Loosecannon's 1967 Camaro RS build

In reply to nocones :

Hard to ignore all the engineering that goes into the C6 suspension but things like track width, suspension attachment points and engine location can cause immense headaches and ultimately compromise what I am after.

In reply to NOT A TA :

some people think "tri ax" is an installation suggestion

In for this build sir.  I've been watching a 69 convertible pace car for Mrs84FSP for a bit and just need to arrange garage space.

loosecannon said:

rustomatic said:

Just putting this here:  Corvette (suspension) parts, all of them.  You'll thank someone who says this later.

I think Corvette suspension is a great option for a great street car but to make a top level street car that can win a Goodguys event or SCCA Solo Nationals event, I think it takes a suspension designed specifically for a Camaro's  weight, width and wheelbase.  Having said that, several of the complete suspensions that I am looking do use the C7 Corvette uprights on the front end. I am looking at the Chris Alston Chassisworks, Speedtech, TCI, Speedway Motors and RSRT complete suspension packages. I am weighing the different options.

Indeed, there are some nice "bolt-on" setups out there.  Plenty of events have been won or highly scored on Speedtech and TCI stuff.  It's all a matter of how much cutting and finagling you wish to do.  When you look at the cost of a C5/6 subframe with all relevant suspension and braking components (and excellent factory geometry/weight/materials), the performance per dollar versus "bolt-on" flies out the window.  You also get the benefit of actual bushings that are quiet and comfy vs. the many heims you are likely to get with "bolt-on" (except for a high-dollar DSE kit).  Square 18x11" setups bolt right on the C5/C6 stuff. 

That said, I get the idea of wanting the bolt-on brawler after your other major project of fabricating everything.  IRS+LS in an American '60's bomb just works, though . . .

Interested to see where this goes! 

Like counting the rings of a tree, you can count how many times the car has been painted 

loosecannon said:

In reply to nocones :

Hard to ignore all the engineering that goes into the C6 suspension but things like track width, suspension attachment points and engine location can cause immense headaches and ultimately compromise what I am after.

When you get to the point of doing the suspension, please go into great detail of what and why- I think it would make a great article for GRM, too.  That's one area that I'm interested in learning more about- and seeing what you did with the Pink Panther, you have put a lot of thought an analysis into suspension designs.

The other part that will be interesting to me is comparing the updated chassis to an old one, just for street driving.  I kind of expect that the new suspension will ride better, even tuned to be a good autocross car, than the old one.  Progress of technology and design concpets and all.

In reply to alfadriver :

I will not be designing this one from scratch, like I did with the Pink Panther. This time, I am letting somebody else do all the work and I am just going to buy it. Here are the suspension systems I am considering: Ron Sutton Track Star or Total Cost Involved or Speedway Motors Front suspension and Speedway Motors rear suspension. Take a look at each of these and tell me which one you think is the best way to go.

Are you willing to commit to a tire/rim combination and the size of the tires for the car, going into the build?

Right on, I will be following this and can't wait to see it in action!

loosecannon said:

In reply to alfadriver :

I will not be designing this one from scratch, like I did with the Pink Panther. This time, I am letting somebody else do all the work and I am just going to buy it. Here are the suspension systems I am considering: Ron Sutton Track Star or Total Cost Involved or Speedway Motors Front suspension and Speedway Motors rear suspension. Take a look at each of these and tell me which one you think is the best way to go.

I'm very much not a suspension and chassis person, so I don't have anything to add.  This is where I want to learn more... 

I am by no means a smart man when it comes to suspension, but all of those kits look good to me. The torque arm rear seems like the best solution for a live rear axle.  On the front, I didn't see camber gains, roll centers, or anything in any descriptions, just the standard aftermarket "you're gonna love it" sctick. Can you get feedback from anyone who had installed any of them? Maybe a ride along?

Fantastic project from a fantastic builder. It will be cool to be a fly on the wall for all this.

An earlier picture made it look like the quarters were off. Did you mock them up for the pics, or has some progress been made in the body shop since those were taken?

In reply to loosecannon :

Looking at them- can't really add anything to the front, but for the rear- why are all of them long torque arm solutions?   As opposed to a 4 link or even a 3 link that incorporates a anti-torque wedge design?  Is there no package space for upper arms along the axle?

jr02518 said:

Are you willing to commit to a tire/rim combination and the size of the tires for the car, going into the build?

Yes, I want to run 315/30-18 all the way around 

wheelsmithy (Joe-with-an-L) said:

I am by no means a smart man when it comes to suspension, but all of those kits look good to me. The torque arm rear seems like the best solution for a live rear axle.  On the front, I didn't see camber gains, roll centers, or anything in any descriptions, just the standard aftermarket "you're gonna love it" sctick. Can you get feedback from anyone who had installed any of them? Maybe a ride along?

