Project Ugly Horse

Keith Tanner wrote: Ford Falcon. Mated to a 6-speed auto, alas. Bryce - it's almost going to have to be an OE PCM. I don't know Ford hardware the way I know GM hardware, but the GM computers are so thoroughly broken into they might as well be aftermarket - but they have OE-grade operating systems and control a lot more than a MS with a bunch of add-on boxes would. Standalone may not be a big problem, the PCM will probably be able to run the engine without too many helper boxes. After all, you're asking it to do a subset of its usual role. Putting an older/different engine in a new car is a different and harder challenge, as a lot of the subsystems require that communication. But Zach's Mustang is from a simpler time, when you didn't need computers to run the windows. I doubt Ford set Zach up to fail with this engine. They know it's possible. And I'm pretty sure I've heard rumors of an upcoming Ecoboost 4-cylinder Mustang somewhere, this really would be a clever way to introduce the idea. Alfadriver, where are you? Want to weigh in on this?

I just saw the thread, that's where. Feel free to shoot me an actual e-mail for future reference.

DI is tough regardless of who it's coming from- one has to correctly time the fuel pump to make it work (with VCT for most engines), deal with the totally different injector type (65V instead of 12), and make sure you are fully sequential. that's just the DI part. Then add the throttle, cam, etc, it can be a bear with all aftermarket stuff.

So, yes, it will have to be an OEM PCM. But not really from a Focus- perhaps the same part, but with a substantial part of it missing, or, more correctly, not looking for other stuff. There have been so many rumors of a crate version of this, I suspect it will have to be a programmed ECU to JUST run the engine and nothing else. It's not that hard, with the right hardware to do it.

I'll now have to check the blog out.

(as for the later Ecoboost Mustang, google it)

Anybody taking bets how long it is until the next update? I'm guessing the focus will be on mounting/mechanical adaptation for a while, hoping for some magical ECU to fall from heaven...

Bryce

I don't care for the guy's writing, but the project looks cool! Hopefully he can pull it off.

It seems the author/project owner has taken a change of jobs to Road and Track:

http://www.roadandtrack.com/features/web-originals/features-web-originals-project-ugly-horse-part-10

I check for updates every month or so hoping he has some magical ECU solution, but alas, no updates on engine management yet.

Bryce

Congrats to him on the new gig, but now I've got no RSS feed to find out if/when he makes progress

The 2015 Mustang's 2.3T ought to help him along...

You can follow him on twitter and see when he posts updates...

https://twitter.com/Z_Bowman/status/373090531170979842

Any idea if this project is still a project or is it a miscarriage? Keith? You said it was a friend and I was really interested in the build...which seemingly stopped.

Bryce

"Full Disclosure: Ford donated the EcoBoost 2.0-liter four-cylinder engine to this project free of charge with the understanding that doing so will not influence either my views of the engine or the company's products. Likewise, Maximum Motorsports and other partners have lent technical assistance and parts at a discount."

So much for the Grass Roots aspect of this one. Sounds like the Big Boys are now just throwing parts at him for a free ad/write up in Road & Track. Anyone worrying about the injection management system needn't be concerned any longer, betcha that something materializes just in time for that installment.

Reminds me of all those reality automobile build shows where E36 M3 just rolls in on a fork lift, where free mills appear in Tupperware containers and come with a support staff to take care of the engine mapping.

I have to head on out and hit something with a sledge in my engine bay 'cause the crap that I bought at the junk yard won't fit unless I do.

Not bothering with this tread again . . .

In reply to TeamEvil:

I guess I'm a glass half full kind of guy. I thought that if Ford helped this guy come up with a solution for running that engine in that car, the rest of the world would then be able to duplicate that setup. Sure, I wouldn't get a free engine and crossmember like Joe Carblogger, but I can buy junkyard engines and weld tubes together pretty well so I don't need that stuff. However, I'm horrible at hacking computers relative to what a project like this requires and I'd love to be able to have a hacked direct injection, throttle by wire, variable cam fuel injection controller accessible without spending the price of a new car on a high dollar aftermarket ECU.

The catch is that I was hoping for this magical Ford Motorsports ECU that doesn't exist to materialize at some point, and it hasn't...which isn't a good sign, as that means Ford Motorsports pushed him out of the plane without a parachute.

Bryce

I thought on the Ford Coyote motors you could order a crate version that shipped with an ECU devoid of the antitheft stuff. Then you'd just treat it like any other (horrendously massive DOHC) crate V8.

Maybe they've got a similar thing on the burner for this one? I haven't heard from Zach on the project in awhile but he's got a Twitter account going that seems to be updating regularly as he writes new articles. I'd rather not bug him about this if it's becoming a pain in the neck though.

edit: Looks like Ford Racing Parts has the following to say about the 2.0L EcoBoost crate:

Ford said: NOTE; Currently engine requires stand alone aftermarket engine controller and custom engine calibration to function

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22999

Maybe it's not ready yet... Then again, Maximum might have some contacts at Ford that will let them reflash an off-the-shelf ECU with antitheft disabling stuff. I know that's what Audi does for their TTRS race car. Just spitballing at this point until we hear more from Zach.

In case you all missed it, this project got an update last week. Glad to see it is still progressing!

www.roadandtrack.com/features/web-originals/project-ugly-horse-part-xi

Yup, there have been a few updates. The project got to the stage where it was research and talking to people and saving up money for new parts. That doesn't make for snappy updates, but it's part of the deal. On a high profile project, people assume that three weeks without an update means abject failure instead of just "real life got in the way but I may have figured out a way to run this thing if this lead follows through".

