$2015 Challenge entry - 88 Accord LXi

According to the latest gas tank, bypassing the IACV had exactly zero effect on fuel economy.

29+ mpg

So, between many many many house issues, I get to play "Now where did all that oil go?" again. Despite replacing the crush washer, (or... "placing" it, since it was missing) I am still losing oil. Somewhere.

Is it hitting the ground?

In reply to Dusterbd13:

Not that I can see!

Well....

What do the plugs look like?

And does this mean that the house from hell is on the downward spiral towards complete?

Dusterbd13 wrote: Well.... What do the plugs look like? And does this mean that the house from hell is on the downward spiral towards complete?

Not necessarily. It means I ran out of oil driving down the road.

The house still needs some stuff.

PVC system? How much oil we talkin' here, over how many miles?

I am with Mr Clearinghouse. You building pressure in the block? Put a catch can in the PCV loop and see what ends up in there?

Was trying to mentally picture what cats and O2 sensors do with burnt or un-burnt oil that tries to sneak out the tailpipe. Would you get a lean condition due to the O2 reporting hydrocarbons and no smoke due to the cats. (up to the point they die)Would your fuel mileage gone up as you drive a semi-diesel?

I have barely had time to even pop the hood. I think PCV as well. It's gone through three quarts in a thousand miles. It's a lot.

Thickening plot alert:

I popped the hood today. I am unable to to that most days, but working from home means that my lunch hour was within fifty feet of the car, so I could not resist the draw.

The bit you're seeing there from the valve cover to the intake is valve-less. Honda didn't put a valve in that line either. The PCV part is somewhere else, near the split between the intake and head, and it all appears fine, though I didn't actually remove any of it. Perhaps adding a PCV valve in here would help though. As I recall the elbow going into the grommet is from some Dodge or something. I am pretty sure I can get a valve of the right size easily enough.

So while I was there I checked to make sure the 3 quarts I added were still there (they were) and then tried to check out the rest briefly.

I was a bit low on coolant, so I added a few quarts of water. It was about this time I remembered that the AICV has coolant lines running to it. Out of silliness, I tried plugging it back in (it has been unplugged, causing lower-than-desired-idle with the A/C on and a CEL) and it started up and actually worked. So apparently the coolant level needs to be very high for it to work properly. I don't ever remember topping off the coolant after putting this pig back together, so I am not yet ready to condemn some part to losing coolant.

Or rather, I wasn't. It started acting goofy on the return trip from Home Depot, and now I have to figure out if I have an issue or if I don't understand how the cooling system is supposed to work.

EDIT: I just checked. I have been home for 45 minutes on a very hot day and there was no pressure on the cooling system, but the coolant was full. I wonder if my radiator cap is not working...

EDIT part deaux: I just realized that I hadn't checked the coolant reservoir. It was empty. And plugged with an earplug. Yes. I suppose it's a plug, but it's not exactly what was designed to go there. Now to find a cap for the reservoir.

Also I stole the radiator cap from Tunatruck for a trial.

So the IACV is still acting wonky.

It was a light night last night again, all I did was to build a shelf unit to hold bins under the kids workbench, pull the wheels off the minivan to hunt for the mysterious handling issue that Tunawife tried to describe to me, build a rack to hold sheets against the wall, get the garbage ready for dump day, touch up ceiling paint in the bathroom, and a few other little things and went to bed at a nice early 1AM.

Soon I'll just pull it off and look at it. You know, when I have time.

So this happened.

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No starters in stock, but the JY has one. I really only want the casting anyway...

When I started the car to go home on Tuesday, it went "crank, grind, crank, grind, vroom" and I thought in my sleepiness that I had blipped the key on and off. I headed to O'reilly's and bought a new PCV valve ($2.11 added to the budget), went to the car to leave and "ziiiiiiiiiiing" went the starter. No amount of rocking or prodding could make it go. I gave it a push start and headed home.

When I got home and popped the hood, I noticed that the starter wasn't actually attached to the car anymore. The lower/rear bolt on these cars is super annoying to get to, and the guy before me either left the bolt out or left it so loose that it walked out. What happened is the upper/front bolt held on as long as it could, but eventually broke the nosecone piece, and then it just popped out of the block. It's weird, because I really like OEM starters on most brands, and Honda is no exception, and this was an OEM starter. Maybe they pulled it out when they did the clutch or something.

