In reply to CanyonCarver750 :
Love it when other 6-6 owners end up here. Did you swap to the TL ecu? The lean codes are something a good number of guys that j32 swap report when they try to run it on the stock 3.0 ecu.
In reply to CanyonCarver750 :
Love it when other 6-6 owners end up here. Did you swap to the TL ecu? The lean codes are something a good number of guys that j32 swap report when they try to run it on the stock 3.0 ecu.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
Did not replace the ECU, though I may look into that. From what I've read it happens more at full throttle pulls, but mine happens even when just idling. I'm leaning towards something in either the PCV system or injectors. When it runs good, it's amazing.
Finally some build progress, after a looong delay where the car has just been sitting in the back corner of the warehouse at work for the last 2 months.
I spent a bunch of time thinking about and researching what I wanted to do with the clutch and flywheel. One of the things I read in my research is that the stock flywheel is stupid heavy. Something about spinning mass creating more inertia at highway speed leading to better gas mileage, at the expense of decreased engine response and more drivetrain power loss. I just love Honda engineers with this car. It seems to have been their mission to create the best chassis and drivetrain bones possible in a family sedan, and then do their absolute darndest to numb the crap out of it.
As I continued researching, I discovered that Aasco makes a single mass aluminum flywheel that only weighs around 12 lbs for 6 speed Accords and TL's. The stock dual mass flywheel weighs 32 lbs. I pulled the stock flywheel off my 3.0 Accord motor and it is indeed absurdly heavy. The lightweight flywheel will save 20lbs or so of rotating mass. Which will dramatically increase engine responsiveness, obviously.
The issue: new Aasco flywheels are $550. That's way beyond my budget. And I'd still need a clutch, and the cheapest OEM clutch is $180 new.
And then, several weeks ago, a setup popped up on facebook marketplace that made me do a triple take followed by frantic googling. An Aasco flywheel with around 1000 miles on it, combined with a full face stage 3 spec clutch, same mileage (aka just broken in). It is the best and most street friendly high torque clutch in existence for Accords and TL's. It's the same one used by Bobby Lane's 7th gen time attack Accord. And the best part, it replaces the stock self-adjusting preset clutch, which is a rather annoying bit of engineering.
The set came out of a j swapped Honda Civic; the guy completed the swap, installed the clutch, drove it less than 1000 miles and promptly wrecked the car. I made the guy send me a ton of pics to ensure I wasn't getting something that was worn out. Nope. This set really is barely used.
It's an $800 clutch and $550 flywheel. I got both for silly cheap. Still beyond my budget, so I sense some couch nights in my future. Worth it.
Clutch came in today.
The aluminum flywheel is actually 14 lbs. clutch and flywheel together are 28 lbs. Its a nice setup, the clutch friction disc is a lot more heavy duty than the stock one.
Also, I finished installing the EGR delete I fabbed a long time ago. When I tried to install it, I realized I did it wrong. Side intake hole that provides clean air to the EGR was in the wrong spot. So I split the aluminum pieces, re jb welded everything including filling in the hole with JB weld, and then re drilled it. Almost like frankenferrari guy but with JB weld...
I used the 2 nut trick to pull the studs, and then snagged a couple bolts from the local hardware instead of using studs.
An $5 eBay filter and a 1/2" rubber hose later, and it's working like a charm! It's actually quite surprising how much suction that little egr delete is pulling at idle. Lot of exhaust gases not dirtying up my intake track now.
I pulled my car out of storage and drove it for the last week. It's fast, but there's enough major issues where it's really not enjoyable to drive. Air is getting in the clutch line somewhere, I think it's the master cylinder. Front suspension is shot. Passenger side axle is shot. Tranny mounts are shot. Clutch is shot. Power steering is basically not working at all and idk what the deal is with that.
Anyway, I started pulling the engine today. Its not going back together until all these issues are taken care of.
I managed to justify buying a 2 ton engine hoist for my terminal as a decent alternative to a forklift. I had a good chuckle when I mentioned it to my boss and he was like 'wow what a good idea!' I mean, I'm not BSing, it will be useful to have at the terminal...
I'd have bought one of these! Looking forward to this build.
Well, the engine is out. Definitely easier the 2nd time around now that I know what I'm doing.
