Muffin - 1997 Jeep Wrangler(TJ)

In an effort to help the four lethargic squirrels at the heart of Muffin's power plant breath a little better, I attempted an "upgrade." Could be read as, "turd polish."

It's widely known that short of forced induction, or major machine work there's not a whole lot you're going to do to the 2.5l to make any real gains in power. Muffin's MPFI version of the mill is already at its pinnacle in terms of OEM power, which still ain't much. I ditched the stock mechanical fan long ago, in favor of an electric fan, alleged to provide noticeable gains in performance, it may have added half a squirrel, but made no difference I could tell, placebo or otherwise. Muffin is hobbled by the auto transmission too, so pretty much worst case scenario.

That's basically been the extent of Muffin's engine performance upgrades, I've mostly relegated to the fact that it is what it is, live with it. Then a while back I joined the forum 4bangerJP, it's dedicated to the 4 cylinder Jeeps, mostly YJ, MJ, and TJ, there's a few 2.5l Dakota folks there too. Doing some reading there convinced me to try something else.

The 4.0l throttle body has exactly the same external dimensions, and bolt pattern as the 2.5l throttle body, but has a larger bore size (same size as the bore in the manifold). Allegedly the 4.0l throttle body on the 2.5l is supposed to improve throttle response, Muffin needs all the help she can get. So I found a $30 4.0l throttle body on eBay, included everything but the IAC guts, which was fine I didn't need them anyway.

While the 4.0l throttle body's external dimensions are the same, the sensors are not, you've got to swap the IAC, TPS, and MAP from the 2.5l throttle body to the 4.0l throttle body, otherwise silly things like high idle, and other erratic behavior can occur.

2.5l on the left, 4.0l on the right, notice the smaller butterfly and taper to the bore of the 2.5l.

Jeep was even nice enough to label them for me.

While I knew that I had to swap all the sensors over, I didn't really put a lot of thought into physical differences. I pulled the MAP and TPS off of my 2.5l throttle body, and swapped them over to the 4.0l throttle body. Since my "new" 4.0l throttle body was only missing the guts (solenoid), I simply pulled the guts from the 2.5l IAC housing and put them into the 4.0l's IAC housing. Simple enough right?

Reading along and looking at the pictures you probably already noticed a blatant difference, that bone head me over looked, and why they say to swap the IAC, not just swap the solenoid. There's a little tab that protrudes out on the bottom of the IAC housing, the tabs are in different spots on the 2.5l and 4.0l throttle bodies. You can't physically put a throttle body with a 4.0l IAC housing on a 2.5l intake manifold because of that little tab, and I guess it's safe to assume the opposite is true as well.

So what did I do when I noticed my "new" 4.0l throttle body wasn't seating on the throttle body gasket? When I felt interference, did I stop and investigate what the issue was? Nope, you see, I do dumb things. Instead of seeing what the problem was, I assumed, the bolt holes might not be exactly right, and continued to turn the ratchet a little harder until I heard a "pop." I thought, "Hmm, that didn't sound right." I then removed the throttle body to investigate.

Well there's your problem, broke a bolt.

But it was much worse than just a broken bolt.

Like I said, I do dumb things. Since I seem to so enjoy doing the same thing twice, I now have another 4.0l throttle body currently on its way to my house, actually cheaper than the first one I destroyed. "I'll get you next time Gadget!"

I didn't let a silly thing like a busted throttle body keep me down though.

This past weekend I put the new top on. Simple enough, I've done it once before. I put a Bestop Replace-a-Top with tinted rear windows on Muffin back in ~'02. It did well, holding up to my neglect and abuse. During the Icemageddon of January '09 I had a big limb of a tree break off and fall on it. The tree limb poked some holes in some spots, bent the soft top bows, destroyed the rear zipper, and it was cold enough that the rear vinyl window more or less shattered on impact.

I pulled the top off, straightened the bows out and drove without a rear window well into the following Spring. Muffin wasn't my daily driver, and I didn't make getting a window a priority.

I eventually contacted Bestop, ordered a new rear window, told them what happened, and they offered to give me some replacement zipper sliders/pulls. I paid enough for the big piece of tinted, transparent, vinyl with their name on it, that they didn't really "give" me zipper sliders. Turns out they sent me front window zipper sliders, no use to me. I contacted them about it, they apologized, and then sent me, more front window zipper sliders... sigh. I contacted them again and they were in process of moving their operation from Colorado to Mexico (I think, somewhere not in the USA anyway) and weren't going to be able to do anything about it for a while. So I had made do with zip ties holding the rear window mostly in place since then.

