Running a cheap Boxster, what could possibly go wrong?

Sounds about how I felt when Ir ealized my $5k boxster S was worthless. (oil in coolant).  I spent about 1k in parts and eventually called up EBS Racing. Who informed me of the rebuild costs "IF" everything was good when we took it apart and found nothing major.  Major being Chunks in cylinder walls, cracked heads, etc...  I found a guy doing spec boxster racing that had an S motor and was about to buy it, then realized with 3 small kids i just did not want a project car that i needed to sink money into like that.

I drove dad's NC Miata last week and it was pretty damn close to the boxster feel but enough off that it has me craving a boxster again.  I love my boss so damn much with all the crazy gear on it.  but that lightweight low center of gravity cannot be faked in the huge car.  Luckily for the Boss car prices are so nuts right now that I have zero interest in trying to fund what should be a 30k boxster. (non M96 so 2008 plus IIRC).  

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :

What are your thoughts of changing it with the LN Vs stock?

I think that LN has the best products for the IMS bearing. I think that they are overpriced. I think that with manual transmission, the stock IMS bearing should be changed out with the clutch and with the Tiptronic, it's a good idea to do while you are in there. Less worry to own/drive and easier to sell.

With $5,000 cars that had $1,500 engines a few years back it made less sense to me. Now it's more like $10,000 - $15,000 cars with $3,000 engines.

So this is how I see the situation.  I bought an engine with a free car attached back in 2016.  When I got the car it had just over 70K miles, I have the paperwork that the engine was changed by Porsche as a courtesy warranty claim (don't know if it was cyl chucking or IMS bearing failure) at just over 50K miles.  The car wasn't / isn't great, but it was a killer deal at the time and you would easily have spent $5K on a 20k mile M96 at that time.

Now with the increase in value, it's probably still only a $5-6K car max. as it's now six years older, 100K miles, still auto, but values are nuts right now.  But it's going to cost me $5K+to get there.  Or I can sell it as an engine donor for probably $1,500-2,500. I may get more if I stripped it down, but I have no time or desire to do that.

IF I punt and sell it.  First I've got to retrieve it, which will still cost some $$'s.  Then I need to get rid of it.  That will leave me with no car and a couple of grand in my pocket.  The problem is the cars I'm interested in (991/Aston/XKR) are all currently just as over valued as everything else.  I figure I drop $4, 5, or 6k to fix it, I then get to use it for a few years, still have a cheap salable car, then hopefully what I want will have become more affordable etc.  

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

• if engine is out now, ask shop what the engine is worth to them.
• take car home without drivetrain.
• Splice in LS4/4T80.
• Win.

In reply to AngryCorvair (Forum Supporter) :

LOL.

Nope, I realize you were almost joking, but there are other good reasons not to do this. 

• I've finally learned to be honest with myself on my time, skills etc. at my current rate of work a project like that would be completed soon after the sun turns super nova.
• Some of the stuff they've already uncovered are issues I caused, even with Jeff, Tom, and others looking over my shoulder at times. 
• I've no plans of ever taking an engine out of any car again, let alone an engine swap. 
• A large part of the attraction of Porsche's is the flat six engine sound.  I don't care that my measly little 2.5L only makes 201hpand 181lb/ft, but it sounds soooooo sooooo good.  Vs a Chubby V8 which sounds like ass.
• Even without the engine swap, the trans is still fubared (again) so it would still need replacing/rebuilding.  And before you suggest swapping to manual, that was discussed pages and pages ago when it first broke.  While anything is theoretically possible, the basics for swapping a Boxster from auto to manual are basically: 1. Totally disassemble the car to a bare chassis. 2. Swap in correct pedel box. 3. replace dash, shifter, ECUs (plural), change cooling circuits, change shifter cables, a tone of stuff I've forgotten 4. rebuild car from ground up. 5. Set it on fire as I've berkeleyed up a million other things.  Actually for half the money I'd just get a different, newer, manual Boxster S, which still only has two seats, but at least it would run and not sound like ass with a chubby up it's butt.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I'd take a good long look at the condition of the convertible top before I spent any more on the rest of the car. That's a pretty expensive job in itself and I'd want to consider how many years the existing top has left in it. 