Work is thankfully still proceeding as usual; working for a critical industry certainly has its benefits. Still, I'm grounded to my home terminal, so there's been plenty of time to research and plan. Now that the engine is out, here is the list of things about to happen in the next few weeks:
* 2005 Acura RL cams and exhaust valve springs install. The cams are hollow with more lift and duration than OEM, and the exhaust valve springs are stiffer. For whatever reason the intake valve springs are the same between the j35a8 and j32a3, just exhaust valve springs are stiffer on the j35a8. I pulled 2 engines worth of exhaust valve springs from a junkyard on my last work trip and the junkyard didn't even charge me. 24 springs with retainers and keepers, all free. Not a bad score. I'll sell the other set.
* Ported runners install
* filling all transmission mounts with poly. I think I figured out a way to fill the lower tranny mounts with poly as well as the top one. I'm also going to do something with the passenger side engine mount; that one needs some stiffening as well.
* fill both compliance bushings with poly. Is that a bad idea? Maybe. It will certainly make the ride harsher. But it's basically free and my budget is seriously hurting after the rather impulsive clutch and flywheel purchase. Speaking of which
* install new for me clutch and flywheel.
* Fix the slave cylinder. I figured out why air is getting in the clutch line. The slave cylinder rubber boot has a pinhole leak. I have an old slave cylinder that I can't delete the check valve on because the locking ring is too corroded. But I may be able to swap the rubber boot. Worst case scenario I'll buy a new slave.
* new passenger side half shaft and axle. So, a new one is expensive (for my small budget). A manual transmission accord or TL is hard to find at a junkyard, so a used one is basically out of the question. According to most sources, the passenger side axle with the automatic transmission is different than the manual transmission one. But some guy who did a manual transmission swap on an auto Accord claimed that he reused both automatic axles and they worked fine. So I'm going to snag a passenger side axle and half shaft from a junkyard and try them out. Luckily I have an old and broken manual trans one from the initial swap that I can use for comparison.
* Exhaust. So I need an exhaust. Bad. My good buddy is in welding school and can help with custom fabrication. I need to take some measurements and figure out my plan of attack. I'm thinking of fabbing a true dual exhaust. I'm a bit worried about it sounding like garbage, but the flow of the stock exhaust is quite awful due to the j pipe design, and an aftermarket j pipe is stupid expensive for what it is, and exhaust flow is still doing a 180 from the back head to join with the front. I still want to run a Cat tho, and a resonator, and that will be an issue with a true dual (Need 2 of each) as well as the fact that it will be heavier.
*moog rear sway bar end links
* power steering fix. I may need a new steering rack. Haven't really had a chance to look at it but it's sure easier to mess with with the engine out.
so those are the big plans. If i can actually get all this done, in theory I'll have somewhere near 300hp at the wheels and be some coilovers and brake pads away from competitive autocross.
This whole virus thing has shut down work enough for me to make some progress on the car.
I installed the '05 Acura RL exhaust valve springs today, without removing the heads, and with no special tools. I did have a harbor freight valve spring compressor, but they do not work on Honda J series. Check out how close the valves are to the spark plug tubes and head walls:
I took no pictures after the rocker arms were removed, but you guys should get the picture.
I used the rope-in-the-spark-plug-hole trick to hold the valves in place, snagged some rare earth magnets from harbor freight and stuck them inside a socket, placed the socket over the keepers and hit the socket with a hammer. Works like a charm removing the keepers and thus the rest of the valve spring.
I could not figure out how to install the RL valve springs to save my life. I couldn't get the keepers to seat. I tried a bunch of different methods. But one I came up with myself ended up being the only one that worked. I used an 02 sensor socket, and a finger in the socket gap to push the keepers into their spot as I shoved down on the valve spring.
the real joy was when I dropped 2 keepers down the oil passages. I heard them rattling and banging all the way down. Just a wonderful sound. But, diy hackery to the rescue. I had an old toilet snake laying around, so I unwound the metal snake part, cut off the flared spring end so only the metal rope was left, filed the end of the metal rope flat so my rare earth magnet would stick nice and flat to the end of the snake, and then fed the snake down inside the oil passage. Both times it came back out with the wandering valve keeper stuck to the magnet. So I saved myself some major headache there.
Tomorrow is RL cam day, as well as ported runner install. I had to file down the intake manifold/runner gasket port openings yesterday, as the gasket is designed for OEM runners and manifold, not ported ones. I burned up my dremel porting the manifold a few months back so I used battery operated drill and a carbide Dremel bit. Not great. But it worked, albeit painfully slowly. I picked up some of that copper gasket spray to hopefully help with some of the imperfections in the gasket.