My top was in rough shape, between the tree falling on it, general wear, a rip above the passenger front door that was getting bigger every time I looked at it, and the zip tied rear window, it was time for a new top.

I seriously considered another Bestop, Sailcloth Replace-a-Top this time around, but man are they proud of them, especially if you want upper door skins too. I looked at everything on the market, and after some emails back and forth with Quadratec's customer service, I chose their QuadraTop Premium Sailcloth top with tinted rear windows, and new upper door skins. The QuadraTop Premium Sailcloth uses the same 28oz fabric as Bestop's Sailcloth, has 10 mil thicker windows than Bestop, and offers a year longer warranty than Bestop. The icing on the cake is that the QuadraTop is just a little over half the cost of the Bestop, once you figure in the cost of upper door skins. Quadratec even admitted to me that Bestop is a little better top, but it's not "twice" as good. The QuadraTop is made in China, but Bestop isn't made in the USA anymore anyway. My own experience shows that the Bestop fits a little better than the QuadraTop, but I am still using ~18 year old soft top bows that had a tree fall on them. New soft top hardware might tighten things up a bit.

Sunday evening, with the front seats in and the new top on, I drove by the Gulf station for some of their Ethanol Free 87 octane, and then took SWMBO to Sonic for some ice cream. The picture's kind of blurry (that's about the only kind I can take) but you can see the waves in the tinted side window from the loose fit. I'm still using the old Bestop upper door skins, and they don't fit perfect with the QuadraTop, so things might improve some when I switch to the QuadraTop door skins.

The thicker Sailcloth material is supposed to be a lot quieter, it's noticeably quieter than it was, but I also have bed liner on the tub and a rear window now. Who knows, when I fix the exhaust leak you might be able to carry on a conversation in the cabin without yelling.

So I drove Muffin to work one day this week, 60ish miles round trip. SWMBO and I typically car pool, but she had to be in another part of the state for work, so she took the Jetta, I would usually have taken the 850, but its starter is flaky and there's a short somewhere draining the battery. Then next best option should have been the XJ, but I'm hesitant to do highway speeds with its current tires, they're not long for this world. This left Muffin as my "best choice" to commute to work in. How sad is that?

It was, and adventure. I've driven Muffin around town some, she's done okay, hadn't had her death wobble since replacing the sway bar end links, but I really hadn't stretched her legs yet, she hadn't done more than 45 mph very many times since the day I brought her from my folks house to ours.

So I set out on my adventure to work. The first nerve racking issue was merging onto the interstate. I'm NOT exaggerating when I say Muffin is SLOW, gas peddle mashed against the floor and I was only up to 55 MPH by the time I HAD to merge onto the interstate, there wasn't any ramp left. Thankfully a semi driver made room for me. I continued on my merry way, listening to Morning Edition on the new speakers, volume up to be heard over the exhaust leak, but not excessively loud thanks to the new top, and grinning ear to ear as I eventually got Muffin up to around 73 MPH. That's pretty much her top speed, and she can only kind of maintain that speed on flat surfaces, but I didn't care Muffin and I were together again!

I managed to do highway speeds for about 8-10 miles before I got into heavy work traffic, stop and go, the rest of the way. This really sucked, Muffin's front right right brake caliper started really grabbing, or maybe the left wasn't grabbing at all, I could basically steer Muffin when braking, and it became an exercise of turning the steering wheel to the left to compensate for braking. I was scared to death of any potential emergency braking that I might have to do.

Muffin and I preservered though, we made it to our first exit, and headed across the river bridge. The left two lanes weren't so much stop and go, just slow, but steady. That's when it happened, I was in the middle of the 3 South bound lanes, right smack dab in the middle of the bridge, heavy traffic all around me, 45 mph, ran over a bump from an expansion joint, and DEATH WOBBLE!!! Muffin had lulled me into a false sense of security, I hit the brakes compensating for the severe pull to the right and Muffin shaking violently, my fingers hurt from the death grip I had on the steering wheel, and it's possibly a slight amount of incontinence occurred.

I found it, Muffin's death wobble "sweet spot." I've been down this road before, and had alleviated the issue at one point, but it's back again. Thanks to my prior experience though, I know how to tell when it's about to happen, I can kind of "sense" it, and can usually prevent and/or drive through it. However, when everything has been hunky dory, and you're not expecting it, surprise death wobble can very much live up to its name.

