to dculberson :
I generally try to do 300-400 but if I have a place to be and a schedule, I will do however many miles it takes. I did 650 in SanFord coming back from Wisconsin. That was at 50-55 mph. The current motorhome is much faster, has a range of well over 600 miles on a tank, and drives much better than a 1956 school bus. 600-900 miles would be fairly easy.
Edit to add: An overnight stop isn't going to give you a full charge with a 24-hour charge time.
Are campgrounds going to have to charge E-RV users more? Or at least have to start putting meters on sites?
If I plug my little class C into shore power, it may run my microwave and A/C while topping off the coach battery. But it is a whole other thing to be charging "an 1,848-pound battery with a total capacity of 140 kWh" like this thing has.
In reply to SEADave :
It seems like it. On the other hand, rv parks seem like an ideal ev scenario. They are already wired for 50a plugs.
When you stop to pee or to eat, does the gas engine still crank along at 4500 to recharge the battery? Is it capable of charging at the full 67hp (50kw)? If so, each 1hr stop you make will recharge the battery by like 30% which would be pretty sweet.
I'm definitely not in the market for this and dont understand large RVs. I can see large transits being needed out west. The last RV trip I did I don't think I did more than 150km in a day. My current van build I don't think I would ever want to go over 250 miles in a day and ideally would do a lot less.
IMO the sweet spot for hybrids is still something thats primarily gas and supplemented with a battery. I.E. standard Prius style. You get regenerative energy capture, hugely improved in town performance, CVT highway performance, all for extremely little complexity over a traditional powertrain. And there is never a situation where you are speed limited, range limited by battery, etc. I wonder why they didn't pursue a configuration like this.
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