R63 AMG The Unicorn of my Destruction

Guido Nordheim was the guy who screwed mine together. I don't think any of this is his fault, but I took him off my Christmas card list this past year. I was feeling grumpy.

In reply to mazdeuce:

He wanted to help you out

Now you can put your own nameplate on that one!

mazdeuce wrote: The lifter bucket thingies are all one piece. They sit upon the valves and are mushed by the cam. All of the hydraulic adjusting must be internal to the little guys. Very simple in a MB sort of way. Edit: this is a picture of the bottom. If you push on that little button in the middle (which rests in the valve stem) you can feel it move up and down. The oil comes in on the side. It really is compact and clever.

Looks like a camshaft follower. A set for a TDI V10 is about $370 - the camshafts are over $800 each. And there's four of them. A set of 8 followers for my ALH TDI 4-banger is $160 - including the camshaft (the ALH engine only has one). The ALH is kinda like the SBC of German diesel engines. ID Parts.com camshaft stuff.

Now I don't feel so bad for not knowing exactly what to call them.
For what it's worth, the Mercedes parts catalog simply calls them lifters. I feel like there is a very German "they lift the valves, they are lifters!" answer there.

If the cam followers are worn, so is the cam. Do not reuse these worn parts.

This is a "while you are in there" repair. And actually a stroke of luck as once that type of wear starts it turns to catastrophic rapidly! The debris from that kind of failure goes through the whole motor and spoils it. Good early catch!

I don't think the followers are 'worn' so much as 'that was about to be bad' The one I showed was by far the worst and I spent a couple of minutes playing with the light so the imperfections could be seen. I'll look at it more today and pull out the cam. Cams are $550 each. And there are four.

bentwrench wrote: If the cam followers are worn, so is the cam. Do not reuse these worn parts. This is a "while you are in there" repair. And actually a stroke of luck as once that type of wear starts it turns to catastrophic rapidly! The debris from that kind of failure goes through the whole motor and spoils it. Good early catch!

My understanding, which isn't much, is that the lifters or tappets are designed to be the wear item vs. the cam itself as the cost of the lifters is much less than a cam. Btw, I think the terminology for lifters or tappets depends on the country. I believe in England they are referred to (or were when they had an auto industry) as tappets. My TR6 therefore has tappets, but lifters is equally interchangeable.

The cam in question for that lifter is driver's side exhaust. This is that cam. No visible signs of wear at all and all of the lobes measure to less than 0.001 different, keeping in mind that's about as close as I can get with my crappy caliper trying to measure round things. I acknowledge that spinning them and using a run-out gauge would be best, but I don't think I have enough reason to resort to that. The duration on the cams is such that they're pretty darn pointy (in the technical sense of pointy) and any wear at the peak should show up quickly, and I don't see it.

I believe camshaft wear is usually measured with a dial indicator with the camshaft mounted in the head. With the indicator "zero'd" on the non-lift side of the lobe, you rotate the cam 180 degrees and measure the lift, which should match the cam spec.

On most engines, replacing one means replacing the other. I'm not sure I'd consider this a true "while we're in there" kind of job when the parts are over $2500. Unless you find some crazy amount of wear, I'd reassemble these parts. Maybe with a bit of assembly lube to keep things smooth until oil starts flowing again.

Replacing the lifters is standard procedure on these whenever the cams come off according to the tech. The initial parts list had them listed. Lifters but not cams. I was hoping I'd look at them and say 'they look brand new! It'll be fine!' but that's not the case. Some of them have spent at least some time not rotating properly.

Cams are hardened steel. Lifters are not.

In reply to mazdeuce:

OK. In that case, replace them. Sometimes it's hard to get from "American V8 thinking" where the cam and lifters are replaced as a set.

I've had a couple of friends message me this morning all excited about Tim's post and Mercedes PR.
"Have they called yet!"
And it occurs to me the someone might have to read this thread as part of their job. Probably some 19 year old college student who is amazingly excited about their spring internship. This is their first real week of work. Bright eyed and hoping to learn the ropes of high end corporate PR. They get to work this morning and there is an email "Please read and summarize Unicorn of my Destruction and provides summary by the end of the day."
If that's even close true, I deeply apologize for today. Work isn't always like this, I promise.

