'80s European Sedans

So in looking at getting a new car I have seen several '80s Euro sedans; the Turbo brick, Saab 900 Turbo, Audi 5000 Turbo. Obviously the Turbobrick is known for reliability but how are they to drive and find parts for? Also the same questions for the other two plus how reliable are they?

If you are going to go that far, might as well go into the realm of reliability issue- Milano.

Since you have project ADD just like John Brown, what is your REAL criteria for said daily driver?

There's no way that one vehicle will be the ultimate- so you need to know what you are willing to trade off.

Or this could be the start of a used car salesman carrer, as you flip one for another, for another, for another....

In the 80's, it would have been my third choice, but today I'd get a turbo brick and an IPD catalog.

Is there a reason the E28/E34 and W124 aren't on that list? They'd be my choice from a parts availability and simplicity/reliability standpoint. Overall the cost of ownership is probably about the same as the Audi.

The Audi will be wonderfully reliable, if by reliable you mean it starts and drives. It'll nickel and dime you to death, though. My only experiences with Saabs have ended with blown transmissions, so I'll hold my tongue.

I'd certainly look at E34s if I was in the OP's shoes. E28 never rocked my boat that much though.

Oh, and I'd rather look at a late W123 than an early W124...

BoxheadTim wrote: I'd certainly look at E34s if I was in the OP's shoes. E28 never rocked my boat that much though.

Of the 5's, I'd lean E34, for sure. 535i if you don't care about fuel economy, M50 powered 525i if you do.

E28's have awful HVAC and are a little primitive, but I have a huge soft spot for how they look on Style 5 wheels and the driving experience is very old timey BMW.

In reply to alfadriver:

Starts everyday. Fun to drive. Manual transmission. As long as the driving position is ok, I don't care about the rest of the interior.

Edit: Decent A/C. I live in Alabama.

Mercedes have no manuals and I would rather have an E30 then a E34 but neither have really turned me on.

Driving dynamics or something else?

Of the large euro stuff made in that period, my dad and I have collectively had an E28 535is, two E34 535i's, a w124, two w123's, five 200/700 series cars, two 900's and five C3 platform Audis. I think he'd agree that the E34 is the best all-round. Close behind the Volvo and MBs for reliability/ease of maintenance, better than all of them for almost everything else. His has ~280K on it and it still goes on 8 hour trips twice a month.

Keep your eyes open for an E34 535i/5-speed if you've not driven one. It might warm you up. Last (and best) iteration of the old-school M30 motor but with modern electronics, bulletproof transmission, 50/50 weight distribution, silly good handling, tons of relatively cheap upgrade options and they just devour highway miles.

I'll shut up about the E34 now. 5-series guys somehow tend to get way more obnoxious than the 3-series guys.

I don't have direct experience, but unless you are REALLY looking for heartburn, the rankings MIGHT be:

BMW/Volvo....with the '80s BMW pulling a fraction ahead.

Saab, then Audi. The Saab will probably be easier to get parts for, and slightly cheaper too.

Wild card is the Italians. If I wanted to gamble with my money, I'd go for a 164 over a Milano...tho not really sure you could call a 164 an '80s sedan.

I know of a 5000 cs turbo quattro that's in real good shape that would sell cheap. It won't start, we got bored trying to figure it out.

The poster formally known as 96DXCivic wrote: Mercedes have no manuals and I would rather have an E30 then a E34 but neither have really turned me on.

There are manual 190Es out there (in all engine choices)

I've had a turbo brick & Alfa Milano.

The turbo volvos are waaaaaaaaay faster, but the Milano is a blast to drive.

In the year that I've had the Milano, I've done:

Clutch (needed it when I bought it)

A/C service - compresser, expansion valve, reciever/dryer - blows COLD now

battery

waterpump/timing belt

I've only been stranded once, for some reason a fuse popped for the fuel pump. I checked all the fuses that were related to the fuel system, according to the owners manual, but it didn't help.

I finally broke down and pulled EVERY SINGLE FUSE, only to find the fuse was labeled "Optional Auxiliary Accessory" in the manual.

It has been a wonderful daily driver.

The poster formally known as 96DXCivic wrote: Mercedes have no manuals

False. You could get a manual in a W124 300e for at least one year, even in the states. I think you'd have better luck of catching a unicorn though. This doesn't even include the 190's.

-The logical choice: Turbobrick or 740 turbo

-The choice offered to you by a guy with an XR4Ti: 87-88 Thunderbird Turbo. Not European, not a sedan, but will have the best AC and the oh-so -tuneable 2.3 lima turbo engine. Manual trans cars use the T5.

Note: I used to have a Milano. Great driving car.