We did make it to work in one piece though.

I left work an hour early to avoid traffic, managed to mitigated any further, severe death wobble, and survived the drive home.

Muffin won't be making anymore trips like that until the steering upgrades are seen to.

I thought, during that story, that you were going to tell us a story about wrecking it. I am much happier now.

So what is tbis death wobble and do all stock jeeps suffer from it?

Basically, the wheels shake back and forth from left to right, sometimes quite violently. I passed an XJ about 3 weeks ago doing it so badly the tires were squealing and I thought he was going to lose control and come into my lane. Not much of a problem on stock suspension/tires, but when you go bigger/taller

Dusterbd13 wrote: So what is tbis death wobble and do all stock jeeps suffer from it?

Sonic described what it is pretty well.

All XJs, ZJs, TJs, MJs, JKs, and other vehicles with coil sprung multi link front suspension with a panhard bar are susceptible, so a lot of Dodge, Ford, and old Toyota trucks/SUVs too.

A lot of it stems from just worn out parts, which is a lot of Muffin's issue. It's often exasperated by poor alignment, unbalanced wheels/tires, and cheap lift kits that don't correct for proper geometry.

Muffin has tired parts, and a cheap coil spring spacer "lift kit" with stock control arms and panhard bar, she's a prime candidate.

It's seen so much more often in the Jeep community because people put a cheap Rough Country lift kit on, then think they can run King of the Hammers in their mall crawler. Big tires are hard to balance, they don't stay balanced when driving off road much, the cheap lift kit throws the caster all out of spec, and then they experience death wobble.

A good steering stabilizer can help mask milder death wobble, but the real fix is all about wear and geometry.

If you're going to lift a Jeep much at all, you need longer and/or adjustable control arms, and a longer or adjustable panhard bar.

Sometimes it can be caused by the steering box actually moving, big tires put a lot of strain on the steering components, there's a lot of various designs of aftermarket steering box reinforcement doodads available. Along the same line, the stock panhard bar mount is often not up to the abuse of larger tires, and offroading, it will wear and actually flex with steering input too, there are doodads available to beef it up too.

• Lee

I got to tinker on Muffin some more over the weekend.

I've mentioned several times already Muffin's exhaust manifold leak and how she sounds like a tractor. I don't think I've brought up the stumble almost every time I start her up. If Muffin is cool, she will stumble and surge pretty much every time between 30 seconds to a minute after starting her. Stumbling to the point of dying on occasion, similar to running out of gas. Throttle input doesn't make much difference, she'll stumble for 10+ seconds then smooth out and not have a problem again until the next time I start her up while cool.

I decided to tackle that little issue. Shortly after I got Muffin running again I purchased a complete Fel-Pro gasket set for her, strangely enough I managed to find a complete gasket set for about $5 more than just the manifold gasket, so I bought the whole set. Additionally I expected to have broken manifold studs and/or bolts, and there was a decent chance of me breaking more while removing the manifold so I purchased a Dorman Jeep 2.5l manifold stud kit too.

I dove in and started removing stuff. I soon noticed that I was indeed missing a stud.

I was pretty bummed, at first glance it appeared that the stud was broken off in the head. I've been down that road on Muffin once before, it resulted in having to remove the head to get the broken stud out, I really didn't want to do that again. When I got the flash light to investigate further, it looked more like dirt, and there seemed to be a hole in it. I picked at it and sure enough, the stud was missing, and the dirt dobbers took advantage of the vacant hole in the head.

Once the manifolds were removed it was pretty obvious where the leaks were. The gasket was in poor shape, and it appeared that the intake manifold had been leaking as well.

I used an entire bottle of brake cleaner, a razor blade, a wire brush, and some elbow grease to clean all of the mating surfaces. Then I installed a stud from the Dorman kit.

Then I slipped the new Copper Coat covered Fel-Pro gasket over the studs.

While I was at it, I discovered yet another dirt dobber nest, I'm guessing if anyone was still home in this one they're pretty well toasted by now.

I put everything back together, torqued everything to spec, and installed the "new" new 4.0l throttle body, this time with the correct 2.5l IAC assembly.