I also fixed the slave cylinder by swapping the boot from my old slave. I also swapped the slave internals while I was at it. Old slave was an OEM nissin unit and I just liked the way the internals looked better than the LUK replacement I've been running.
I also ordered a 2007 Acura TL-S rack and pinion. It is a quicker rack than my OEM accord rack, and should be a direct bolt on. I am quite curious to see how that affects the handling.
Quick note on the exhaust, which I was also able to investigate:
RV6 precats:
note the gasket on the bottom.
Now notice the same gasket on the stock j pipe: 
stock j pipe is 1.75" diameter. Precats are 2.25". Talk about flow restriction. So I definitely need to do something about that.
Number1Gaza said:the real joy was when I dropped 2 keepers down the oil passages. I heard them rattling and banging all the way down. Just a wonderful sound. But, diy hackery to the rescue. I had an old toilet snake laying around, so I unwound the metal snake part, cut off the flared spring end so only the metal rope was left, filed the end of the metal rope flat so my rare earth magnet would stick nice and flat to the end of the snake, and then fed the snake down inside the oil passage. Both times it came back out with the wandering valve keeper stuck to the magnet. So I saved myself some major headache there.
Well done!!
RL cams are installed. They are hollow and noticeably lighter than stock j32a3 cams which are solid. I used 20w-50 oil instead of assembly lube. Should be fine. That stuff is thick.
It was easy enough to install the cams, 100x easier with the engine out for sure. The timing belt needs to come off which is always annoying but it just needs to slide off the cam pulleys, doesn't need to be completely disconnected. I just set the engine to TDC, marked each side of the belt where the timing marks are with a marker, and then unbolted the cam sprockets. The new cams line up with a key inside the cam sprockets so as long as the cam sprockets are back at TDC after reinstallation and when reattaching the timing belt, everything is back in time.
But, wow what a pain reinstalling the exhaust rocker arms are on this car. They are spring loaded and the springs push the rockers out of position when they are unbolted. Intake rockers are unsprung and a piece of cake but there are 6 individual spring loaded rockers on the exhaust side and they all need to be pinched simultaneously down to their natural position in order for the bolts to line up. That's impossible with only one set of hands. After lots of headscratching, I came up with the idea to zip tie each pair of rocker arms together which pinches them away from the top of the cam journals and allows the bolts to line up. Cut the zip ties when the bolts are in most of the way and the rocker arms bounce to their natural position. Sorry for the lack of pics, I don't necessarily think about documentation when I'm knee deep in a problem and on a time crunch.
here's a pic of how close the valves are to the walls of the head and the spark plug tubes, with the rocker arms off: 
There really isn't any room to insert a traditional spring compressor. I've even seen a youtube vid where a guy zip tie compresses a valve spring down, and then cuts the ties once the keepers and retainers are installed. Stupid since the ties can break and then you have a spring flying at your face, but I was desperate enough yesterday to try it. There's no room to cut both zip ties.
That's my favorite kind of hot rodding!!
In reply to Vigo :
Thanks! Something that Seth noted when building the original Traccord: The Honda Accord family includes an absolutely absurd number of vehicles.
6th Gen Accords / 2nd Gen Acura TL / Acura CL / 7th Gen Accord / 1st gen Acura TSX / 3rd gen Acura TL all share the same suspension components and wheelbase width, and in v6 trim share versions of the same engine. Plus the Honda J is just in so many darn vehicles. The parts bin possibilities make any Accord build a junkyarder's dream.
It was always fun wandering through the JY and looking at/under everything with a Honda or Acura badge and figuring out what I could use. Neat platform for sure.
one thing to keep in mind with the quicker TL rack... it's fast enough that on 'AutoX' type courses, the pump can have trouble keeping up. at least, iirc, from reading on the acura boards a few years ago?
dunno if there's a fix for that. it's mainly in 'large deflection, fast transition' elements.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
How much quicker is the TL rack? And it it all TL's or just the S? The slow steering in my Accord is my biggest complaint.
In reply to sleepyhead the buffalo :
Thanks for the heads up! I'll have to watch for that with the new rack, but, I already have that problem actually. The steering seizes up at lock or when spinning the wheel hard. I attributed that to a crap reman pump that came with the car initially, but it hasn't gotten better since i swapped pumps. Also the steering is extremely unnaturally heavy at low speeds in general. I recently drove 2 other 7th gen's and that alerted me to how bad my steering is. I will be very curious to see how the new rack works out.
