Back to Brit Stuff..MGB .GT Comes Home

The GT has been sitting in the barn for a year not getting so much as a glance this year.  Time to drag it home and give it some love over the winter. The goal would be to have it in reliable driving condition by spring so that I can sell it or fall in love with it again.

It actually fired up, but the brake fluid seems to have gone somewhere unknown, so it came home on the hook. Good thing I have a friend with a tow truck!

Quick wash to get the "Barn Find" patina off the paint and safely tucked into the corner of the shop. Nothing will happen right away as I have a customer MGB rolling in tomorrow for sills. If anyone is interested, I can post pics of what all that entails.

Pete

We're always interested in your tomfoolery, Sir! 

NOHOME said:

Nothing will happen right away as I have a customer MGB rolling in tomorrow for sills. If anyone is interested, I can post pics of what all that entails.

 

Pete

Of course we want to see that. 

So here is what arrived today

I have done a few cars for this client and in fact this car is a repeat offender in that the floors were done by me a few years back. Now it is back for sills and rear quarter panel work.  The inner sills are nice and solid on this car.

Overall, the sills are not a disaster. Being an Oklahoma car it is not as bad as some I have seen.

PS front sill

PS rear arch

PS dogleg 

DS front sill

DS rear dogleg

As a technique for doing an undetectable repair, I hope to do what I call a "Rockerectomy" rather than a full sill replacement. This entails a long horizontal cut along the length of the sill. If I open up the sill and it all looks good, I will then slice the new sill to match and graft it on with a long butt-weld.

This is pretty much exactly the repair I hope to do as seen on a previous customer car.

Goal is to have this out by early December, stand by!

Pete

I'm here actually because I was looking for the Molvo thread because I noticed you mentioned a thing I'd been thinking a lot about the Camaro V6. Better yet to find the GT's gotten its own thread!

In reply to Ransom :

What are you scheming with a Camaro V6?

Pete

That sill-ectomy is pretty slick.  Provided the inner and the top part of the outer  are in good nick it saves tying in / disturbing the "A" and "B" pillar bottoms as well as the floor for the inner.  But what about the center membrane?  It is sandwiched between the two if memory serves.  I'm guessing this is just the castle rail and a portion of the outer sill? 

I did the whole magilla, inner, outer center and bottom (castle rail) of the sills plus the floors, outer cross members, bottom of the fenders and quarter panels learning to MIG weld back in 1996 or so. Started by rebuilding stock 1800 going .060 over, 45 DCOE side draft webber, high compression head set up for unleaded and full mechanical advance.  Later it ended up with a  3.4 liiter fuel injected V6 from a 93 Slowmaro with a T5.  The dip switch on the column for the Laycock overdrive in 3rd and 4th was really neat.

I've seen one resto where a guy made reinforcement gussets, like the inner jacking point gusset, but with a dimpled hole to run a wiring conduit the length of the sill and used it for a wiring conduit.  Seemed to me like a solution in search of a problem, but he wanted to keep things very tidy.

Thanks for sharing.  Those are great little cars.

Quick sketch of how the MGB sill assembly goes together.

I wish I fit in those car. I'm reasonably sure if I ever got in one, they would have to cut me out of it. 

In reply to Toyman01 :

MGBs have very large driver space. Try one. Much larger than a Miata or Spitfire. GT even has head room.

Obviously, I'll be tuned in.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

I've tried. At 6'2 and 300 pounds it's too tight. It's like wearing a pair of pants that are two sizes too small. 

when i hear "membrane" i think flexible material, generally some kind of rubber.  i'm assuming that is not accurate here?

Co-worker of mine bought an MGB-GT brand new in '69, and still has it.  He has zero mechanical knowledge of the car, and has been limping it along via various, increasingly hard-to-find mechanics.  I gave him the old "if you ever want to sell it...."  

I'd offer to help him with it, but he lives a couple of hours from me and I kindof have my own projects that need tending.  

AngryCorvair said:

when i hear "membrane" i think flexible material, generally some kind of rubber.  i'm assuming that is not accurate here?

Nope. It is an embosses ( for rigidity) flat piece of 16 gauge sheet-metal. See purple bit in the middle. Its role is to create a box section ( actually two box sections). The two box sections make for a very solid sill structure.

In the picture below, what you are seeing along the sill is the membrane with the outer sill removed. In many northern cars the bottom of the membrane where it attaches to the pinchweld is rusted out. It CAN be repaired by grafting in a piece from a new membrane panel, but the panel has to be original BMH or the embossing wont match.

20+ years ago at 6' 4" 220 lbs 36" inseam, I fit in a 1972 BGT with room to spare.  THE MOST legroom of any car ever, even better than a 924s/944.

