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Erich
Erich UltraDork
1/28/18 3:02 p.m.

I'm still loving my V6. It's a very pleasant place to spend time. The thought of doing One Lap with it has crossed my mind...

Woody
Woody MegaDork
1/28/18 3:52 p.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:

In reply to Woody :

Fun fact! (all specs according to Honda online) 

2003 Accord Coupe:
Wheelbase - 105.1 in
Track - 61.1/61.2 in
Curb Weight - 2994lbs
160hp 161lb-ft

Wow, that car is substantially lighter than the next generation. A 2010 base coupe is 3204 lbs with the four and a stick. A base sedan with a stick is 3302 lbs. EX-L V6 coupe with a stick is 3401 lbs.

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/28/18 6:55 p.m.

In reply to Woody :

Also interesting, the 2009 Civic Si Sedan we're driving on One Lap is 2954 lbs with 197 hp and 139 lb-ft. This accord really isn't that far off the Civic, or at least where the Civic was stock. 

Back to thoughts about the Accord. The next two pictures show why I'm excited about having a four cylinder in a car designed to take a six. So. Much. Room. 

Seats fold down. I climbed in. I could sleep back there in a pinch though getting in and out would be a chore. 

I have to admit that I think the 7th gen Accord coupe is probably the least attractive of all the Accord coupes. It would have made a GREAT two door hatch, but they insisted on putting half a mile of bumper behind the rear wheel. While visually awkward, I threw a tape measure on it and there is right around 42 inches from the wheel centerline to the edge of the back bumper. That gives a lot of real estate for building a diffuser some day. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/28/18 7:12 p.m.

Since I couldn't sit still this afternoon I washed the car. It's been repainted. Not badly necessarily, but not well. You'll never see it in pictures or going by on track, but the cleaner it is the worse it looks. It needs stickers. Afer that it was into the garage to pop off the wheels and have a look around. It's nice to work with properly stiff cars where you can take both wheels off from a single jack point. 

Front suspension is usual good Honda. It needs new pads and rotors in the near future. Stock rotors are just over 11 inches and .93 inches thick, sliding single piston calipers. There are a number of different brake upgrades available. I need to sort though the options, but the One Lap Civic has 11.8 inch rotors and with proper pad material we were ok. I think new fluid, rotors, and proper pads would be sufficient for a track day. Maybe not TT levels of anger, but I think one could get by. The single advantage to staying with these brakes is that they fit under 15 inch wheels. 

Rear suspension is interesting. Five links. It would be interesting to see how it all models out. Rear drums are about 8.5 inches and the shoes are 1.5ish inches wide. If the fronts are adequate these probably are too though I doubt there is much in the way of performance shoes. Other Accords ran disks, so it's all Lego. The big questions start to revolve around proportioning valves and ABS and all that. 

Lastly, despite weighing almost 3k lbs, the Accord doesn't really feel heavy so far. Perhaps it's a density thing? The interior is roomy and the visibility is good. It feels like it should be ponderous but the short wheelbase and some sort of Honda suspension magic makes it drive smaller than it feels like it should be. It's about 200lbs lighter than the 911. 

The one thing the car is missing is a battery hold down. I'm probably going to swing by a junkyard this week and grab one. Not the best way to get one financially, but there are a bunch of Accords and similar vintage Acuras in stock and it will give me a chance to look them over and see what's what as far as brakes and rear bars are concerned. I would really like a bigger rear bar. 

Erich
Erich UltraDork
1/28/18 9:26 p.m.

A lot of guys go with the Acura RL brakes as an upgrade, but then you'd probably have to jump to at least 16" wheels.  

There was also a slightly larger 11.8" rotor for the V6 coupe on these, be careful you don't accidentally grab those. Yours should be 11.1"

759NRNG
759NRNG Dork
1/28/18 9:33 p.m.

Sometime I think your shots are taken to  provoke discourse on the presented subject matter....I give you oil Rorschach on the grosh floor............sure  hope thats' from the push mower..... wink otherwise this Accord needs to sit and wait while the 'P' car has a look see....fixed my shifter on the 'V' by the way...

Swiss44
Swiss44 New Reader
1/29/18 3:37 a.m.

This might be inspirational. 