As noted above, Saab 900s' transmissions are their Achilles' heal (automatics are slow 3-speeds). They are neither strong nor especially durable. If you find a car with a newly rebuilt gearbox, go for it. Otherwise, you need to dig these cars enough to not be swayed by the prospect of a serious repair bill (unless you can rebuild a 'box yourself).

Reliability is probably similar to other '80s Eurocars: lots of Bosch stuff in them. Parts = easy at www.eEuroparts.com (couple NLA things by now, e.g., some window seals and other trim). Engines are very durable. They are not hard to work on but they are different than other cars (engine is in backwards, for starters) so if you're not psyched to understand the weirdness, they may not be for you.

I've driven a whole bunch of miles in '70s 99s and 240s, '80s 900s and 740s, and currently own two '80s 900Ts. IMO, Saabs are way more fun to drive and have cheaper interiors, whereas Volvos are more comfortable, have more durable interiors, but put me to sleep, even with manual transmissions.

I love my turbo brick, even with an auto. Fun to drive, reliable (mine has 270K miles), and comfortable on long drives. It does feel very big, but I'm used to CRXs so that may be the problem. When I needed some parts I found numerous cars at the local yards and the parts stores didn't seem too overpriced.

I had a turbo brik (760 wagen), and it was cool and I never had any real problems with it, but it was certainly not the sharpest thing to drive. I may have kept it if it wasn't an autotragic.

Since I was a kid of the 80's, my dream is to own all the awesome cars of that era. So far I have an E28 535is and I used to have a AE86 Corolla GTS (sold it) and a KP61 Starlet (got rearended). All I need is a 200/700 Volvo, a Milano or GTV6, a Mk 3 Supra and a C4 Vette.

The Volvos can be quite fast with very little money. Quite fast, expecially compared to the others on the list. Get the newest RWD one you can find, for a better manifold, oil squirters, interior and a couple of other things.

The downsides are that they're 80's European cars. The upper radiator hose (which was in stock at the local parts store) fits from 1991-1991. Try that from any GM car made anytime after WW2. The engine compartment gets weird, too, they don't have real radiator caps. Mine failed (stuck closed) and blew up about 4 hoses before I figured it out. The heater core hose (upper, I think) costs $3.54 at eeuroparts, but the dealer wanted $65 and the local parts store had a random hose associated with that application that had ONE 90 degree bend in it. In the middle. Ugghh.

I can still dust off most Mustangs, even with an odd undiagnosed-as-of-yet rich issue. It ran 9.40 something in the eight like this with the draggy auto. It handles pretty well, too, and it's comfy.

I am a fan of the Audi V8 (not the engine, it was a model designation for a while). They depreciated like a lead balloon, and you could buy a lot of car for little cash. The hot setup seemed to be someone who had already converted the replaced the odd front brakes to something more common. I say I am a fan because I have never actually owned one. They may be money pits for all I know, but they are good-looking money pits!

I have been driving my old and mostly worn out 91 Saab 900s. 225,000 miles and ticking.

Other than hoses and tuneup stuff.. the only problem has been a disintergrating cat that keeps blocking up the exhaust.

I have to say, that out of all the front drivers, this one is the first one I have driven that you really cannot tell what end is driving the car. It is VERY neutral

mad_machine wrote: I have to say, that out of all the front drivers, this one is the first one I have driven that you really cannot tell what end is driving the car. It is VERY neutral

I agree, and I'm on a new SAAB. You can't tell its FWD until you drive it in anger or on snow/ice.

In the same list should be the Saab 9000 Turbo. I've had two of them, never paid more than $800, and I really really like them. You can get one that is quite nice in your budget and a few days of cleaning electrical connections that get dirty over 20 years of use and that sort of deferred small work that people let go on a 15 year old car.

The Turbo motors, especially the 91+ 2.3 motors have HUGE torque, the in gear acceleration is fantastic, 225hp. They make great highway cars, have lots of room in them, especially when you fold down the seats on the huge hatch. They are a very nice place to be inside, all day comfortable, and get mid 20's plus for mileage.

If I had a need for that sort of car I'd buy one again in a heartbeat.

pinchvalve wrote: I am a fan of the Audi V8 (not the engine, it was a model designation for a while). They depreciated like a lead balloon, and you could buy a lot of car for little cash. The hot setup seemed to be someone who had already converted the replaced the odd front brakes to something more common. I say I am a fan because I have never actually owned one. They may be money pits for all I know, but they are good-looking money pits!

They are money pits (yes, I've briefly owned one). They're nice to drive, though.

Brick all the way. 700/900 the whole way. Get it with the slushbox and turn up the boost. The redblock motor and chassis is the culmination of decades of refinement. Not much can go really wrong on these cars that a little work can't fix. And the suspenison parts are out there to make them handle.