Amazon orders 100k electric vans from Rivian

Looks like Rivian is the next Tesla of work horses!

https://techcrunch.com/2019/09/19/amazon-orders-100k-electric-delivery-trucks-from-rivian-as-part-of-going-carbon-neutral-by-2040/

"Amazon  will be stepping up its efforts to reduce its climate impact, CEO Jeff Bezos  announced on Thursday. The company will be ordering 100,000 electric delivery trucks from Michigan’s Rivian as part of this commitment, Bezos said. The commerce giant will seek to meet its goal of becoming carbon-neutral by 2040 — 10 years earlier than is outlined by the United Nations Paris Agreement.

Bezos said at a National Press Club event in Washington where he made the announcement that the updated timeline is due to the increase in climate change, which has been more aggressive than even some of the more serious predictions had anticipated five years ago when the Paris agreement was reached.

Amazon’s overarching efforts to make the company carbon-neutral are bundled under a plan the company is calling the “Climate Pledge,” which will be open to other companies as well. In addition to efforts like the Rivian  order for emission-free delivery vehicles, Amazon also will be seeking to reduce its footprint through other means, including solar energy and carbon offsets.

Rivian  noted that this was the largest order to date of any electric delivery vehicles, and that they’d begin actually deploying for Amazon starting in 2021. Amazon led a $700 million investment round in Rivian in February, and the company announced a further $350 million from auto industry giant Cox Automotive earlier this month. Automaker Ford revealed a $500 million investment in Rivian in April, too.

Rivian also has plans to build and ship consumer vehicles, including the all-electric pickup truck and SUV it revealed late last year, which it aims to begin delivering to customers in 2020."

This is cool.. I like Rivian.  As an ex amazonian... In the final mile delivery space..  This was bound to happen.  Final mile costs are the biggest chunk of a the FC to door logistics stream.

Wow, is this the biggest single order for any EV ever to date?  This instantly puts Rivian front and center of the serious EV players.  I've got some ex-Ford colleges working there I need to reach out too. 

I bet you that, while the sales people are popping champagne and celebrating... the engineers and manufacturing folks just E36 M3 a collective brick. That is not a long time to deliver a huge number of vehicles that must be reliable in a very demanding environment.

morello159 said:

I bet you that, while the sales people are popping champagne and celebrating... the engineers and manufacturing folks just E36 M3 a collective brick. That is not a long time to deliver a huge number of vehicles that must be reliable in a very demanding environment.

My buddy works in their Normal facility. Sounds like they'll be ready based on what he says. And everyone there is ex-Mitsubishi, ex-Caterpillar, or ex-Big 3. I really feel like they're going to make it work. 

I'm curious... In the early days, did Tesla have anywhere close to the same industry investors? $1.5 Billion is HUGE (ok, the industry investors were only $850B, but still)

mtn said:

morello159 said:

I bet you that, while the sales people are popping champagne and celebrating... the engineers and manufacturing folks just E36 M3 a collective brick. That is not a long time to deliver a huge number of vehicles that must be reliable in a very demanding environment.

My buddy works in their Normal facility. Sounds like they'll be ready based on what he says. And everyone there is ex-Mitsubishi, ex-Caterpillar, or ex-Big 3. I really feel like they're going to make it work. 

do you know if the delivery van is built on the same rollerskate as the truck and SUV?  or will they have two rollerskates going down the same line?

i also have friends at Rivian in MI and in CA.  don't know anyone at Normal, or at least i don't know that i know anyone at Normal.

I think this is great. I'm really interested in the Rivian trucks, to the point of possibly being a buyer if they come to market as promised and can actually have some towing capability. With Ford and Amazon both heavily investing, and this kind of money-where-your-mouth-is endorsement from Amazon, I think they have a pretty decent shot at being more than vaporware.

Does anyone know who supplies the powertrain stuff for them, or have they developed their own? I know UQM is a pretty popular motor/invertor supplier for smaller outfits, for example. 

ultraclyde said:

I think this is great. I'm really interested in the Rivian trucks, to the point of possibly being a buyer if they come to market as promised and can actually have some towing capability. With Ford and Amazon both heavily investing, and this kind of money-where-your-mouth-is endorsement from Amazon, I think they have a pretty decent shot at being more than vaporware.

TBD if they deliver what is promised, but they're promising 11k towing capacity.

AngryCorvair said:

mtn said:

morello159 said:

I bet you that, while the sales people are popping champagne and celebrating... the engineers and manufacturing folks just E36 M3 a collective brick. That is not a long time to deliver a huge number of vehicles that must be reliable in a very demanding environment.

My buddy works in their Normal facility. Sounds like they'll be ready based on what he says. And everyone there is ex-Mitsubishi, ex-Caterpillar, or ex-Big 3. I really feel like they're going to make it work. 

do you know if the delivery van is built on the same rollerskate as the truck and SUV?  or will they have two rollerskates going down the same line?

i also have friends at Rivian in MI and in CA.  don't know anyone at Normal, or at least i don't know that i know anyone at Normal.