This is NOT a "free parts from heaven" reality show build. Zach is honestly building this car on jackstands in his home garage in his free time. Yes, he got an interesting engine for free. I suspect he's got a couple of phone numbers of guys who know interesting things, and he managed to get Maximum Motorsports interested enough in the concept that they're using him as a guinea pig. If you've ever been in that position, you know that it's not all sweetness and light. Instead, it sometimes means you wait for months and then the parts don't fit. Then you send the parts back and hopefully it'll be good next time. He's also not getting all this for free - that engine came with some significant costs.

I know that the shiny new k-member he got in the mail, umm, didn't quite work out as planned. You can get a hint if you look at the last picture in the latest update. Hint, look at the strut mounts. Befriend him on Facebook, you'll learn a lot more of what's going on in the background between the R&T updates. TeamEvil, if you don't bother to follow any more, you'll miss out. Your loss.

Well, we may have a solution to the engine management question. Zach just posted this to Facebook.

TeamEvil wrote: "Well, we may have a solution to the engine management question." I KNEW it ! ! ! So much for specialized parts not falling out of the sky. This "build" is bullE36 M3.

Who cares? It's getting Ford a lot of publicity, why wouldn't they want it to succeed?

There is still some engineering going on there that a lot of us couldn't do. Why does it matter who is footing the bill?

Did you not see the previous discussion that said it would pretty much HAVE to be an OE controller? And how long ago was that? Poof, no.

Check this out. Not a custom part falling from the sky, you can get one of your own. BTW, I found that catalog entry in about 25 seconds by googling "ecoboost control pack" instead of frothing at the mouth about unfair this and reality tv show that.

http://www.fordracingparts.com/parts/part_details.asp?PartKeyField=22998

I don't know who paid for this part. It may very well have been Zach, it may not have. But it's a specialized part that's available to anyone, so what does it matter if it's specialized?

I get crap from people all the time because I have access to special tools and special knowledge, etc. I've been called a ringer when taking on $80,000 cars with something I built in my garage. Sometimes, jealousy blinds people. How do you get access to people with more knowledge? You earn it. You make contacts, you ask questions, you look for what's possible instead of what's going to stop you. Do you really think that the jackstands in my garage are special tools compared to yours? Don't make assumptions, you can do a lot with the basic tools we all have.

This is still a GRM-sized build. Sure, maybe it's not being done for the price of a luxurious Taco Bell combo meal. But it's still well within the reach of a number of folks. So far, he's into the project (assuming full retail) about as far as I'm into my LS1-powered MGB. And that sure as hell was a grassroots build.

I'm laughing at the idea that the build sucks because the Ecu cost almost as much as a challenge car.

Wonder if TeamEvil followed Ze Escort Of Doom when I was actually thrashing on it.

Sour grapes.

Pricy, fine. I'm over the moon that there's a part number for an Ecoboost ECU. That's the best news I've heard in a while. It was never my expectation that the builder was going to sit down with a soldering iron and a book about direct injection management and build an ECU for the cost of a few burgers.

MS can't do it yet. Now at least there's another part to analyze for folks who want to pursue a cheaper non-OEM version of a DI ECU. I don't think that's going to be trivial, but this constitutes a step closer, a bit more info.

There's nothing else really earth-shattering about this build. It's dandy, and I'm enjoying it, but it always hinged on someone with serious resources deciding to produce a standalone for this engine. I really don't care who footed the $1899.

I'm sorry but if someone from Chrysler called me and said "we'll send you a new tigershark engine for your project" I'd be all over that like white on rice. Just because he has partners supplying him with parts doesn't mean it automagically turns to a shop build.

My point is that I don't need special tools, and any special knowledge I have I acquired. The whole "ringer" thing come from those who can't be bothered to put in the effort to develop the skills or who don't think you can fabricate without a CNC mill. They're the same people who don't believe that the grm Challenge cars were really built for $2014 because they can't find an identical car on their local craigslist. I've done three major car builds from the shell up on jack stands in my garage without any special tools. A welder, Sawzall, a hammer and pry bars. Ringer, my ass. It's a misperception. Go through my MG build diary and find the special tool. Same with the Locost.

And btw, pay attention. I'm not building this car.

$1899 for an ecu and OE-quality wiring harness is a pretty good price. Take a look around. And remember that the internet is only ONE possible resource. Other than being full of bad info, it's no different than asking questions and following leads via networking. Most people don't try to get information from the source, but it's out there. Want info from ford? Have you ever tried? There's no secret code word. The internet has made some info very accessible, but it's also made people very lazy when it comes to research.

Not every build has to be made out of old washing machine parts and pieces of stair railing. This is still an interesting build because it's a glimpse into what we'll be using in the future as DI becomes the norm. The car is an unexpected platform, and there will be some challenging problems to solve. So chill out about the fact that someone is willing to spend more time and money on a car than you are, and maybe you'll learn something you can use someday. Maybe it'll help you become a ringer.

TeamEvil wrote: Not bothering with this tread again . . .

You posted ^this and then afterwards you made three more posts bitching that this isn't GRM enough for you. I'm sorry you feel that way, don't let the door hit you on the way out. The rest of us would like to see how this plays out.