Anyway, here is the side by side:

Since I am a bit different, the first thing I did was to take them both apart:

I noticed that the movement of the bearings and such in the OEM starter were far better, as expected, so I swapped just the aluminum nosecone:

And they will get theirs back as a core today.

I forgot to mention that I did change the PCV valve. It was $2.11. My understanding is that I do not count the starter in the Challenge budget because it failed and was replaced in kind, so $64.99 goes into the real budget only and the $2.11 goes into both.

New budget:

$1235.84

New "real" (including tools and drinks and such) budget

$1440.81

I also jacked up the car, found that the air filter had come apart, glued it back together (weird!), and found that the drain pipe going to the oil pan didn't have tight hose clamps. I tightened them, and may replace them with the screw type, but I added some zip ties for now for some added protection. Let's see if that oil stays in there now!

The oil does not stay in there.

GRRR. I have not kept adequate track of it, but lets say the usage is "quart per hundreds of miles".

I have so far added a PCV valve allowing only air into the valve cover which is not stock.

Honda has a PCV valve allowing air only out of the block.

Both valves are new. I can detect no oil going through either one by running the line through a tissue at varying RPM.

Putting a glove over the valve cover fill hole doesn't show excess blow by.

I checked my pictures and I indeed remembered to install new oil control rings on my new pistons. Now I get that I didn't bore the block, but since I saw the OEM cross hatches, I was hoping for a quart per oil change interval at the most.

I don't see any puddles beneath the car nor on the driveway.

I replaced the valve seals when I rebuilt the motor.

I guess I'm doing another compression test.

tuna55 wrote: The oil does not stay in there.

boo

tuna55 wrote: I checked my pictures and I indeed remembered to install new oil control rings on my new pistons.

YAY!

tuna55 wrote: I guess I'm doing another compression test.

boo

I cant help, I am not very experienced with Honda, but Im glad to see updates!

The real bad news is that my kid-carrying duties have expanded a lot, and this car is totally unequipped toc arry four kids in any sort of ease.

I'll sell you a 1978 Ford LTD for $500....

You could fit all the kids in that. And your wife.

In reply to volvoclearinghouse:

And your neighborhood.

The plugs were dry, and the compression was great.

I rolled up paper towels and stuffed them into the chambers, and filled the oil fast. I ended up having to put the valve cover back on because of massive spillage, but all of the towels were dry.

Looking at those plugs, and knowing your last oil consumption measurement showed you were essentially running a 2 stroke engine at a mixture rate of 13:1, I have to say that the oil must be leaking out somewhere. Since you don't show any oil on the ground under the car, it must be an active leak that's only leaking when the engine is running. And possibly, only under load, if you can let the engine idle in your driveway and not notice any leaks.

Did you ever verify that oil wasn't leaking into the gearbox somehow? Could the gearbox be filling and then the oil dumping out some sort of vent or overflow?

It's coming out the front when running.

It is not the crankshaft seal. I tried that.

It was not the oil pan gasket. I tried that and only created an additional leak at the other end, that I later fixed.

We will see later this evening of it was the oil pump gasket.

DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP DRIP

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FKbwFWTJLBU

So that drip is fixed (it was the oil pump) but in chasing it I pulled the pan and created another leak at the other end of the pan.

So, to keep track, I first pulled the crank seal. This means pulling off the accessories and the timing belt and then sliding it off, except it wouldn't slide off, so a combination of propane and a trip to the hardware store for a big set of Channel Lock pliers and a few hours of confusion.

Then I tried the oil pan, which means additionally pulling off the exhaust, the three transmission brackets, the dust shield and some other junk.

Then after all that, it was the oil pump gasket, which was absolutely the easiest of all of these things to change.

None of this was bad until I drove it for a few thousand miles, so none of it is hitting the official budget, but I'll add about $40 to the real budget.

New budget:

$1235.84

New "real" (including tools and drinks and such) budget

$1480.81