 

OEM Accord on a diet

Woody
Woody MegaDork
1/29/18 6:34 a.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

How many miles are on this car? Does it still have its original clutch?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/29/18 7:16 a.m.

In reply to Woody :

111k. I can't see signs that any bolt on the bottom of the car has been moved. Ever. It has 15 years of light corrosion, but all the factory paint marks are still on the bolts. My guess is that the clutch is original. However, someone pulled the hood at some point. Was that part of painting it? Or did they do something significant with the motor? The carfax notes things like coolant flush and spark plug change, but doesn't note the repaint, so who knows what's missing. Mrs. Deuce is SURE that I'm going to find something horrible because I always seem to when I buy a car. 

FIYAPOWA
FIYAPOWA New Reader
1/29/18 7:58 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth said:


It's a project. It's supposed to be a project. It's going to take a while to get close to it's potential. I've got a couple kids that need to learn the ways of the clutch before I go crazy with the motor. We've got some rallycross to do before I go nuts with the suspension. It needs track wheels and tires, probably the bigger brakes from the TSX-S, maybe a rear bar? It's a backup One Lap car while we continue to develop the Civic. It's a car that I can autocross again. It should be comfortable and reliable enough that I can take it anywhere. When it's time, it will be the next One Lap car. Motor, aero, half cage, proper suspension. Years of time. Spend some money. Hoping for lots of driving and very little drama. 

This is probably one of the wisest things I've read on a build thread.  I usually see the "it's going to be awesome, next month" attitude of folks going into a project (I'm guilty of this myself!).  Looks like a great fun project, and a solid plan!

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/29/18 9:27 a.m.

In reply to 759NRNG :

If it leaked that much over a month I'd be worried. Over the course of four years? That's basically a leak free 911. 

In reply to Swiss44 :

It certainly gives me some thoughts. I'm going to be looking hard at what's necessary and what's not as the car develops. 8k miles over a week means AC and a radio are necessary, but rear speakers and power steering? Maybe not. There's certainly weight to be taken out. 

In reply to FIYAPOWA :

The hardest part right now is NOT spending money. I could drop the whole value of the car on wheels/tires/shocks in 20 minutes. It's easy to buy quality parts, it's hard to sort out value. 

Woody
Woody MegaDork
1/29/18 10:17 a.m.
mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/29/18 11:09 a.m.

In reply to Woody :

We've been tossing the idea around for a while but nobody pulled the trigger. Admittedly, it's hard to get excited about buying an Accord. 

collinskl1
collinskl1 Reader
1/29/18 11:57 a.m.

Re: K20 vs K24:

If my memory is correct, the K24A2 out of a 2006+ TSX flows just as good as the higher revving K20 versions. So with this version, there isn't a need for a frankenstein engine. Of course for you, this means pulling the stock Accord lump either way... but the K24 out and another K24 in might be easier than the slight niggles that come along with a frankenstein. Though that work is pretty well documented by now.

Fr3AkAzOiD
Fr3AkAzOiD Reader
1/29/18 7:49 p.m.

Good to see another grocery getter track car build.

My Malibu progress has been glacial so its good to read up on another's progress and ideas.

driver95
driver95 New Reader
1/30/18 7:54 a.m.

Hello Mazdeuce! I'm a relatively new to the grassroots world but I stumbled across your thread and thought I'd share some experience I've had with my 2003 Accord after 60k miles of my own, the car has 200k miles and has been to  2 Track Nights in America.

Clutch pedal bracket failure - Look out for this, it'll sound like "creaking" when releasing the clutch. The bracket cracked from fatigue on mine and the clutch would not fully disengage. It's a about 100 bucks new but you may be able to strengthen it if you catch it in time. Coincidentally my 200k clutch held up fine for both Track nights in America.

Leaky trunk - I'm from the land of rust and as a result the trunk likes to leak. The seam on the left and right side of the trunk is the culprit.

Battery - Probably doesn't apply to your build, but the larger V6 size (Group 35) battery will fit on the tray with no modification besides a new battery hold down, though I recommend upgrading at least the ground strap as well. This helped me as it gets cold here and I have the fully loaded model, 2003 navigation is the best!

There is a TSB for emissions reprogramming on these you would want to make sure is done if you need to pass emissions.

