Convert Rare Vintage Cars into Racers or Use Existing Supply?

Maybe this will spark a new discussion:

Andre … turn your GT6 into a race car? Say it isn’t so! We all love your car. Please keep it as it is. The world’s supply of roadworthy GT6s is rapidly diminishing. (Has anyone tried to find a decent GT6 Mk1 or Mk2 for sale lately?) Your car should be maintained as the cool, reliable long distance cruiser you created. It’s begging to run the New England 1000 or Barnstorming Maine or some other vintage road rally. If you must race, sell or preserve the GT6 and pick up a race prepped Spitfire instead. (For example, there’s a couple of hot Spitfire racers available in Connecticut on Hemmings on-line for about the same price you could get for the GT6. At least one of them races at Lime Rock and is truly a screamer. I’m sure there are others around). Also, would VARAC let you to run with the Ford gearbox or would you have to convert back to the Triumph box?

Andre's car is one specific example of the vintage race car dilemma, but it has implications on a broader scale. Any opinions?

Well I think that's a great question...and one that's been bouncing around in my head lately. I'd like to build a dedicated track car, but I would actually feel guilty stripping and tearing up a "vintage" car, not to mention using a desireable vintage car would surely cost more.

But I would rather not just buy an already built racecar. I'd like to use something unconventional that is not already on anybody's list of "vintage cars"...not sure what yet, though.

I struggled with issue for a number of years. I purchased a fully restored '65 Austin-Healey 3000 MkIII in the early '90's but always wanted to go vintage racing. The '65 was so well put together, paint, mechanicals, interior, etc. I couldn't bring myself to turn it into a vintage racer, though I certainly thought about it. The solution as you might expect was to search out an existing vintage racer of the same make. Maybe even one with a little period racing history. This was one of the best automotive decisions I've made.

Like others in this thread, I also struggle with this.

I also find it fascinating how many folks buy a racer to "restore" it back to stock. Goes right along with the racer folks who invariably buy a nice stocker to convert to racing.

Tractor folks are an interesting example of a group obsessed with stock. Go to a tractor show and you'll find row upon row of nearly identical restored Ford N's. It's downright boring.

A large part of it comes down to it's your car, do what you want with it. But above all, enjoy it.

Hmmm, interesting, I can't insert a picture using Chrome...

It was going to be a shot of a tractor show and a line of Massey's all looking the same (kinda).

In the Land Rover world the debate is the same, just different application - how much do you modify from stock? One guy in Connecticut builds beautiful Land Rovers using Mercedes diesel engines, Toyota real differentials, his own half shafts, power steering, and so on. The trucks are beautiful, practical, and even more bullet proof the the originals. But are they Land Rovers?

I, myself, debated whether to keep Rusty (my 65 Land Rover) stock or upgrade(?) to modern stuff. I did change the lump to a 2.5 diesel out of a Land Rover Defender, added parabolic springs, different wheels, and wider tires (tyres) then stock. Other than that it is all OEM - or Britpart replacements.

I did what I did because I wanted better fuel mileage, and a better ride and off-roadability. I guess it is the same argument for any classic - race car or practical DD.

I personally like to see car kept stock - if they are that way to start. However, I understand what people do and why. So as much as I don't like to see any classic heavily modified, like Foxtrapper said, "...it's your car..."

I’d be concerned that once the decision is made to go racing, it’s a one-way trip. Radical competition modifications escalate and before long the car is no longer roadworthy.

I wonder how many vintage race cars are converted back to street vehicles compared to going the other way?

Interesting indeed...

Having casually watched the progress of the Gt6 restoration, I would rather not see it be gutted into a race car. Start with another car or buy one already done.

Nick, you don't necessarily have to strip a car to take it on track, assuming you're talking about something like NASA HPDE track events. I run my Honda CRX at NASA events, and it still has the carpet, door panels, dash, passenger seat, etc. The way-back is gutted, but only because the previous owner did so. The suspension and brakes are beefed-up for track work, but the car is still comfortable on the street. The recipe could easily be duplicated on something older. (The CRX is 20 years old and has 200,000+ miles on it, for whatever it's worth.)

