Tommy Boy: Making an ex Nascar turn right on an almost challenge budget

so, my mopar buddy ryan told me he had a small pile of "9 inch ford crap" that i needed to come get. He has no history on it, no knowledge of it, but wants his bucket back.

After lunch, i took a ride over. He gave me a whole chunk in a bucket, spare carriers, etc. 

The chunk seems to be a 3.5x judging by turning the input shaft and counting. There numbers stamped on the ring gear, but none make sense. Its a 28 spline with the holes too small for the 31 spline axles to fit. 

The loose 9 inch carrier is a 31 spline. Not sure if its a posi or not, but....

I gave him 20 bucks and will be buying his dinner at the next cruise night. 

So ot seems that i can feasibly take the 31 spline carrier, put dresh bearings on it, and mount it in the 3.5x ring gear chunk. Right? Again, cheapest way to get the car up and going is the plan for now. If the gears are right, and the carrier is an open, ill put a posi or locker in down the road.

Any good how tos? 

That sure looks like a "spool", which is no differential at all, same as "welded". No side gears or spider gears.

In reply to TurnerX19 :

Theres spider gears inside. But the whole thing looks like the lockers i saw yesterday at the nascar store 

Dusterbd13-michael said:

 

The loose 9 inch carrier is a 31 spline. Not sure if its a posi or not, but....

The number cast into the side of the carrier should tell you what it is, but to me it looks like an open carrier.

If you're not doing the pinion bearings, the carrier swap is very easy, you adjust the backlash via the bearing preload adjusters to move the ring gear towards or away from the pinion. 

If you're doing a full set of bearings, fit a solid pinion spacer as opposed to the crush spacer (which can crush further under heavy use, screwing up the bearing preload). Full setup is a little more challenging, but more just tedious because you'll have the pinion in and out a few times getting the pinion preload right (or do it once with the crush spacer). 

In reply to jimgood :

The pinned side gears hold the axle side gears from coming out.  
 

Remove the pin, and the pinned gears can be rotated out at which point the axle side gears can be removed.  
 

To reinstall, place the axle side gears in place then slide the other side gears into their position.  Both have to go in together 

In reply to Gammaboy :

So, setting backlash:

Any special tools needed? I haven't had time to Google yet, as tye last few days have been incredibly busy. 

Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to Gammaboy :

So, setting backlash:

Any special tools needed? I haven't had time to Google yet, as tye last few days have been incredibly busy. 

Yes...  and it's very easy to mess up.  
 

Pinion depth has to be set, the preload on the pinion bearing must be right, and the ring gear and preload for that bearing has to be right. 

There is a very good explanation of setting backlash in this video. I think it's queued up to the right spot. This is bmw specific but the process is the same if you use a crush spacer. I can only speculate that using a solid spacer means you have to remove the pinion and cut down the spacer in order to achieve the correct backlash.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O84d0y-vfBw&t=2218s

The video went a long way to my understanding of the process. The main difference is that the bmw has the side covers that adjust the center section side to side with shims. I don't know what the corollary is with a solid diff, if there is one.

Dusterbd13-michael said:

In reply to Gammaboy :

So, setting backlash:

Any special tools needed? I haven't had time to Google yet, as tye last few days have been incredibly busy. 

I made my own tools for the bearing adjusters out of flat bar drilled and tapped for 6mm bolts. For tightening the pinion nut I clamped the yoke with a hydraulic press. Other option is, once again, flat bar with holes.

As far as setting pinion preload with the solid spacer kits, they come with a stack of shims, so you start with a full stack and peel shims off till you're at the right preload (using an old pinion nut). Then you replace the pinion nut with a brand new one and call it done. 

Yes, if you're starting from scratch, or doing a full set of bearings, it's easy to get it wrong, but if you're methodical, don't rush and read the tooth mesh pattern it's not too bad. Just use the new pinion nut and bend the lock tabs as the very last stage. Be prepared to have the whole thing together and then blow it apart to adjust the pinion depth (a bearing splitter and a hydraulic press is a must have for this).

I'd never done one before, but did it at a friend's place while drinking beers over a few hours and it came out perfectly. The guide I followed was one the old Ford muscle site I think, probably gone now.

Thanks!

I think I'll tackle that soon. 

Tonight was reassembley. The wrong hogshead is in, i need to add limiter straps, nut and bolt check my work, then on to rear brakes. 

Paint marker everything you tighten or check.

In reply to Appleseed :

Good call. Need to get one.