After everything was back together, I double checked all hoses and connections, and I fired her up. I was slightly alarmed when Muffin's idle screamed to 3000 RPM, that was a bit much. Leaving it like that I could tell that it was slowly trying to compensate, and got down to about 2700 RPM on its own. Still WAY too high. Given time the computer would probably have eventually figured it out. Apparently the IAC ports in the 4.0l throttle body are bigger than the 2.5l throttle body, so it was getting way more air at idle than needed. I disconnected the battery, touched the positive and negative cables together, and left it alone for about 10 minutes. After I hooked the battery back up, and started her up, the idle settled to around 900 RPM.

Muffin might actually have 4 squirrels under the hood again, she's still slow as molasses, but maybe more like molasses in late Spring as apposed to molasses in Winter time. I can't attribute any real gains to the throttle body, it probably helped some, but fixing the vacuum leak at the manifold had to have been the biggest factor. No more stumble, no more exhaust leak, and I was able to go up a slight grade near our house at 50 mph with much less effort than the past few times.

I made a Youtube video you can hear Muffin's before and after, as well as the stumble I was talking about earlier.

https://www.youtube.com/embed/GwgtfSPEmL4

Here's a fun bench race exercise...

Muffin NEEDS more power. I've worked out future everything on Muffin in my head, but am waffling on power train. SOMETHING has to happen, but what?

Just for posterity's sake; before uprooting and moving 800 miles away, I was collecting parts for Muffin to be a monster, I had 1 ton axles, a .030 over bored LT1 clearanced for a stroker crank, etc. etc. I sold a lot of parts before the move. I still own the complete LT1 drop out fresh block, a 2WD 700R4, and a few different transfer cases.

Muffin's not going that direction anymore. Stock-ish width axles, and dual purpose, dual sport, weekend warrior, whatever you want to call it, mild wheeling and the ability to run 80 MPH down the highway are the goals. I don't think I want to build the LT1 for Muffin anymore. My 700R4 would need a 4x4 main shaft and tail housing to be of any use, so I've not really considered it an option either.

So I've got some options. The 30RH in Muffin is basically a TF904, and since it's bolted to the latest and greatest version of AMC's 2.5l, it shares a bellhousing bolt pattern with GM's line of Metric (small corporate pattern) engines. This is most of the 60° V6s, the 90° 3.8l variants, The Olds 3.5l Shortstar, LS4, and a number of Caddy engines.

The second option would be some forum of forced induction on the current 2.5l, there's limited DIY documentation of both turbos and superchargers installed on these engines. Believe it or not 505 offers a turbo kit for the 2.5l, and Avenger used to offer a supercharger for it. I've got a dog eared copy of Corky Bell's Maximum Boost, and narrowed down to a few factory application turbos that would blow Muffin's skirt up. What could possibly go wrong?

The third option is swap basically entire drive train, engine and transmission. I've thought of everything under the sun. I haven't seen anyone stick a turbo Volvo White Block in a TJ yet.

The hang up with any option that utilizes the 30RH is the gear ratios, and no over drive. With the tire size and axle ratio I have planned, 70 MPH will be 3300 RPM, pretty high. Swapping the 30RH for something like the 700R4 not only gets me over drive and drops the engine RPM at 70 MPH by almost 1000 RPM, it offers a much better crawl ratio as well thanks to that super low 1st gear.

I've researched turboing the little 2.5l until I'm blue in the face. I can get potentially reliable power close to that of a stock 4.0l, with lower levels of boost, but that's about it without some expensive components, forged bits, and heaping pile turd polish. Cost gets out of hand real quick if you start building the 2.5l to handle copious amounts of boost.

Keeping the 30RH and picking from GM's Metric Pattern Bellhousing Tree, I lean toward the L67/L32 super charged 3800, a pulley and tune away from over 300 HP and they're thick on the ground, and cheap. The 3.5l Shortstar is intriguing too, DOHC V6, nice power curve, all aluminum, the sand rail guys used to make respectable power with them, but they've not been made in a while, aren't as common, and were relatively short lived production. I haven't discounted the naturally aspirated 3.8l either, it'd probably be the budget swap option, even the lowly L36 makes 85 more HP and almost 100 more Lb Ft than Muffin's little 2.5l. I don't think there's a point in looking at the LS4, might as well get a 4.8l or 5.3l and trans from a 4x4 truck if I want LSX power, which leads me to the next option...

Engine and trans combo, the more I think about it, the more it makes sense to ditch the 30RH too, but not going manual, Muffin will continue to be an automatic. As mentioned earlier the sky's the limit, well the bank account's the limit. The 5.7l Hemi is a common, well documented, and supported swap, though pricy. The venerable LSX options. Odd ball options, if they can be rationalized I consider everything, I like Volvos, hence the White Block comment earlier. I tend to lean more GM than anything else, but cost/performance/fuel economy will all play a role. Tame stuff like a 4.0l and AW4 out of a Cherokee have been considered too.