This is a great topic. It's hard to see something being torn into that is so beautiful. But let's be honest, when is the last time you saw a race prepped classic and didn't think it also was cool? Maybe it's the young blood in me.

A classic car in mint shape is awesome, a classic car in mint racing shape is even awesomer!! hehe

Both my Healeys are street legal. The vintage racer has a full interior and is not a striped down shell. I usually shake it down on the street after repairs and improvements. The neighbors always know when a race weekend is near.

Where I live right now, is just a few miles from the entrance to Memphis Motorsport Park and several times a year there are trucks/trailers that I pass with "vintage" drag racers on them and to say I want to cry when I see a nice Camaro or Mustang covered in decals and with huge slicks bulging from the rear wheelwells....

a few times a year I see the cars of the local chapter of the SCCA pass on their way to the MMP, usually it's just lightly modded street cars. But whetther it's older "Detroit iron" or vintage "furrin cars", I wish folks would think long and hard about modding...sometimes extensively, a car someone else wishes they could get their hands on. Several times a week I'm passed on the street by a car or two that was "scooped" up by some kid that felt a vintage Chevy looked SO much better on 20s or 22s. Where are these cars when I have some cash.

Sorry about the ramble.

The thing about old Mustang and Camaro drag cars is that most of the ones you see had already been made into drag racers long before they became "collector cars."

I remember reading muscle car mags and thinking nothing wrong about the profile of a heavily modded (caged, tubbed, blown & injected) '70 Hemi 'Cuda - a real one. But that was back in 1983.

Ian,

I agree, back in my high school muscle car days,(early 80's) Mopars were pretty much a throw away brand and if your Camaro or Mustang was stock, your were a loooooooooooooooserrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr.

Dougie

I have done both. Took my TR3 and turned it into a race car. Now, I'm building a GT6 for street use. It'll have the mods but be street drivible. Race preparing the TR3,for SCCA, was fun and I learned alot. However, after a while the car got to hard to drive on the street. Keep your car streetible.

Good question.

An ideal "classic" candidate for conversion to race car is a rubber bumper Midget like ~MY '78 Midget~. There's still plenty of them and they are sort of unloved and not particularly considered "classic".

But underneath (once you pitch the rubber battering rams), they are just a basic Spridget. The 1500 engine isn't great, but it's acceptable. An older style (and better) 1275 can easily be fitted. SVRA, VRG and other vintage clubs now accept the newer Spridgets, so it's about the cheapest way to go vintage racing.

I raced a '67 Sprite previously (until it got too beat up to fix and race). Honestly, at my amateur lever, the '78 doesn't feel much different from the more desirable '67. I've been racing the '78 for 6 years.....great fun!

I had a 76 Spitfire and it was always my goal to make it a race car one day. The car sat for years in my garage and I raced a formula car. When I wanted to change classes and start vintage racing, my old plan of converting the street spit into the track spit came to mind. After doing much research about what parts to buy and changes to make so it conforms to the sanctioning body rules, the clear choice was to buy a car that was already a race car and spend my time/money making improvements to it.

This plan has worked out well, I've spent the last few years racing not building. By looking at the changes previous owners have made from stock I see lots of areas where I would have made mistakes in my conversion process and some things I never would have thought about.

I've basically replaced a ton a parts on the race car, mostly for reliability. Many of the discarded parts are OK for the street, not so good for running at 10/10ths, went to restoring the street spit so now it's back on the road.

An added bonus is my wife and kids now like the street spitfire so much, I had to get another one for the street so there wouldn't be fights over who gets to drive it. My boys actually ask me what they can do on the "new" 72 spit to help get it running.

72 spit - $1500 old parts - free Having a wife who lets me buy another toy - Priceless

Last Friday I saw a TR-4 that some fella had turned into an electric, battery powered, vehicle. It looked like H E double hockey sticks. I was sick. No need to talk to the guy about it as he thought he had taken a piece of junk and turned into something novel. Well, it was novel and that's about it. Keep your GT-6 stock and buy a racer.

Vic