I will dig up some photos of the Ferraris that I have had through my bay here. Appalling welds that look like those lambo welds but done by a guy with a stick welder and no helmet, and beautiful metal finished stuff right next to each other 
I will dig up some photos of the Ferraris that I have had through my bay here. Appalling welds that look like those lambo welds but done by a guy with a stick welder and no helmet, and beautiful metal finished stuff right next to each other
Adrian_Thompson wrote: 920lbs for the engine, gearbox assembly!! Holy crap that's heavy!
The Cummins in my Dodge is about 1100 lbs - without the trans 
The welds might not be works of art, but are they serviceable? Lamborghini at the time wasn't making million dollar works of art, they were actually struggling pretty hard and so turning out product was more important than how the frame might look in 25 years when it was stripped of paint. I can't see the majority of the pictures in the thread so I can't judge, but I do know that you can't tell everything from a weld by looking at it.
A Countach dropped in at our Summer Camp a few years back. It was mobbed by all the guys who used to have the Alpine picture on their walls as kids. None of the women. Which may not have been the goal.
Keith Tanner wrote:Adrian_Thompson wrote: 920lbs for the engine, gearbox assembly!! Holy crap that's heavy!The Cummins in my Dodge is about 1100 lbs - without the trans
but that's a cummins. What does an LSx plus Corvette transaxle weigh? Or incomparison the Jag V12 is known as a porker for an alloy block, but what does it weigh. 900+ lb;s for the engine and trans seems to me a lot, but I'm open to examples to disprove me.
What do you expect from a company that built tractors before cars?
I was fortunate enough to have one friend with a Testarossa and one with a Countach back when they were new. I found the Countach to be an expensive turd you couldn't see out of and couldn't be comfortable in and the 'Rossa I would be willing to ride in or drive across the country(if the transmission lasted). Ask me about the 8000 mile synchro replacement in the 'Rossa after being driven by one of the most mechanically sympathetic drivers I've ever known. It was driven hard, but smooth.
Surprised to see the welds also. These aren't beads, it's eleventybillion tacks. Tack, tack, tack, tack, tack.
Adrian_Thompson wrote:Keith Tanner wrote:but that's a cummins. What does an LSx plus Corvette transaxle weigh? Or incomparison the Jag V12 is known as a porker for an alloy block, but what does it weigh. 900+ lb;s for the engine and trans seems to me a lot, but I'm open to examples to disprove me.Adrian_Thompson wrote: 920lbs for the engine, gearbox assembly!! Holy crap that's heavy!The Cummins in my Dodge is about 1100 lbs - without the trans
I don't have solid numbers - but for the first, I'd expect the LSx and T56 to be about 600 lbs. of course, a V12 is going to be heavier, and we are talking about a mill designed when, late 60's? Hopefully we're better at making them light now.
Swank Force One wrote: Zinc plating is actually pretty cheap, so that part didn't surprise me. The clutch disc does and doesn't surprise me. I bet it's not cheap. But on the other hand, isn't lamborghini the ones famous for making cars that need a clutch replacement every 10k miles? Just in case others want to see the welds we're talking about without having the time to wade through the thread. Here's the one that really caught my eye.
disclaimer … I am NOT a welder (took an extension class) .. and my welds aren't any worse than those 
Woody wrote: *Wheeler Dealers* did a Lambo Urraco and a replacement clutch cost them GBP 2500. They had no option but to get it directly from Lamborghini. They did resurface the flywheel.
Its just friction material. I will have to pull it up that episode but yeah 200$ or so US for the clutch to be refurbished.
The pressure plate and all the rest including the flywheel assembly which they replaced could absolutely could be almost 4000 US in a Countach.
This thread is a bit like being told that Natali Portman has permanent PMS and doesn't like sex! talk about shattering my illusions
EastCoastMojo wrote:Swank Force One wrote: The original craftsmanship on this car looks to be impressively terrible.I was thinking, man those are some crappy looking welds for a berkeleying Lamborghini.
Like every child of the 80's I had the Countach posters in my room. Fast forward a few decades and I actually ran across one on a used car lot a few years ago. Crawling all over that car, I decided that it had, at best, the build quality of a E36 M3ty kit car.
In defence of these things the body is a work of art. Whenever I've seen one I'm blown away by the perfect tiny panel gaps and crisp straight edges for what are essentially hand made panels. The level of workmanship on the bodies is exceptional.
