Ian F wrote: This should be a fun class and should remain that way unless some idiot decides to make it a "jacket class" in which case it'll go stupid quickly. While the TW200 rule will keep things somewhat restrained, there is no width restriction and there are some damn wide TW200 tires out there.
Right. CAM is meant for "fun cars" not "race cars". Sure you could build a crazy CP car and run CAM but thats not what it's meant for.
I agree that CAM rules are still a mess, but people with 69 Camaros are just going to stop showing up if a guy with a C6Z shows up and wins every time.
Running a C5/C6 in CAM is like an able-bodied person running in the Special Olympics. So not cool.
In reply to Will: That's why in the second year of existence (I believe), C4 and newer Corvettes and Vipers aren't legal for that class.
Yay! Finally a class for my stuff thats not me against dedicated race cars. Im always stuck in cprep with my pt cars.
pushrod36 wrote: Admittedly, I am not very familiar with SCCA classes. That said, I understood that the intention of the CAM class was to provide a way for all of the guys with old muscle to run against eachother. If a stock example of one of the most popular (at least by production numbers) old cars is against the rules it seems like the mark may have been missed.
Umm... not really. As stated in the first post:
mtownneon wrote: APPENDIX B - CLASSIC AMERICAN MUSCLE (CAM) Rationale: The purpose of CAM is to attract automobile enthusiasts who are currently interested and/or participating in Goodguys®, Ultimate Street Car Association®, or other similar events for “classic” vehicles manufactured in North America by “The Big Three” based in the US (GM, Ford, and Chrysler). These avid enthusiasts would largely be a new and different group to join us as SCCA® members and participants. Regions are encouraged to offer this program using a single CAM class or the National Solo® supplemental classes to encourage Classic American Muscle car enthusiasts to join the fun at your SCCA Solo® events!
In a way, this is sort of how Street Touring got started... and we all know how that ended up. 
There's a guy in my region who shows up occasionally with a mildly modified '68 Barracuda. Due to various modifications, he runs it in Street Modified. Even though he does slap on a set of old Hoosier R-comp's for each event (that he drives on from his house), the car is still woefully outclassed against the boost-buggies. But the car would be out-classed in CAM as well. But he's having fun, so he doesn't care.
Gearheadotaku wrote: At first I questioned the tube frame allowance, then realized it's to allow Cobra replicas and so on.
You won't be seeing any Cobras.
"Vehicle must be either a domestic automobile of front-engine/RWD configuration or a “pick-up” truck."
Replicas are not produced by a domestic "Big 3" (or 4 if you'd like to include AMC) manufacturer. The originals with their British origins are not considered domestic. In either case making the 2,600# weight would require considerable ballast.
Jeff
When you bought a car from Shelby in the 60's, was he considered a manufacturer? That would make AC a 'supplier' I guess. You're right though, I've seen Cobras in one of the 'Mod" classes in the past. I wouldn't mind them in CAM S along with the other V8 FF stuff.
Will wrote: I agree that CAM rules are still a mess, but people with 69 Camaros are just going to stop showing up if a guy with a C6Z shows up and wins every time. Running a C5/C6 in CAM is like an able-bodied person running in the Special Olympics. So not cool.
Ding-Ding-Ding. Winner! I had this happen to me several times last year.
It's a decent enough concept but if they actually reclassed vehicles properly throughout the classes it would create better attendance personally.
Cobra replicas are specifically allowed in CAM-S and one raced in CAM-S at the National CAM Shootout held before Nationals.
It's really a big move for Cobra replicas as they previously needed an exception to race in XP (normally they would have been in EM). But the majority of Cobra replicas are street cars, not full blown race cars like most XP and EM cars.
You won't be seeing any Cobras.
Cobras and their replicas are allowed in CAM/S. At the CAM Invitational one of the invited cars was a real Shelby Cobra.
people with 69 Camaros are just going to stop showing up if a guy with a C6Z shows up and wins every time. Running a C5/C6 in CAM is like an able-bodied person running in the Special Olympics. So not cool.
Hence why late Corvettes and Vipers have been excluded from CAM
Yep. Wasn't there an article in some magazine recently about an original Cobra owned & driven by the original owner who runs in CAM? 
In reply to mtownneon:
Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing cars like the new ZL1 and Boss 302 excluded as well.
mtownneon wrote:You won't be seeing any Cobras.Cobras and their replicas are allowed in CAM/S. At the CAM Invitational one of the invited cars was a real Shelby Cobra.people with 69 Camaros are just going to stop showing up if a guy with a C6Z shows up and wins every time. Running a C5/C6 in CAM is like an able-bodied person running in the Special Olympics. So not cool.Hence why late Corvettes and Vipers have been excluded from CAM
My apologies Dave. Obviously I was mistaken and may have been leaning too heavily on the 2014 rules and stated rationale:
"Rationale: The purpose of “CAM” is to attract automobile enthusiasts who are currently interested in and/or participating in the Goodguys® Autocross events or other similar events for “classic” vehicles (e.g., Street Machine, Muscle Car, Hot Rod, Truck, Street Car, Late Model, etc.) built in North America by manufacturers based in the US (e.g., “The Big Three” – GM, Ford, and Chrysler)."