What I need to decide first is, keep the 2.5l or not? If not, keep the 30RH or not? If not, I'll go from there. The novelty of a turbo 2.5l is appealing, but the return on investment just isn't there, short of getting everything for free.

Thoughts? Talk amongst yourselves.

Redblock Volvo. An agricultural implement like Muffin deserves a true tractor engine.

3.4 camaro 60* v6. Leave the rest alone.

Supercharged 3800!

If I went with a GM Metric pattern engine it'd likely be the Gen II or III 3800, supercharged of course.

The 3.4l would be an improvement, and no doubt that it's more efficient, but I could make similar power with a budget turbo on the 2.5l and not bother with sourcing and swapping the engine.

I figure if something silly were to be swapped, the turbo I5 White Block (B5234T3) is right up my alley, it's in my wheel house, but the turbo Red Block can sure make some power, B230T would be unique and fun.

• Lee

I made a spreadsheet... These are the physically bolt to the current 30RH transmission options, exceptions being the 4.0l, LT1, and a solid plausibly on the 3500/3900.

I'd like at least to be on par with a stock 4.0l (Numbers to beat). The LT1 is just a reference, since I've already got one, and those numbers are for a bone stock '97 Formula Flaming Chicken, which is what mine was from. Those are all peak numbers at the listed RPM, i.e. late model 4.0l Jeep I6 is 190 HP @ 4600 RPM and 235 Ft Lb of Torque @ 3200 RPM.

Some stuff like the 3900 is on there just because; it and the 3500 are technically GM 60° V6s, but since they're "High Value" engines, I'm not 100% sure on the Metric Bellhousing thing. I can further discount the 3900, because I don't think I want to get into active fuel management and variable cam timing voodoo anyway.

I put the the 3500, and N/A 3800s after the 4.0l, because while the 4.0l makes a little more torque at lower RPM, I know the GM engines are much more efficient, and with a decent intake and exhaust will match or surpass those stock 4.0l numbers.

From the research I've done, I'm confident I could get a reliable "junk yard turbo" 2.5l to numbers comparable to the 3.4l/3100 V6 listed above. If I wanted to get silly, 505 offers a forged 2.9l stroker kit for the little 2.5l, it's a drop in the bucket at $1700. I could have a 4.8l LR4 engine and transmission in Muffin and running for that or less.

If you're going to pull the squirrels eventually, it only makes sense to force feed them until they explode first.

Turbocharging a 2.5 Wrangler is ridiculously easy compared to a lot of vehicles. Run an exhaust pipe under and up the passenger side and mount the turbo high on passenger side of engine bay, right next to the oil feed, and put a charge pipe right across the top of the engine to the throttle body and exhaust still goes down the same side. If all you want is stock 4.0 power levels it should be ludicrously simple and pretty reliable. As in, ~5-8psi, no intercooler, raising rate regulator only for fuel tuning, and maybe a zener diode on the map sensor line if the computer doesnt like seeing ~5v on that line. It takes very little for a turbo 2.5 to hit stock 4.0 power levels.

Dont know if you care, but probably all it takes for a turbo 2.5 to hit 300hp is good tuning on a nothing-special setup. If you put forged pistons in it (4 of which are still cheaper than a lot of used engines) and nothing else internally it's probably capable of over 400hp. Im open to being proven wrong but i doubt i am.

I would ignore the old iron-head 3.4 camaro engine. When hooked to a 3spd in a jeep it will still be depressing. I did a 2.8-3.4 swap on a friend's GMC Jimmy with a 700r4 and it is still... not great. I do like a lot of the other swap ideas but for simplicity's sake the turbo 2.5 is where it's at.

In reply to Vigo:

Stock rods have a tendency to get zig-zaggy, anecdotal evidence shows 8 psi is pretty much the threshold for stock parts, some claim 10 psi but they're tempting fate. Forged parts ain't cheap, there's not an off the shelf piston that doesn't require boring at least .030", and it's apparently next to impossible to buy just 4, since they come in sets of 6 (for the 4.0l folks). Forged rods aren't as spendy, if you don't get the H beams, but the readily available stuff comes in sets of 6 too.