Previous budget was 3035 with 315 recoup

new money:

73 duster 340 body with 71 front clip and crap inside: $660

lug nuts: 20

front wheel studs: 20

inner axle seals: 30

outer axle seals: 20

rear hub hardware: 12

rear u bolt: 5

3/4-16 locknuts: 21.13

white rustoleum: 14

springs: 100

shock lot: 20

Kirkey and cover: 80

9 inch hogshead and 31 spline carrier 20

new total: 4057.13 with 315 recoup

I have to say the cuda took a minute and a few odd scope changes. However, its done and the owner is super happy. Im also REALLY impressed with the sniper stealth 4150 and holley's homework on this. So much better than all the other systems ive done. Way, way better than them. Way better than the fast and megasquirt ive used as well. Just a quality product.

20220605_162356 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

with that done, I pulled the nascar back in the shop. I decided that the next step was to rebuild the rear end and suspension. I did this for multiple reasons. Biggest was that I needed to go through it all before I was willing to tow dolly it to dads shop where I have the good welder and can complete the cage repairs. The cage repairs are the next real step to do before test fitting the drivetrain and getting all the ergonomics sorted.

I pulled the rear axle, truck arms, etc to get started. It all came apart pretty easy. I had to cut one of the u bolts that just refused to come apart to release the truck arm from housing.

20220610_164239 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_080835 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_180458 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

upon disassembly, I found the rear shocks were bent and leaking. Additionally, there were no inner seals on the axle tubes, most of the hardware on the rear hubs was either mangled or missing, and the grease seals were a mere suggestion.

20220610_174316 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_180507 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

So I started clean up. Ordered replacement hardware from amazon as it was all fine thread socket head screws. Disassembled the rear hubs and bearings, cleaned up in the parts washer. We were able to identify them as speedway engineering hubs, with the right rear bearing being a super low friction piece. Chased all the threads and had to drill out some broken hardware. I went ahead and repainted everything while it was apart, cleaned up the studs, etc.

20220617_102546 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220617_102557 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

to replace the bent shocks, I found an add on facebook for 6 30 series koni shocks and 4 bilstien. The lengths listed seemed workable, so I contacted the seller. Turned out he only wanted $20 for all 10 shocks. So I bought them. I love konis on the autocross and corvette applications ive tried them in, but it seems they're not common in the circle track world, but for the price I took a gamble.

Screenshot_20220610-184525_Facebook by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

bought a kirkey seat and cover from the seller too. Its a wide seat, and the cover is perfect. So for $80 I brought it home. Apparently no pictures on my phone, and I don't feel up to going out to the shop for one (have food poisoning). Regardless, I started cleaning and painting the konis. Turns out duplicolor Chevrolet red-orange is a perfect match

20220614_162312 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220614_163044 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220615_084736 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

somewhere in here I started to get the gearing and hogshead sorted out for the rear axle, and the axle itself sorted. I pulled apart the cheapo 9 inch u bought from runion. Cleaned up the hogshead, verified the 2.76 open diff, and later discovered that its a 28 spline, not 31. which probably wont work. Unfortunately.

Regardless, its filling the hole in the housing for now.

20220614_175555 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220615_152906 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

the housing cleaned up beautifully, and was shot in gloss black rustoleum. I installed the rebuilt hubs with new seals and fresh grease, obtained the inner axle tube seals, and put it together. I did get used floater axles win 27.75 and 32 inch lengths, 31 spline. However, apparently this housing is significantly narrower than the current (last 20 years) cup axle. So I will have to have custom shafts made. I could get the shafts in 28 or 31 spline, and am debating with myself which way to go as both my hogsheads are 28 spline open, but I have a 31 carrier. And 31 track lock seem to be easier to find.

20220617_091035 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

since I alluded to it, I scored a hatch load of parts from a mopar buddy. He had a “pile of 9 inch crap” that needed to leave. Most of it was exactly that, but in the pile was a whole 3.5x 28 spline hogshead and a 31 spline open carrier. Right gear ratio at least! And I gave him $20 bucks for steak, which made him happy. Ill buy his dinner too one night.

20220617_141008 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

I also took the opportunity to do the underside of the car. This is not fun. The quickjacks made it better, but it still sucks. I scrubbed everything down with brown scotchbrite pads and superclean to get the grease, oil, and grime off, wiped down with windex and a paper towel, and shot with rattle can white rustoleum.

20220612_082611 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220612_082618 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220613_174003 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220614_073658 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220617_090636 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

I went ahead and began reassembly with new locknuts, cleaned and greased adjusters, new to me 550lb eibach springs out back, the konis, etc. starting to come together back there, and after a good nut and bolt check ill get the brakes on, and towed down to dads. Only one picture at the moment, as that's all that's on my phone to upload to flickr at the moment.

20220620_191302 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

other stuff that ive been working on, such as brakes, aren't quite ready yet and I have no pictures. I was able to figure out the rotors are still available (at $112 each. Holy crap), the rear JFZ calipers are an exact match to the wiliwood superlites Patrick gave me, the fronts use a common wilwood backing plate, steve made me a delrin bushing so I can use a spare brake pedal as clutch in mt pedal box with a custom clevis, etc. lots of little things and baby steps.