Fantastic project from a fantastic builder. It will be cool to be a fly on the wall for all this.

An earlier picture made it look like the quarters were off. Did you mock them up for the pics, or has some progress been made in the body shop since those were taken?

 

Someone with a TCI suspension won Nationals a couple of years ago so I know that kit is capable and have spoken to the owner, who recommends it. Another car with the Speedway Motors kit has won the Goodguys Auto-x event and Hot Rodding magazine did an article on it that looks very positive. I'm learning towards Speedway Motors kit because we have connections to them and they are located in Lincoln, Nebraska and we're there twice a year for racing

It's amazing how many cool cars are still tucked away in random places around the country. Cool to see this one rescued

it might be worth reviewing Mark Stielow's builds over on Lateral G, so much detail 

You might want to confirm the that the Goodguys event was run on the softest tires the competitors could put on their cars.  I think you will find that Tom Berry had the quick lap in the morning and everyone caught up later in the day.

Do your research on Ron Sutton.   He fell out of favor on Lateral G a while back from what I recall.  Another vote for what Stielow does.  He's done a LOT with these cars over the years.

Speedway front and rear is my vote.....for rotor size alone, but your relegated to 275/18's up front from the factory. Can this be addressed to accept 315/18's(front) and not negate any warranty issue's perhaps?  Will this be a first time for Loose C to embrace all that is LS? Oh... and I think a ghost panther face(winking) on the rear license plate panel is way appropriate (YCMMV). Along for the ride bro!!!!

Unlike all the others here  am at the vomit stage when someone suggests another first gen Camaro pro touring car. That being said I have followed your builds and know that you will produce something that isn't a belly button car. Actually I think there are more first gens than belly buttons in the world!

It never ceases to amaze me how many builds are in our area and the quality of those builds. Good luck going forward and I will follow whatever you put out there, even if it is a Camaro, LOL.

egoman said:

Unlike all the others here  am at the vomit stage when someone suggests another first gen Camaro pro touring car. That being said I have followed your builds and know that you will produce something that isn't a belly button car. Actually I think there are more first gens than belly buttons in the world!

It never ceases to amaze me how many builds are in our area and the quality of those builds. Good luck going forward and I will follow whatever you put out there, even if it is a Camaro, LOL.

I can understand you wanting to see something more unique but I've paid my dues with unique cars (V12 powered MGB) and am really tired of doing all the work and spending all the money and banging my head against the wall of doing a build that, in the end, nobody knows what to do with it and nobody wants to buy. Building the Suburban taught me that I can build something that is unique enough to set it apart but at the same time making mainstream enough that people are willing to pay for it. That last part is important because losing money on car projects is something for young people with their whole lives ahead of them to save for retirement, not somebody like me. 

We spent months thinking about the next project and wanted something that: 1) We both love the looks of 2) Had a street tire class where we could be competitive 3) That we could drag race, time attack, autocross and be still comfortably cruise on the street 4) Customize without having to be all custom and finally 5)We can easily sell it for what we have into it. Many cars were considered and it was narrowed down to a 510 Datsun, 1st gen Nova and 1st gen Camaro. The 510 was finally dropped because the initial buy in is so high right now, those cars are really hot and prices are crazy. The 1st gen Nova was a leading candidate because we would have gotten a wagon and made it really cool but I realized that there is a ceiling on what people will pay for a pro-touring Nova and we could easily build a car and actually lose money on it if we sold it.  But the sky is the limit for 1st gen Camaro's and we will definitely be able to sell it for more than we have into it when it's done. Having said that, we have no plans to sell this one and think we will have it forever but if some rich benefactor came along and offered me GT3RS money of it, I would sell in a second.

That's a very logical argument.  I support you.

I like different and obscure, but different and obscure is expensive and often money-losing.

Get building already - I want to live vicariously through you!!

(I think I'd pick the Speedway one, if for nothing else than the extra bracing - make sure the bracing is legal in whatever you want to compete in).

loosecannon said:

Like counting the rings of a tree, you can count how many times the car has been painted 

What do you even do when there is that much unknown paint on a chassis?  Soda blast to bare metal or simply block it smooth and add another layer to the gobstopper?

84FSP said:

loosecannon said:

Like counting the rings of a tree, you can count how many times the car has been painted 

What do you even do when there is that much unknown paint on a chassis?  Soda blast to bare metal or simply block it smooth and add another layer to the gobstopper?

I have begun work on the car and job #1 is taking everything off that I don't want media blasted because it's going to the blaster this week. I also had to straighten out the floor that was damaged by the forklift