I know. What I'm really taking from this is it's best to not ask questions, but if you really have to, ask Per.
I know. What I'm really taking from this is it's best to not ask questions, but if you really have to, ask Per.
SVreX wrote:redzcstandardhatch wrote: oh whatever. your a ball of fun svI guess I'm sv. Strange. I make a comment, Per agrees completely with it, and I'm the bad guy. Oh well... sorry to ruin your fun. Hey Andy: I painted my chassis traffic yellow. Even though it can't really be seen, can I count it as a safety item? If the car ends up upside down, it will certainly be more visible, and therefore safer!
i completely support that logic. haha
How about wheelie/traction bars? Legal? Any specific rules sets they have to be built to?
GPDren wrote:wheels777 wrote: ....when taxes and brakes still counted.....Marty wrote: Oill/antifreeze/liquids do not count. spark plugs countI've reread the rules (again) and found no mention of the above comments. So I'm wondering how accurate they are? I know about the brakes not counting this year, but this is the first I've heard about taxes. I was also planning to include all liquids in my budget. This being my first year I'm starting to feel like there has been some clarification of certain things over the years that isn't published in the rules. Things like what's quoted above that repeat competitors have asked about and know but a newb like me is ignorantly budgeting. I hope no one takes this as complaining because I don't intend it that way. I'm just trying to get a full understanding of what's allowed/not allowed so I can maximize my budget, as I'm sure everyone else is.
The brake rule was, at least in part, in the 2009 rules. I can't find any mention of tax, but everyone keeps saying it isn't included. If it isn't, then is that for the car and any parts, or just the car?
camaroz1985 wrote:GPDren wrote:The brake rule was, at least in part, in the 2009 rules. I can't find any mention of tax, but everyone keeps saying it isn't included. If it isn't, then is that for the car and any parts, or just the car?wheels777 wrote: ....when taxes and brakes still counted.....Marty wrote: Oill/antifreeze/liquids do not count. spark plugs countI've reread the rules (again) and found no mention of the above comments. So I'm wondering how accurate they are? I know about the brakes not counting this year, but this is the first I've heard about taxes. I was also planning to include all liquids in my budget. This being my first year I'm starting to feel like there has been some clarification of certain things over the years that isn't published in the rules. Things like what's quoted above that repeat competitors have asked about and know but a newb like me is ignorantly budgeting. I hope no one takes this as complaining because I don't intend it that way. I'm just trying to get a full understanding of what's allowed/not allowed so I can maximize my budget, as I'm sure everyone else is.
Per posted in a thread somewhere confirming that last year that sales tax on purchases was not included.
Pat wrote: Per posted in a thread somewhere confirming that last year that sales tax on purchases was not included.
Sweet! I just freed up like $1.36 from my budget! Seriously though that does help, thanks for the clarification.
Any word on oil, coolant, etc?
GPDren wrote:Pat wrote: Per posted in a thread somewhere confirming that last year that sales tax on purchases was not included.Sweet! I just freed up like $1.36 from my budget! Seriously though that does help, thanks for the clarification. Any word on oil, coolant, etc?
This is the link I posted a few pages back:
http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/challenge-rules-and-datalogging-acquisition/14767/page1/
This was from last October, about 2/3 way down you'll see Per mention the free fluids.
IIRC taxes were excluded as each state has their own percentage
My apologies, unevolved. I had no intent to mock you.
I intended to mock Wheels777, who is a much older, and cooler fart than I. 
Just kidding. Wasn't trying to mock anyone. Just trying to have fun in a world than very frequently takes itself WAAY too serious. Rules discussions for the Challenge almost always fall into that category.
It's all good, it's just the internet.
Don't sweat it. It will be all gooder when you beat me at the Challenge.
That doesn't sound like a desire to win, right there. Someone's not bringing their A-game.
I can win at life without winning on the track. Don't mind it a bit. I always bring my A-game, but there are Challenge years when my A-game didn't even involve bringing a car.
Family man here. My A-game doesn't always involve a wrench. Sometimes it is more about cheering on a bunch of rag-tag college students.
But don't let it go to your head. More responsibilities and privileges doesn't mean I can't whip your young whippersnapper a$$ on the track. It just means that at the same time I will also be getting a lot more out of life! 
So... seriously. Traction/wheelie bars? Any specific rules they have to be built to? 
93celicaGT2 wrote: So... seriously. Traction/wheelie bars? Any specific rules they have to be built to?
We're supposed to be SCCA and NHRA legal. I'm sure there's an NHRA spec for traction/wheelie bars. Start there.
Pat wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote: So... seriously. Traction/wheelie bars? Any specific rules they have to be built to?We're supposed to be SCCA and NHRA legal. I'm sure there's an NHRA spec for traction/wheelie bars. Start there.
Cool, thanks!
FWD + weight transfer = bad
Nose DOWN.