Not impressed. The sandblast the rusty, beyond pitted parts and re-coat make them look horrible IMO.
They seem REALLY proud of that build, but it just seems like something I can do in my garage. From the countless other online build threads I've seen online, this one is meh. Anyone can take high quality photos of a restoration and make a good presentation. I'm more impressed by the photos/documentation than the actual work being done.
bigdaddylee82 wrote: Surprised to see the welds also. These aren't beads, it's eleventybillion tacks. Tack, tack, tack, tack, tack.
I believe this is actually a repair done by the shop, not an actual Lambo weld.
That doesn't really make it much better, i suppose. But this DOES look better than the Lambo welds.
Crapy build quality or not as a child of the 80's if I am ever in the position to be able to afford one I will have one.
bigdaddylee82 wrote: Surprised to see the welds also. These aren't beads, it's eleventybillion tacks. Tack, tack, tack, tack, tack.
Those MIG tacks are on a sheet-metal butt-weld. And that is pretty much how you do it. If done right, the backside should look pretty much identical. The fact that they are more flat than hemispherical tells me they are doing it right.
While I can't fault what they are doing, I tend to overlap just a C-hair more than they are averaging.
Never would have guessed it was like that underneath from the outside pictures. Needs a valve job at 6K? As far as not replacing the clutch, how many miles do you think this car will see in the next 10 years? I bet 2k or less.
In reply to NOHOME:
Non structural on sheet metal, maybe, but the tack, tack, tack, of a MIG is a series of cold welds, no es bueno.
In reply to bigdaddylee82:
HAZ looks ok, maybe could have directed more heat into the tube, but considering the E36 M3 factory welds on the tubing, I'd call it more than adequate. However, I am not a welder, nor do I play one on TV.
bigdaddylee82 wrote: In reply to NOHOME: Non structural on sheet metal, maybe, but the tack, tack, tack, of a MIG is a series of cold welds, no es bueno. - Lee
Lee:
Have you done much sheet-metal welding with a MIG welder? How is that a cold weld?
If the backside of the bead looks the same as the front-side, then you have full penetration. Right? What else are you looking for in a structural sheet-metal weld? It's not like you are going to run a long bead along the seam unless your are using a TIG or OXY rig where you can control the heat.
Do please correct me if my thinking is wrong because I have been doing body work like this for a while now and am always willing to learn from those who know better.
Pete
In reply to NOHOME:
I'm not a pro, I'm going on 5 years since being in the fabrication business, and when I was in the "bizz" I was the nerd doing the computer drafting and running the CNC equipment. I spent a lot of time with folks that were absolute artists with a welder, learned a lot from them, but actually being able to apply it myself is a different story.
That image of all of the tacks doesn't show enough to say anything for certain, I haven't a clue how thick the metal is, what if anything is behind it, or if it's sticking to anything other than that tube. Just like you said, the backside would tell you for sure what you want to know. Cold weld being no/little penetration, or the tack only being only on the surface. On the vertical seam that appears to be a butt of two pieces of sheet metal where it's just holding that piece in place, probably not a real issue. Along the bottom, horizontal, where it's tack, tack, tacked to the tubing, penetration of the weld to the tubing is highly suspect due to the tiny amount of the heat affected zone. Short beads, skipping around to minimize warping would be the "proper" way. Though I've seen the can of worms argument between body guys and fabricators go on and on and on and...
I took all the Ag mech classes in high school, college metals & welding, am a farm kid that learned on grandpa's old Lincoln Tombstone before he got a MM 252, and have a MM 211 of my own, I can booger weld/burn through stuff with the best of them. 
wbjones wrote:Swank Force One wrote: Zinc plating is actually pretty cheap, so that part didn't surprise me. The clutch disc does and doesn't surprise me. I bet it's not cheap. But on the other hand, isn't lamborghini the ones famous for making cars that need a clutch replacement every 10k miles? Just in case others want to see the welds we're talking about without having the time to wade through the thread. Here's the one that really caught my eye.disclaimer … I am NOT a welder (took an extension class) .. and my welds aren't any worse than those
Those crappy welds blinded me to how bad the bend in that tube is! WOW! If I spent that kind of cash and then saw this I would be many disappoint.
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