Big engine, meet little car

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Any idea what the ND engine & trans combo weighs vs either the NA 1.6 or 1.8? It seems in theory like it could be the perfect drivetrain for an early car, if not a very practical or cost effective swap. 

OHSCrifle said:

Keith Tanner said: This car is going Hawaii when we're done, so we've decided to call it Humuhumunukunukuapua'a after the state fish of Hawaii. No, don't ask us to pronounce it.

...one more of life's mysteries solved on GRM

Pretty sure that would make for a killer paint job. 

bluej said:

I find the thought of the ND drivetrain in something old and light to be interesting. If you could pick whatever chassis, what would you put it in, Keith?

I would think there has to be some way to get the engine/trans/diff to work in a LoCost...  

Hmmm, skyactiv exocet?

I think the issue is that there are no engine management systems for the skyactive engine available currently on the market

In reply to dherr :

Is there something about the engine that would prevent MegaSquirt from working?

Direct injection. They're a different breed. The OEMs are a long way ahead of the aftermarket ECUs these days. I mean, you could jack around enough stuff to get it to run but you'd have to abandon a lot of what makes it modern.

Engine with all accessories, flywheel/clutch, a full sump of oil and the engine wiring harness is 290 lbs. I don't have that same measurement for the BP because honestly it's not really something we can affect.

It would be fun to put this rollerskate under a 1990 Miata. I haven't checked any dimensions yet to see how plausible that is, but that would be my first choice and it certainly is something I've considered. Getting that engine to run happily would be a challenge. You would not believe how pissed the entire car is that the steering rack is gone. The ND is not a car with an engine in it, it's a complete platform. The transmission talks to the power top, the steering rack talks to the tire pressure monitoring system. Amputate one part and you've got problems all over the place.

I'm going to warn you that I'll be offline for a week starting tomorrow, so this build thread will take a pause at that point. I'll post up what happens today but then you'll all get a chance to breathe.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

Yeah the CAN system is interesting as to how everything talks. However it can also be programed to not expect to talk to things also was my understanding. IE the car can be told that steering rack is no longer there, it takes a lot of doing and code writing but it can be done.

It's not like you log in and select a check box. There are a bunch of systems that rely on input from the steering rack in order to function. The lane departure system. The stability control. The ABS. The tire pressure monitoring system. The headlights. If you simply remove the messages from the steering rack, every one of these systems will go down. What you have to do is simulate the rack and simulate it accurately enough to keep those other components happy. This means not just the "hey, I'm here and everything is okay!" message, but the steering angle and steering wheel torque messages. Probably others.

Alternately, you can replace all these modules with ones that don't use the steering rack messages. You can't reprogram them, so you would have to recreate them from scratch or get Mazda to cook you up some custom ones.

And these messages are not documented. You have to reverse engineer them. You can get a bunch of them from simply putting a rack on the bench, powering it up and then reading what it broadcasts. But not everything.

The CAN system is simply the protocol by which everything talks to another. It's like the TCP/IP standard, it defines the communication but not the content.

We got our first ND V8 up and running in about 9 months. We then spent about two years working on the CAN programming.

Great stuff, thanks for sharing!

The software stuff is fascinating (and why we attracted the interest of Hot Rod Magazine with these cars), but it doesn't make for cool pictures. So let's look at a few more of those.

With the subframes finished, it's time to paint them.
We also painted this new undercar brace, dubbed the "spider brace". It replaces some weedy sheet steel bracing and supports the back of the T56 Magnum transmission. It's also shaped to work around the catalytic converters on the exhaust.
It's been coated with Lizard Skin before being painted because we find that gives better protection against rock chips.

Fun fact for GRM: we had been trying to develop this brace in the digital realm, but it was giving our mouse jockey heartburn. I went out to the shop and did some proper Cardboard Aided Design with a box for brake pads and a roll off 1" masking tape in proper Project Binky style.

We're going to look at the clutch pedal assembly in detail for a bit.
The new master has been mounted with a very cool bayonet mount billet adapter. We changed the master so we'd have the amount of pedal movement for the new V8 clutch.
This could also be used to cut down on pedal travel with a four cylinder - we've had a couple of inquiries about that.

We're not done with the clutch pedal assembly.
The stock master cylinder provides the travel limit for the pedal, but we didn't want to do that with the Wilwood master. This clutch switch bracket isn't strong enough to do the job, so we weld on a brace and add an adjustable stop as well. it's all been painted black here.

On the pedal itself, we had to go from a plastic pushrod to an adjustable steel rod that has a rod end on it.
The plastic clip used by Mazda wouldn't do, so we substitute a bolt with these custom-cut backing plates instead.

Here's the whole reason for all this work.
Crate engines do literally come in crates. This is an EROD crate so it has the standard production cam that gives 430 hp and excellent street manners. It also has improved emissions monitoring, which makes it easier to register in some states.
We have more work to do before it comes in, but you can see how compactly it's packaged. This is why you see LS engines swapped in all over the place, they're physically very small.

Great work to all at FM!

Man you guys have too much out there in Colorado!

Hey guys, I'm back! A week up at the cottage where the hottest thing I drove was an aluminum Princecraft with a 20 hp motor and I was completely disconnected from the internet. Don't take this the wrong way, but I'd be back there right now if I could.