93celicaGT2 wrote:Pat wrote:Cool, thanks! FWD + weight transfer = bad Nose DOWN.93celicaGT2 wrote: So... seriously. Traction/wheelie bars? Any specific rules they have to be built to?We're supposed to be SCCA and NHRA legal. I'm sure there's an NHRA spec for traction/wheelie bars. Start there.
Endo? mount the wheelie bars in the front
924guy wrote:93celicaGT2 wrote:Endo? mount the wheelie bars in the frontPat wrote:Cool, thanks! FWD + weight transfer = bad Nose DOWN.93celicaGT2 wrote: So... seriously. Traction/wheelie bars? Any specific rules they have to be built to?We're supposed to be SCCA and NHRA legal. I'm sure there's an NHRA spec for traction/wheelie bars. Start there.
Hahaha, what exactly is that going to accomplish besides more weight over the drive wheels?
Ok, I'm lost. Nothing new, I'm used to the feeling. 
I sure enjoy reading about all the neat cars built on a budget that most of us can see doing someday but I sure don't understand the rules.
Headlights in the trunk?
All body panels?
As much as I admire creativity, how does the mucho modified VW Bug qualify?
No rear fenders, no front fenders, no hood...
Are they bent up and stuffed behind the drivers seat?
Vague rules that if you blow your engine on the drag strip you MAY be penalized? I do agree with an earlier post that by having the drags first, you cut way down on the temptation to overload the engine and blow it up.
I do agree that safety items should not count as it must be easy to exceed $200x just for them if you go top line.
I like to see the engineering, the design, and the detailing that makes the best of the cars so interesting. I am not interested in drag racing so the autox and concourse mean more to me than the 1/4 mile time. I like cars that handle corners more than how fast they accelerate.
I like the idea of the LeMons series but hate the hideous vehicle decorations they encourage. Budget racing is great and greatly needed as so many types of racing are beyond the budget of the average person so the $200x events and clunker racing have their place and I believe their place is to be FUN. Once a person gets focused too much on winning, the battle escalates and fun goes down.
Keep it fun guys and gals, we are reading all about it! 
JagLite wrote: As much as I admire creativity, how does the mucho modified VW Bug qualify? No rear fenders, no front fenders, no hood... Are they bent up and stuffed behind the drivers seat?
You are closer than you realize.
The front fenders were cut up and hammered into different shapes, then welded into various spots to patch holes, fix rust, etc. The rear fenders are ON THE CAR, in their original shape. Look closely at a rear shot. They were moved inboard and rotated slightly to the point where the outer edge is now located where the inner edge used to be. The seam between the fender and the new rear valance can be seen on the rear of the car.
Read the rule again. It does not say the panels need to be in their original location, original shape, or complete. They are required to be on the car. They are.
WIN!
Marty! wrote:GPDren wrote:This is the link I posted a few pages back: http://grassrootsmotorsports.com/forum/grm/challenge-rules-and-datalogging-acquisition/14767/page1/ This was from last October, about 2/3 way down you'll see Per mention the free fluids.Pat wrote: Per posted in a thread somewhere confirming that last year that sales tax on purchases was not included.Sweet! I just freed up like $1.36 from my budget! Seriously though that does help, thanks for the clarification. Any word on oil, coolant, etc?
Sweet, I see it. Thanks!
Ah, thanks SVreX
I can see I don't think that way. Yet anyway.
Body panels required, but not in their original position. Hmmm, is a fender still a fender if it is not acting as a fender to some degree? Or has it just become steel stock for any use and therefore no longer a fender? But, was it ever a fender? Perhaps it was just steel stock bent over the wheel and only called a fender by us. Or the US I mean, it would be a wing across the ocean.
A hood flipped upside down and mounted on struts made from fenders in the rear could make a great wing...
No matter, I guess that is all part of the fun.
The rules are vague in order to bring out creativity. That Beetle had everything on the car. Again, the fenders were used as patch panels, therefore they were "present and installed."
Remember, the event's main purpose is to create magazine content. The party that comes with it is a bonus.
VanillaSky wrote: Remember, the event's main purpose is to create magazine content. The party that comes with it is a bonus.
This is the largest single thing we learned last year. We spent way too much time making sure our car was flawless going into concours, and were floored when it got 15th.
Know why? A boosted, plain white Civic is boring.
We're doing all our serious engineering and planning NOW, and come October, it's party time. With all the stress and hassle I'm going through now, I challenge you to find someone more relaxed than me at the host hotel (yes, we're staying with everyone else this time). As soon as we get there, I'm cracking open a beer and checking out. My job's to get the team to competition with a fast car. Once that's done, my people can take care of themselves.
my full plan is to not be hectic or stressed AT ALL.
the first two years we went down i was MEGA tired, stressed, didnt have enough fun, got too hammered, etc.
this year was a bit less stressful (mainly because gutty was so much more prepared, and did better)..
its fun ALWAYs though. i wont be winning at all next year, thats SERIOUSLY the plan. i just wanna beat andy in the drag. haha
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