Ian F wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: OK. In that case, replace them. Sometimes it's hard to get from "American V8 thinking" where the cam and lifters are replaced as a set.

Even then, that only applies to flat tappet stuff. On roller cam stuff, it's fine to put new lifters on an existing cam if the cam isn't worn or damaged.

I first saw this listed on MSN.com (01_13). When a 'V' was mentioned, I was hooked. Mine, a 2010 manual trans/recaros experienced a similar fate (front end/engine on the floor)while awaiting a new bullet(warranty-long story). I commend you for your tenacity(understanding spouse )and will follow till the starter whirls. Oh btw I think were kinda neighbors Decker Prairie/Tomball. Question, could the ECM have been kept in a coma with the old 9volt on a pigtail in the cigarette lighter port?

In reply to 759NRNG:

Another local V owner! There were three wagons out at the last autocprss and two new ATS-V's. It's fun to have the dealer encourage you to go play. I'm north of Porter so we're basically neighbors from a Houston standpoint. There is actually a backup battery on these that has two functions. The primary function is to be able to put the transmission in park if the main battery fails. The second is to keep the brain in a state of suspended animation when you or the dealer disconnects the main battery. How long does it last? We shall see.......

rslifkin wrote:

Ian F wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: OK. In that case, replace them. Sometimes it's hard to get from "American V8 thinking" where the cam and lifters are replaced as a set.

Even then, that only applies to flat tappet stuff. On roller cam stuff, it's fine to put new lifters on an existing cam if the cam isn't worn or damaged.

And that only on pushrod engines. You can swap cams and/or lifters (I've always been taught that followers is shorthand for finger followers, which this engine doesn't have) with no issue on an OHC because the loads are so low that wear or hardening is a non issue.

Just a few minutes to work today. I thought I'd clean a valve cover since I pulled that box out this morning. It's not perfect. The toothbrush won't reach everywhere and the little paintbrush I have is too soft. I'll try to grab something when I'm out tomorrow.
Whoever engineered these valve covers engineered the crap out of them. They're an amazingly complex piece. Strengthening ribs and screw bosses for the coils and a big lip to slide the cable tie holders on and just a tremendous amount of thinking involved. For a valve cover. I hope whoever designed this has one hanging on their wall, they should be proud of it.

mazdeuce wrote: Also the block and heads have this nice thin layer of black stuff that used to be stuck to the head gasket. It'll come off with a fingernail, but is there an easier and better way to clean the surface than spending hours picking at it?

I had trouble getting gasket material off of a BMW engine block, and tried a bunch of different things. What worked best was an old plastic electrical box cover. The plastic was very hard, and had a blunt edge that just knocked stuff loose from the aluminum face of the block. It was nothing short of amazing how well it worked. It earned a permanent spot in my toolbox.

BTW, I've read this entire thread, and love the whole thing. I had read a few articles on GRM before, but didn't sign up until this. It sucks that you got one of the R63 lemons, and sucks that MB didn't step up as they should, but the way you just dove in & got stuff done is more than admirable. Keep up the great work. We're pulling for ya!

The kitchen needs a new switch plate now, but you're right! Thanks!

In reply to mazdeuce:

Wait a minute! We went over that cover plate in the grosh thread. Put another one on asap before little fingers get zapped! Haha

I think you'll probably be ok with just lifters, especially if the cam is hardened. I'd be inclined to drown them in cam assembly/break in lube on installation and get a UOA on the next few oil changes just for good measure though.

BrokenYugo wrote: I think you'll probably be ok with just lifters, especially if the cam is hardened. I'd be inclined to drown them in cam assembly/break in lube on installation and get UOA on the next few oil changes just for good measure though.

I was going to ask about assembly lube for the cams. They don't use any bearings which I thought was kind of interesting and terrifying. If something goes wrong it eats the whole head.

dculberson wrote: In reply to mazdeuce: Wait a minute! We went over that cover plate in the grosh thread. Put another one on asap before little fingers get zapped! Haha

Dammit! Fine, but isn't is a good thing that I didn't replace the switch plate yet? It's the last old one in the house, and you guys thought I was just being cheap.

Everyone here never ceases to amaze me. It makes me feel irresponsible that I'm not documenting my adventures in E39 town; I literally used the cover plate trick last week on my water pump mating surfaces!