Another baby step was getting the body out of my driveway. Stampie picked it up, strapped it to a lotus europa on his trailer, and took it with him to the buyer in Florida who is hanging it on his wall. He was unable to get the passengers side, but its ok, it worked out in the end.

20220615_202229 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

I also bought a body. Its not as bad as I was looking for, but it was the right price and has some recoup parts on it. The car is a 73 340 car that was hacked up for a big block drag car, and then parted out and left for dead. There's no windshield, which is a problem. I want to keep a glass windshield in here for maintenance and longevity reasons. I know lexan is more impact resistant, but ot becomes a wear item pretty quickly. The seller did throw in a 70-72 front clip for me, as that's the car I want to clone. There's the manual steering box and big bolt discs still present, a gas tank, a grant steering wheel, etc. ill need to go pick it up when I free up some space, and my mopar buddy that gave me the 9 inch stuff thinks he wants to buy everything im not using on my car to fix the rust in his daughters. So I may be able to use his rotisserie and help, and get it done quicker and easier than I thought! Hopefully be able to sell off enough to mostly zero the car out.

IMG_4598 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_110754 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_110801 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_110807 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

20220611_110817 by Michael Crawford, on Flickr

until next time!

Appleseed said:

Paint marker everything you tighten or check.

Actually, get this stuff.

It breaks off if the bolt turns and makes it even clearer that something moved.  No more getting a bunch of different colors and trying to remember which one was the last applied....

In reply to wvumtnbkr :

Its in my Amazon cart. Thanks!

Not a directly related post, but a closely related post.

One of the projects that has been in my head for a while is dads 50 ford f1. Ive been chipping away at the rust repair in it for a while. Hos goal was safe and sound, nice interior, leave the patina. 

Ive spent MONTHS making pieces, cutting, welding, grinding, thinking, a d learning. We found out a one piece floor was available after i had built the front half from scratch. Big turn in progress by cutting out months of work (months as in one half or full weekend or day of the weekend and some nights after work most weeks) and welding in the money shot. Still. 

It was a large and steep learning curve for me. But today was the last round of welding and grinding. We bought por15, seam sealer, and epoxy primer today for the next steps. 

Im not entirely happy with some of it if im honest. Some serious ugly from the back sides of the rear cab wall, but it'll be hidden under interior panels. 

Lotta work. But maybe be able to see dad finally drive this thing this year. Finally. 

Today, i decided to make the shocks fit. I couldn't remove the bottom mount studs to pit in my drill press and turn down to fit the i.d. if the koni spherical bearing. So i pulled the bent bilstein from the scrap pile and measured. Looks like their bearings should press into the konis with a little bit of hole embiggening. 

I was only able to get one of the six out the proper way. 

However, the portaband got the other five. I now have six correctly sized lower bearings for the konis. 

Looking great Michael!!  Nice!

It looks familiar，you have my attention...

so, just about ready to haul down to dads place this weekend, assuming I can get the brakes on the tow dolly fixed.  I know i don't need them for the car at this point, but its already torn down. 

Im hoping to get it down there and drivetrain test fitted this weekend. May or may not happen. I have to find the sunroof leaks in the wifes mazda5. 

But, three calipers are torn down and cleaned up and ready to rebuild. New pedal box almost done. Seat mounts bent. Floors started on por15. 

Im getting excited. 

Looks like a proper chassis! 

I'm happy with how this turned out. Not completely done yet. Need to triangulate the mount plate to the dash bar. And get fresh fittings for the master cylinders. Ill need to figure out what master sizes i need to use, and build them. 

The plate is a speedway mount plate that i cut up to fit. Drilled the four corners and tapped to 1/4-20 to bolt through the firewall. These bolts, in addition to the triangulation to the dash bar should really make the pedals rock solid. I also drilled the plate and firewall for 3an bulkhead fittings, used braided hose to connect the masters to them. Ill need to use remote resivoirs for clearance sake. 

This was a super fiddly process. But one i had to absolutely nail for actually being able to drive this car. The footwell is cramped, and im not in great shape due to being a beat up desk jocky. Pedals were first, seat is next, column is third.  Gas pedal is last, though i expect to have to fight with clearance and ergonomic issues. 

If you see something off here, please call me out on it. Ive never done this before, and firmly subscribed to my fathers saying "not running is an inconvenience. Not stopping will kill you "

Absolutely.  The more go, the more whoa!  Nice progress.  Don't worry, you're young.  You've got plenty more years to beat on yourself.

i knew it would be tight. Didn't expect this tight though. But, its down at dads. First tow with my new dolly, first tow of this car. Uneventful. Just the way we like it. 

What's up with the hoses going through the firewall under the master cylinders?