In reply to mazdeuce - Seth :
According to Honda spec charts, the Accord rack is 2.95 turns lock to lock and the TL is 2.80. Also, the rack got updated in 2007 for both the TL and TL-S, according to google; they share the same ratio. But the news releases made it sound like the TL-S rack has different sportier tuning? Could be the power steering pump, which on the TL-S has a variable assist feature where it reduces flow above 3000 rpm.
It's fun reading about this build! Glad you're out there making it work, when most people just say it can't be done (easily).
I have recently become aware of J-to-K swaps which have me keeping an eye out for a J35a8 for when the K24 in my CRV eats it.
In reply to sobe_death :
j35a8 in a crv would be pretty fun. Definitely look for one from an 05-08 RL. Lot of them starting to pop up at junkyards. In general the RL was pretty much a senior citizen car so lots of j35a8's floating around that haven't been real abused.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
That's what I'm eyeballing; they seem to be the easiest to integrate electrically and physically.
Poly engine and transmission mounts:
As I have mentioned before, the stock transmission mounts are garbage. Also, the side motor mount is torn and wiggles like a bobblehead.
I've done a lot of research on cheap poly solutions. 3M Windo Weld seems to be the go-to, but it's relatively expensive for what it is. Skipping my several days of research, what I ended up using is loctite PL 8x construction adhesive. Why? Well, here's some pictures of the motor mounts that i filled. Yes, I know they are ugly. 
those bottom transmission mounts don't really have gaps to fill in. It's more of an area that's designed to rock back and forth. I needed something that would bond really well. Construction adhesive is still poly based, but should bond quite a lot better than something like windo weld or the 2 part kit for motor mounts. Also, it's $6 for a tube.
the issue is that it's really stiff. I'm hoping i won't get too much in the way of vibration. Front and rear mounts are still stock so that may help, as will the fact that the Honda j series is just a smooth engine.
I also completely stripped my trunk today. At this point it's more of a race car than a DD so why pretend it's still a DD? All this stuff is re-installable anyway.
12 lbs removed.
Since the last update, I've made some progress. The engine is totally back together with ported runners installed.
But the rest of everything I've done has just uncovered more issues. I pulled the drivers side lower control arm planning to just fill the bushings with poly, but the bushings are all cracked and dry rotted. The passenger side lower control arm was also in bad shape, but one of the bushings seized to the bolt. Here's how seized it is: 
So I gotta cut that bolt off with a sawzall. I ordered a set of eBay control arm bushings. Probably need to fill those with poly when they come in.
I removed the transmission and the clutch. Flywheel and pressure plate were covered in burn marks so they were definitely on their way out, altho surprisingly the friction disc wasn't terrible. When I went to install the new for me lightweight flywheel and clutch tho, which are used, I realized that the lightweight flywheel friction disc is worn to the screws. Not good. Means the guy lied about it only having 1000 miles on it. So there's another $125 I'll need to come up with for a flywheel friction disc; luckily it is replaceable. The clutch friction disc and pressure plate surface look fine so that's good.
I also ordered 2 different throw out bearings and don't like either one. Guys have reported issues with the rotating part of the throw out bearing not rotating easily, and both of the one's I got (MRK and KOYO) seem like they don't want to spin. Stock one spins way easier, like night and day easier. I suppose I could order OEM but they are kind of expensive.
Anyway, not sure when I'll get the engine back in, but I am definitely watching my upgrade budget whither away on maintenance items.
In reply to Number1Gaza :
Koyo makes fantastic wheel bearings and are the OEM supplier for a lot of FWD Honda products....
so going OEM for the throwout bearing may not make any difference.... it may be identical to what you have now.
may be, i don't know exactly.. but i'd not be surprised if they supplied that bearing to Honda as well.
In reply to spacecadet:
Yeah Koyo is the supplier for a lot of OEM or equivalent pulley's on OEM or equivalent timing belt kits. They manufacture all the pulleys for the Aisin timing belt kit I used last year, and they are great quality.
Their throwout bearing is actually a different design than the OEM one tho. The rotating part of the throw out bearing can actually be pulled away from the rest of the bearing. It's pretty odd. It doesn't spin well at all. The MRK bearing is identical to the OEM one but the rotating bit (wish I knew the technical term for that) doesn't like to rotate. It rotates even more reluctantly than the KOYO bearing. In contrast, the OEM bearing spins like a top with one finger. Several people on forums and YouTube have attributed problems getting into gear to reluctantly spinning throwout bearings, and claim their issues went away when they swap to OEM. My options are to reuse the OEM one, which seems fine, or buy a new one from Honda.
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