I'm not sure if I would still be comfy at 245lbs., having discovered the unconditional love that is beer, but I would love to suck weight  and add one to the project list, or a Mark II Jag resto mod.    Nor Cal if anyone has a basket case.

NOHOME said:

In reply to Ransom :

What are you scheming with a Camaro V6?

Nothing much more specific than your mention of its existence and appropriateness. I haven't gotten to taking dimensions. Seems like a lot of V8s get very tight at front pulley/rack/front sway bar area, and something a cylinder shorter fore/aft would be good, and while there are plenty of V6-swapped MGBs, engines have come a long way. Thanks to modern "magic" the LFX is, what, 315hp stock, modern flat torque curve, aluminum block... If it fits, it seems like a great option. If it doesn't (big OHC heads), the LV3 4.3 (to some extent 75% of an LS, admittedly with less aftermarket support) seems like an interesting and probably (possibly?) more compact option.

I think while the MGB is better suited to a bunch of power than a lot of its contemporaries (I'm really impressed at how solid the GT feels), I can't help but think that replacing the whole subframe to help fit the new engine and allow modernization of the suspension and ease brake upgrades is the way to go, so the front pulley/rack/bar intersection isn't necessarily as big a deal.

I think while the MGB is better suited to a bunch of power than a lot of its contemporaries (I'm really impressed at how solid the GT feels), I can't help but think that replacing the whole subframe to help fit the new engine and allow modernization of the suspension and ease brake upgrades is the way to go, so the front pulley/rack/bar intersection isn't necessarily as big a deal.

This is exactly what I'm thinking about for my next project, build a new front crossmember/subframe for a BGT and insert a Duratec V6 mated to a Mazda gearbox and Miata based front suspension.  Though if it happens I'll probably do something a bit odd and build a de Dion rear end for it.  This all provided I can find a decent B GT and sell the Europa.

The Miata front track is 7" wider than the Miata. I have a feeling that making it narrower will come with some compromises.

The pinnacle of MGB front suspension would be the Fastcars system sold as hub-hub. For a bunch of $$$

I have the CCC rear 4 link on the GT and like it a lot; transformed the ride in the GT.

NOHOME said:

The Miata front track is 7" wider than the Miata. I have a feeling that making it narrower will come with some compromises.

 

The pinnacle of MGB front suspension would be the Fastcars system sold as hub-hub. For a bunch of $$$

 

 

I have the CCC rear 4 link on the GT and like it a lot; transformed the ride in the GT.

 

 

That is the 'B' diff in this application, and what does FastCars want for that setup???

In reply to 759NRNG :

Like $5k last time I checked. In its defense, it is complete hub-to-hub  with brakes, steering  and everything needed to make it a simple bolt-on affair.

Pete

Interesting that the Fastcars front suspension includes the subframe, but makes no mention of accommodating engine swaps.

https://www.fastcarsinc.com/product/front-end-kit-standard/

Let us know if we're getting too far off topic for this MGB!

In reply to Ransom :

Not a problem The Green GT is currently without a purpose in life and since my rule is one toy car to drive and one long term project in the shop, I need something to fill the project slot. I don't have a vision for the GT, and carving it up after 40 years of schlepping it around the planet is not all that appealing, but if an idea should float in over the wall, WTF, I am in.

Ted's front end can be ordered with Buick/Rover mounts or Ford mounts. It clears the oil pan on both applications.

Toyman01 said:

I wish I fit in those car. I'm reasonably sure if I ever got in one, they would have to cut me out of it.

You want an Volvo 1800, then. Unless you are disproportionally more torso than legs, the 1800 fits taller folks fairly well.  I've known a number of owners well over 6 foot tall. 

The MGB sill construction is quite similar to the 1800 sill construction. 

I wonder if Fastcars would ever do a Volvo 1800 front sub-frame.  Not a whole lot different than the MGB.  A few years ago, there was a guy who attempted to sell a V8 conversion sub-frame, but the geometry looked a bit wonky and he developed a bad reputation for accepting orders (and $$$$) and then not delivering. Fastcars seems to be a bit more reputable. 

Keith Tanner of Flyin Miata fame documented the trials and tribulations of a Miata front suspension, DIY 4 link rear and LS transplant in his 72 BGT here:  http://www.slowcarfast.com/MG/

Then there is Bill Guzman, an enthusiast turned conversion specialist at http://www.classicconversionseng.com/about-us

Hoyle in the UK does a rear IRS bolt in using Ford Sierra parts aka Merkur XRT4Ti  http://www.hoyle-suspension.co.uk/Pages/Independent%20Rear%20Suspension.html

Who did I miss?