But I can't, so let's satisfy ourselves with seeing what Kyle got done when I was gone.

The transmission is a T56 Magnum.
That's an upgraded T56 with better synchros and a higher power level - very similar to the T6060. We have them assembled in the most compact housing available to make sure the shifter is in the correct location and to fit in that tiny tunnel.
We use a stock GM shifter because we've been happiest with them. The short shift level is a custom piece that retains a very short throw and looks like the stock Miata part when it's installed.
The solenoid with the fuschia B on it is the reverse lockout. It's common to simply replace that with a spring in swaps, but then you end up with the possibility to still hit reverse or difficulty in finding the narrow 5-6 gate. We have some custom programming in our CAN hardware that duplicates the standard GM programming - reverse is freely available until you reach 5 mph, then it's locked out.
You can also see the bracket for the rear transmission support. It has an integrated heatshield to protect the mount from the high exhaust temperatures created by tight packaging.

There's the diff in the modified rear subframe. I've already talked about that, but I'm happy to answer questions.

The engine is installed on the subframe.
Yes, we did skip ahead a little here. You can see that we've installed our bespoke oil pan, bolted on a set of our custom ND V8 headers with Swain ceramic coating and wired up the engine. That's a stock flywheel on there, as we find that gives the best driveability.

Here's the sort of thing you have to solve on a swap.
There's no room for the stock washer bottle with everything else we're stuffing in the car, so we had to find something else that fit in the space available, had appropriate mounting points and had an accessible filler. We found what we were looking for in the Honda catalog. It's quite likely nobody will ever realize what we've done, which means we did it well.

Before the engine actually goes in the car, we have to prep the engine bay.
You can see a couple of changes here - the heat shielding on the fuel lines and a custom u-joint to mate the Miata steering column to the new rack.

Okay, not too exciting.

This panel goes on the firewall to hide a cavity back there along with some wiring. It also gives us a chance to brag a bit. It's color-matched to the car.
In case you're wondering, a habu is a small venomous snake from Japan. It was also the nickname of the SR71 Blackbird, one of the fastest planes to ever make a sonic boom. So you can see why we use the name.

GRM note: we added this panel after every single person at the Daytona 24 helpfully pointed out that we could have put the engine further back. Well, no, but it got old

To prepare the car for this level of performance, we're upgrading the brakes.
It's being fitted with our Big Mama Jama Stage 2 - that's upgraded calipers all the way around and nearly 13" of front caliper diameter. This is a proven setup that's never let us down and has proven to be up to the task.
Remember, the load on your brakes goes up with the weight of the car - but more importantly it goes up with the square of the speed. Our light, fast car needs more brake capability than a slow, heavy one would.

Naturally, we're giving the car proper suspension.
This is our exclusive Fox Racing suspension with a custom set of springs for the V8. If those shocks look long, they should. There's a ridiculous amount of shaft travel front and rear - nearly 8" on the rear. We actually have to limit it in order to keep the big tires from making contact with the chassis.
One of the big reasons we like to work with Fox is that they share the philosophy that suspensions work best when you let them move. Mazda agrees.

Okay, we're caught up. In fact, we've outstripped some of the parts supply. The clutch disc was damaged when some transmission fluid got spilled (oops) so we can't mate the engine and trans until they show, and we're waiting for the halfshafts. But let's see what happens tomorrow...

Basically just a modern day 427 Cobra

Yeah, but with better handling and brakes and cooling  Seriously, we did a magazine test with a Cobra (a "real" one from Shelby, not a replica from someone who isn't Shelby) and we had to leave it by the side of the road as it overheated while cruising around at 40 mph.

That part got left out of the article.

But seriously, it's not a new recipe. Cobra, Tiger, TVR - big engine into little car is classic because it works. You never have to explain "why", people understand.

Toyman01 said:

OHSCrifle said:

Keith Tanner said: This car is going Hawaii when we're done, so we've decided to call it Humuhumunukunukuapua'a after the state fish of Hawaii. No, don't ask us to pronounce it.

...one more of life's mysteries solved on GRM

Pretty sure that would make for a killer paint job. 

Love the Picasso Trigger Fish Theme!  Very cool creatures that can turn a coral reef into sand in seconds flat with crazy teeth and jaws.

OHSCrifle said:

Keith Tanner said: This car is going Hawaii when we're done, so we've decided to call it Humuhumunukunukuapua'a after the state fish of Hawaii. No, don't ask us to pronounce it.

...one more of life's mysteries solved on GRM

Don't forget to pronounce the apostrophe. You kind of do a complete stop with your throat so it's clearly two a's.

In reply to Keith Tanner :

The diff looks remarkably compact, particularly the width.

You mentioned a Camaro donor, Any specifics on model? I assume it's perhaps used on some other GM cars?

(I'm betting it could be fitted into a Spitfire/GT6 with minimal surgery, replacing the spun glass Triumph diff)

That's actually a G8 diff. Previous builds have used an almost-identical 5th-gen Camaro diff.

Kyle did a bunch of detail work today, but none of it is photogenic. Wiring is like that.