Muffin has air conditioning and she's keeping it, so there's basically no room on the passenger side of the engine. I'm pretty sure I could shoe horn something between the intake manifold and driver side engine mount. That would allow for a simple-ish log manifold. Otherwise, there's acres of real estate between the the electric radiator fan and pulleys.

Original brain storming of turbo 2.5l included air-water intercooler and piggy back Megasquirt, Muffin's OBDII ain't as easy to fool as the YJs.

Figuring the price of pistons, rods, machine work, the fact that I'd have to pull the engine anyway, I quickly decided a "built" 2.5l was silly, when I could have any number of reliable stock engines with equal or greater power for less money.

Even so, the novelty of keeping the 2.5l that everyone hates, and making it do what I want has great appeal. Just sticking a turbo and tune on the 2.5l with 6-8 psi, and being content with stock 4.0l-esque power; that's something I might be able to be content with, for a while.

• Lee

In for the win. Muffin lives again!

I heart this build, especially the detailed writeup and images!

In reply to Sky_Render:

Thanks! I read the stuff I write, and sometimes think maybe I should dial it back. SWMBO says I tend to keep on talking about things that interest me long after whoever prompted the the conversation quits listening/caring. Apparently I don't notice the social cues that they quit caring. When I see the walls of text I tend to write about Jeep stuff, I think she might be right. Yikes! Don't tell her that though.

In other news, I've done absolutely nothing to Muffin other than occasionally drive around town since the last update.

I have a tentative game plan for Muffin's eventual Winter Transformation, hopefully she will emerge this Spring with a whole new attitude. Those hoping for keeping the 2.5l can go ahead and change the channel now, after talking it over with a lot of folks, whether or not they listened, I've picked a path, and think it's the "right" one.

Nothing's going to happen for the next couple months at least, maybe some parts gathering.

I've got the Volvo monopolizing the garage right now, its starter replacement was a saga of its own, and then morphed into a PCV, and A/C refresh, with a dash of A/C compressor clutch removal and shimming, and motor mount replacement too. It's Fall, so it makes sense to finally be repairing the A/C now right?

After that, SWMBO's brother's XJ we drug home a few weeks ago is getting a compete overhaul of the suspension and steering, plus fluids, filters, tune-up, and some rust repair. Why do we keep dragging rusty XJs from Missouri down here to work on?

Then when his XJ is done, SWMBO's XJ is getting a similar treatment.

Then when all of that's done I've got big plans for Muffin.

Stay tuned, but don't hold your breath for updates.

• Lee

I normally wouldn't care much about a wrangler build thread, but your posts are really well done. This is a thread I always check to see your progress, and really enjoy the transformation. Makes me wish I had a wrangler sitting under a barn waiting for love.

This is GRM, so I'm going to just assume you're putting in a Mazda rotary or a Jaguar V12.

I remember a guy posting on Turbo-mopar.com (where i spend most of my forum time) about his turbo'd 2.5 Wrangler running a 14.9 1/4 mile at 8 psi. That's significantly better than stock 4.0 performance, and it wasn't anything special as far as parts.

Im sure whatever you're doing involves shooting higher than that, or it wouldn't justify the extra effort. Coming back to this thread, i noticed you didnt put the fwd LS engine that bolts to your trans on the list. Is it a price thing? Starter issues? Or just overlooked?

In reply to Vigo:

I had already discounted it in the "Coffee Talk" post above, before I made the list.

Lee said: I don't think there's a point in looking at the LS4, might as well get a 4.8l or 5.3l and trans from a 4x4 truck if I want LSX power, which leads me to the next option...

The hang up is the transmission, I won't be satisfied with the gearing that the 30RH offers if I keep it. If I'm not keeping the 30RH, then that opens the door to pretty much anything. I'm not doing anything that hasn't already been done, but I will be doing it my way.

Parts gathering has already begun.

I'm not scraping the 2.5l, it's just that much more motivation to build the "restomod" CJ-2A or 3A I've always wanted.

• Lee

Oops! Goes to show both my poor memory and general laziness in not re-reading. I agree with your reasoning on going with a truck motor/trans instead, though. 3spds pretty much suck. I am very familiar with their blech-ness because of my relationship with 80s fwd dodges.

Ive hung around with some old-timers who even defend 2spd powerglides as a street car trans, which doesnt make any damn sense.. you have one gear that cant accelerate hard and one gear that sucks on the highway. Where the hell does that leave you?!

As a future Wrangler owner i'll of course be interested in whatever you're about to do.