Not sure. I asked my friends...

This is awesome. Already I wonder if these will become available to mass market, or be bespoke like ups designs.

There is a large spot for companies that care about engineering over marketing in the electric car world, and I am glad to see it finally starting to be filled. 

Anyone know if/where I can find a detailed writeup on the proposed drivetrain? 

I want the truck bad. Won't be able to afford it for many years, but it looks awesome. And it immediately negates one of the big downsides of a pickup in the lockable storage that it has: Frunk, trunk in the bed, and a trunk between the bed and the rear seats. 

I would hope they eventually release a long bed version, but for me the current one does everything I would need it to. 

workhorse is still out there 

https://workhorse.com/

not doing much?

How much of Rivian does Amazon own? I noticed in the article it says Amazon led a 700 million investment. Sounds like amazon might own nearly 25% of the company, so so naturally amazon would buy their own vans. Probably a smart move on Amazon's part. Let's hope Rivian can deliver!

morello159 said:

I bet you that, while the sales people are popping champagne and celebrating... the engineers and manufacturing folks just E36 M3 a collective brick. That is not a long time to deliver a huge number of vehicles that must be reliable in a very demanding environment.

I 100% agree with you. But with Amazon owning so much of Rivian, I'm sure the engineers and manufacturing folks have been instructed to plan for this. 

Fueled by Caffeine said:

workhorse is still out there 

 

https://workhorse.com/

 

not doing much?

Wow great landing page...

Robbie said:

How much of Rivian does Amazon own? I noticed in the article it says Amazon led a 700 million investment. Sounds like amazon might own nearly 25% of the company, so so naturally amazon would buy their own vans. Probably a smart move on Amazon's part. Let's hope Rivian can deliver!

Was it an ownership stake? For the next few years (and for the purpose of getting a return on their investment) it makes no difference,  but I don't think it is an ownership stake. 

AngryCorvair said:

 

do you know if the delivery van is built on the same rollerskate as the truck and SUV?  or will they have two rollerskates going down the same line?

i also have friends at Rivian in MI and in CA.  don't know anyone at Normal, or at least i don't know that i know anyone at Normal.

Friend said "Skateboard. Yes"

Also, the order is actually for 100k vans by end of 2024 and 250k vans by end of 2029. I'm not sure if that means 350k total vans or just 250k. 

mtn said:

My buddy works in their Normal facility. Sounds like they'll be ready based on what he says. And everyone there is ex-Mitsubishi, ex-Caterpillar, or ex-Big 3. I really feel like they're going to make it work. 

This is a massive, a key difference between the Bond Villan and Rivian.  One company thinks they don't need industry experience, and look at the supply side and quality issues they're having, the other is hiring people who know how to design and produce vehicles in quantity and with quality.  

Rivian sounds cool but to me because they have nothing to show in the road yet, I can't get excited. I see that everyone is excited about this company but has anyone actually used these vehicles yet? I know Tesla gets a lot of E36 M3 from people but no one gives this company E36 M3. Confusing. Hopefully, they do well but they will have issues and pains as they come out. Just like Tesla, except this time I hope people understand the growth and mistakes required for a company that's doing innovative new things. 

Robbie said:

How much of Rivian does Amazon own? I noticed in the article it says Amazon led a 700 million investment. Sounds like amazon might own nearly 25% of the company, so so naturally amazon would buy their own vans. Probably a smart move on Amazon's part. Let's hope Rivian can deliver!

It's not clear how much they own, as it'll depend on the valuation in which they invested, which is not a known number to the outside world.  If the valuation is 2.8bn post money, then your number would be right, if it's higher than their stake is lower, and vice versa.  Either way, it's a big investment, so I believe Rivian knew it was getting a bunch of cash as well as a large order as part of the deal.  We're only finding out about the order part now.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

Agreed. Seems like rivian is taking a much more grounded approach than the run before you crawl Tesla approach

mtn said:

Was it an ownership stake? For the next few years (and for the purpose of getting a return on their investment) it makes no difference,  but I don't think it is an ownership stake. 

Every source I've seen says it's an equity stake in Rivian, rather than an upfront payment for vans. 

Rivian had a display at the NYIAS earlier this year - it was mobbed.  Part of the display was a "rollerskate" chassis with the battery assembly.  It definitely looked like it wouldn't take much to drop a van body on it with the main change being lowering the suspension from a less "4X4 ride height" that wouldn't be desirable for a delivery van.

I'm hoping they'll make enough vans to sell some to consumers.  An EV van is something I'd be interested in as an every day driver.

In reply to Adrian_Thompson :

I think you're right in that for a more commercial product like vans/trucks it's important to ensure the engineering is top notch.  But Elon isn't going after that market - it's going after the rich consumer market with high end products, so it needs to be sexy to sell.  Of course, they need a product that meets a minimum standard, and one can argue that it's not been fantastic in that regard, but in other regards the product has blown all the competitors out of the water.  

Sexy sells for consumers (didnt' we just have this discussion on why Mustang outsells Camaros?); reliability and lowest cost of ownership sells for corporates.