Woody (Forum Supportum) said:

In reply to Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) :

I'd take a good long look at the condition of the convertible top before I spent any more on the rest of the car. That's a pretty expensive job in itself and I'd want to consider how many years the existing top has left in it. 

I think he replaced it already. I tried looking back at the early part of the thread, but most of the picturese don't work anymore, so it's hard to follow all the work he's done.

Yes, I replaced the top with a new one, inc glass window.  It fits beautifully, but I've got some parts in the mechanism that I need to replace.  But that I'll do myself.  It's up and closed for now.  I'll find some pics tomorrow.  

Have you had an engine oil analysis done? Sometimes that's a good way to figure out if you should keep it or dump it. Being a low mileage motor I wouldn't expect anything, but it would be $30 well-spent.

In reply to dj06482 (Forum Supporter) :

Had one done previously.  I'm confident on the rest of the engine.  Thanks for looking out for me guys.

Wow, I am so sorry I was not able to fix this. ( Hangs head in shame and passes you a drink)

How can I help?

OK chaps. I'm currently in Maine on vacation. I've got an email from the shop, the trans is fixed but there is an intermittent no start issue caused by the built it Porsche immobilizer. I know what must've happened, if you go back a few years in this thread the interior got flooded and I was unaware. I stripped the whole interior and dried everything out. All electronic modules were placed on top of a dehumidifier and left for several weeks. Things have worked, but there is apparently evidence of corrosion, no big surprise.

so, a new module from Porsche is the equivalent of the debt of a small third world country. It would also require two new keys and programming, that's $500 alone.  Apparently I can get my existing one rebuild for an unknown amount and they can reuse my existing keys. Garage said bypassing it is possible, but strange things may happen with interior lights and functions.

any comments or advice? AAZCD, do you have a spare module? 99 base automatic Boxster. What would I have to do if I got a used module? Looking for, non-to expensive solutions. I have already paid more to have the trans removed rebuilt replaced and the LN engineering IMS bearing than I paid for the car. I need to stop hemorrhaging money soon. I just want to drive the damn thing.

All of the immobilzer sets that I have are for later years. Your least expensive best option is to have someone who knows how to transfer the data from your old immobilizer module to an undamaged one. There is a particular chip on the board that holds the data. If that data or the chip is installed on the same model number module everything should be fine. There are vendors on eBay that do it (not endorsing anyone, but here's some listings: https://www.ebay.com/itm/224061727029, https://www.ebay.com/itm/154110501170? ), ECU Doctors does it, and I know that on the 986Forum.com "Qmulus" has done it, but he may not still be active with it. I may have a compatible 'immobilzer box' if you need to source one.

You may find a set for a '99 Tiptronic on eBay that you can swap, but that's not optimal unless you have it programmed to your car's VIN and options - mostly only matters for dealership service and future key replacement. Example: https://www.ebay.com/itm/325223710270?  At a minimum, it must include the CLU/Immobilzer box plus the matching DME/ECU plus the transponder (Pill) from inside the matching key fob.

In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks. What do you know about removing it or bypassing it, at least temporarily. This looks like it might be another 2K on the bill otherwise.

Ugh. Wonky 90s German electronics strike again!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

In reply to AAZCD-Jon (Forum Supporter) :

Thanks. What do you know about removing it or bypassing it, at least temporarily. This looks like it might be another 2K on the bill otherwise.

I don't know much. Besides the immobilizer,  the module under the seat controls locking,  alarm, and some window functions. Corrosion and damage is likely to effect the other systems eventually if it isn't already.

I have eliminated the immobilizer in Audi ECUs from the same period using software from nefmoto.com, but have not tried to adapt the set-up to Porsche yet. I don't know of anyone that will bypass or eliminate it for less cost than the other solutions.

Been really sorry to hear about all your problems with the Boxster. Despite AAZCD-Jon's abilities to have many Boxsters running even parts cars he gets running, it is stories like this one that have kept me away from them. Still want one (a Boxster S with a 6 speed please).  Hope you find the immobilizer and modules you need and can start driving this soon!

Adrian_Thompson (Forum Supporter) said:

... there is an intermittent no start issue caused by the built it Porsche immobilizer.