So with the new rules I could take my legal XP car, mount up 200 treadwear tires, add 420 pounds of weight and run CAM. That leaves me with one question...is Indy Region going to start weighing cars 
Jeff
That leaves me with one question...is Indy Region going to start weighing cars
Maybe.........
Will wrote: In reply to mtownneon: Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing cars like the new ZL1 and Boss 302 excluded as well.
Then you'd have to exclude all new cars, since the rules allow you to build a regular Camaro or Mustang up to be better than a ZL1 or Boss 302.
This is one of the points in SCCA classing that's lost on a lot of people. There's no point in classifying different trim levels of a car differently if the rules for that class allow the competitor to change the things that make them different.
drdisque wrote:Will wrote: In reply to mtownneon: Honestly, I wouldn't mind seeing cars like the new ZL1 and Boss 302 excluded as well.Then you'd have to exclude all new cars, since the rules allow you to build a regular Camaro or Mustang up to be better than a ZL1 or Boss 302.
There's just something that rubs me the wrong way about a guy taking a legal F Street ringer and running it in CAM. Smacks of "I can't beat the jocks, but I can beat the short bus kids."
There's just something that rubs me the wrong way about a guy taking a legal F Street ringer and running it in CAM. Smacks of "I can't beat the jocks, but I can beat the short bus kids."
Why? There's nothing "short bus" about the people running CAM. The funny thing about CAM is it has traditional Solo competitors up in arms, calling it "a mess", "unfair", on and on but the people who SCCA are wishing to attract love it. It's an open "hot rod" category. Essentially run what you brung and hope you brung enough. The only real restrictions are it has to be street legal (for real), from a traditional American manufacturer, on street tires, and it's front engine / rear wheel drive. I can't speak for competitors in other Regions but in my Region, everyone running CAM loves it and the guys with cars that are closer to stock that there can be some really wild cars show up. They're fine with that. They love the open nature of the class and that they can do what they want to their cars. They don't care for the traditional class structure that forces them to either do things they don't want to do to their cars or won't be bumped out of the class for doing things to their cars.
In reply to mtownneon:
I'm not saying the people running CAM are short bus, but some of the cars are, by autocross standards.
I see CAM as a place for older cars to play. Stock, modified, whatever. Just be a car you can drive on the street (carpets, windows, ect.) not a stripped out racer.
A cut off of about 1990 is still something I'd like to see. I was beaten soundly by a '72 Challenger and a '71 Chevelle this year, didn't bother me a bit. The C6 Corvettes and Coyote Mustangs well....
How do you guys feel about loosening the V8 rule a bit? Let SVO Mustangs, boosted T-Birds and Corvairs play too. Grand Nationals? Again, older stuff that fits the theme.
Gearheadotaku wrote: How do you guys feel about loosening the V8 rule a bit? Let SVO Mustangs, boosted T-Birds and Corvairs play too. Grand Nationals? Again, older stuff that fits the theme.
CAM has a V8 rule? I ran my Supercoupe in CAM for one event.
mtownneon,
Just for the record I'm right there with ya'! I don't chase points or care about PAX and am more of a run what ya' brung, fastest time wins kind of guy. That's pretty much what CAM is and it's bringing some new people into the game who wouldn't be here otherwise. I love it! Although I joke about it I have no intentions of running CAM with this car but will continue to be a supporter and thank you for the work you've put into helping develop it 
Jeff
Will wrote:Gearheadotaku wrote: How do you guys feel about loosening the V8 rule a bit? Let SVO Mustangs, boosted T-Birds and Corvairs play too. Grand Nationals? Again, older stuff that fits the theme.CAM has a V8 rule? I ran my Supercoupe in CAM for one event.
Yes, V8 is the rule. However I don't believe anyone is truly going to protest a SC T-Bird. I wouldn't.
CAM has been great for the few muscle car guys that come out and play with us. Most don't care about anything other than hooning around in a parking lot rather than cruising the local Sonic. Our current Mustang, Camaro, Vette, drivers, usually stay in the class they were in prior to the creation of CAM. Several years ago we had a dude with a beautiful, stock appearing, 50s Chevy truck on a Vette frame, we had to put him in a ridiculous Mod class. CAM would have been perfect for him.
Gearheadotaku wrote:Will wrote:Yes, V8 is the rule. However I don't believe anyone is truly going to protest a SC T-Bird. I wouldn't.Gearheadotaku wrote: How do you guys feel about loosening the V8 rule a bit? Let SVO Mustangs, boosted T-Birds and Corvairs play too. Grand Nationals? Again, older stuff that fits the theme.CAM has a V8 rule? I ran my Supercoupe in CAM for one event.
Where exactly is the V8 rule in the rules? I don't see it.
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