I think is goes without saying but religious oil changes, the timing chains will wear badly enough to through a code if you don't change every 3-5k miles (previous owner woes). Additionally, the oil control rings have been reported to go bad from the factory recommended interval (10k I think, but I don't see the service reminder very often). 

Also one thing to note is I read some of the K20 heads (don't remember which off hand) will not work with the standard accord k24 short block. There are differences with the pistons  that will interfere with the valves.

Finally, when I'm not running snow tires (hooray) I run 225's and have never had an issue. Car is stock height and standard brakes, but there seems to be plenty of room.

Hope this helped!

 

Vigo
Vigo UltimaDork
1/30/18 5:02 p.m.

Wow, that car is substantially lighter than the next generation. A 2010 base coupe is 3204 lbs with the four and a stick. A base sedan with a stick is 3302 lbs. EX-L V6 coupe with a stick is 3401 lbs.

It also feels appropriately not-huge unlike the next generation. I've driven the next gen (8th?) coupe with the bigger engine and manual and the too-big interior and slightly lower-rpm powerband of the larger engine took pretty much all of the enjoyment out of it in my personal opinion. It was sort of into Japanese Monte Carlo territory.  I really like this gen of accord because it doesn't feel big on the inside, just acceptably roomy (and attractive in my opinion). 'Just right'. 

 

One of the only things i consistently dislike about pretty much all modern Accords is the huge font on the speedometer. I feel vaguely insulted by it. I know the Accord is so mainstream it hurts but when the font is so big it's like they wanted to make sure granny could read it even if she forgot her bifocals, i feel a little shame by association. I for one am a discerning automotive enthusiast and i happen to be in this Accord intentionally and not as a result of some latent car-related disability as your giant font size seems to imply! HARUMPH.

red_stapler
red_stapler Dork
1/30/18 5:10 p.m.

So what do people do for ECUs on these since Hondata doesn't make one?  Swap to an RSX or something?

collinskl1 said:

Re: K20 vs K24:

If my memory is correct, the K24A2 out of a 2006+ TSX flows just as good as the higher revving K20 versions. So with this version, there isn't a need for a frankenstein engine. Of course for you, this means pulling the stock Accord lump either way... but the K24 out and another K24 in might be easier than the slight niggles that come along with a frankenstein. Though that work is pretty well documented by now.

It has bigger valves but it still isn't quite 300cfm like the A/A2 heads on the 2.0.

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
1/30/18 7:22 p.m.

i think the tsx is the ecu to build from iirc... being 2.4K and accord platform based?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/30/18 8:37 p.m.

In reply to driver95 :

Thanks for all of that. I think these have potential, maybe not as track killers, but certainly as competent enjoyable dual purpose cars. 

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/30/18 8:48 p.m.

In reply to sleepyhead :

You still have the TL, yes? Do you also have a caliper and a couple of spare minutes? I want to see what the wire diameter of the front and rear springs is. The TL is about 500lbs heavier than my Accord. Using TL springs should make it sit high, which gives me room to chop a coil, gain stiffness, and retain height. In theory. There are a LOT of base TL's in the junk yard. 

Which leads me to, a 17mm TL rear sway (stock 14mm) an overhead light with homelimk from a 2004 Odyssey, and the only battery hold down I could find. More thoughts about cruising the junkyard tomorrow. 

grover
grover Reader
1/30/18 8:51 p.m.

In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :

that popdown mirror is going to be suhweeeettttt

Woody
Woody MegaDork
1/30/18 8:57 p.m.

Is the entire Homelink system contained in that assembly?

mazdeuce - Seth
mazdeuce - Seth Mod Squad
1/30/18 9:12 p.m.

In reply to Woody :

Yup. Just needs power. The issue (for me) is that Liftmaster door and gate openers built after 2011 won't work with homelink without a $30 translater. Which I know now. sad 

sleepyhead
sleepyhead HalfDork
1/30/18 9:12 p.m.

yes, I still have the TL, having it is about the only reason I'm not freaking out about missing OLoA

and, yes, I do have calipers... 

I've got time now... but it's a bit dark, and I've already freaked out one of the neighbors with my flashlight while walking the dog.  We'll see how sleepy#2's nap goes tomorrow.

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