So, it still starts (usually) (half the time) (rarely)? When you dried it out initially, did you actually open the module up and clean the circuit board? There may just be a little bit of corrosion causing electrons to stray across some of the traces on the board. I've used alcohol and contact cleaner on lightly corroded boards that were having problems and so far they have not failed again. A pro will do a much more thorough job and have a guarantee, but if you just want to get it working at minimal cost, try cleaning it.

986 Forum thread with a good before and after pic of a cleaned board

...then again, if it is beyond your level of comfort you can mail the module to me and I'll see what I can do for the cost of shipping. You'll only be out the cost of mailing it and a week of time. I would only attempt a very low level of repair and not be de-soldering relays or doing any eeprom work. Just a fine cleaning of any corrosion visible with a magnifier.

I've used a toothbrush and isopropyl alcohol to clean circuit boards with corrosion on them. Not Porsche boards but it worked great. oh, and you don't need to be gentle with the toothbrush. Don't bear down in it but don't act like it's the Mona Lisa you're cleaning. Circuit boards are pretty sturdy. 

Iiitttt'sssss back!!!

Morning coffee run, wearing a Brumos shirt as well.

The whole saga later.

Your dog will stay in the foot well like that?  I don't put my golden retriever in the 911 because he'd be everywhere and would ruin the interior....

In reply to docwyte :

You think the interior can be further destroyed!!  The one saving grace of this car is it's daily beater level of finish.  I wouldn't leave her alone for more than 2 mins though.

OK, so it's back.  Long hard painful experience.  Scope creep happened, and if I'd known what the final bill would be at the end I would not have started and either sold it or parted it out.  Recap from before I punted and passed it on to people who actually know what their doing.  Trans died, I pulled the trans, had it rebuilt, refitted it then had endless issues.  At the end of the day it looks like much, not all but much of this was self inflicted in the end.  If I'd just paid to have it fixed in the first place I'd have saved myself a couple of $K, but i didn't.  Partly that was because it failed when I was unemployed, and even though I ended up with a better paying job, it still took some time to be settled again.

I don't want to go through all the gory details, but what they fixed was as follows:

• Shifter adjustment, the detent placement was off so it wasn't properly engaging drive
• Replace trans pan, it got dented when the E36 M3ty harbor fright trans jack wasn't up to the weight of the ZF auto and collapsed.  This may well have been the cause of many issues as it was apparently now touching the valve body.  The shop ate some on this as they first fitted a genuine ZF pan, that after three attempts still leaked, costing them a liter of pure unicorn blood that ZF uses for auto trans fluid each time, they then fitted a new one from Porsche and that cured the leak.
• R and R the trans again and have it rebuilt again, by the same guy who did it first time. In all the poor running, slipping, banging, and free revving it had got cooked, the new internal wiring loom I'd fitted was melted, cracked drum etc.
• Engine oil change while doing IMS bearing
• LN Engineering IMS bearing and install
• Immobilizer R&R plus sent out for rebuild

Final total was approx. $9.2K which hurts like hell as it's probably more than the car is worth.  But I now have a running, driving Boxster again.  Only done about 25-30 miles so far, but it feels perfect and the trans shifts better than it ever has before.  The work was done by Automotive Techniques in Novi Mi, and I am 100% happy with their service.  THe cost was not their issue, they checked every step of the way with me and I will have no trouble taking the car back in the future or recommending to others.  I looked long and hard before sending it them, and am happy with my choice.

Now I just need to fix the top mechanism, the air bag light, get some tires and set about some cosmetic issues.  But this car is going to be driven daily until the weather wont allow it and will be with us for years to come.  Are there better nicer cars out there I could have had for less than I've just spent?  Sure, but now I know the mechanicals are perfect, don't forget it has less than 50k miles on a new Porsche fatory engine, that's now got an LN IMS, and the trans is rebuilt and running perfectly.  The body may still be a bit rough, but it should be ready for daily duty for years to come.

What a saga. Sucks about the money, but at the end of the day, it's a sunk cost now. You can't get it back, so you might as well just drive and enjoy the car.

And I can help you with that airbag light, my new scan tool can fix those. Bring the car by to Tom's Detailing Shoppe and we'll clean it up and take care of that.

Yow!  Did they give you an idea of what the possible cost would be when you first dropped off the car?  This further cements my idea that it's just not worth keeping a car that has a bad auto tranny.  You're better off selling it and buying a completely different car...

Glad you have it back and are able to finally enjoy it!