Autocrossing a Grand National

http://www.streetmusclemag.com/news/video-behind-the-wheel-of-an-87-grand-national-at-optima-njmp/

this guy is a local autocrosser, it's a hilarious car to see chasing around the course!

In reply to KyAllroad :

Badass!

Why the hell not!!!! This very vehicle came up in conversation yesterday as putting a beat down on even an early Viper. The suspension mods alone are quite interesting. Great effort!!!!

I rode in it for a lap in 2015 when it still had the bench seat.

Riotous doesn't begin to explain it.

Sweet. 

That is an awesome car and an awesome video.

GRM actually scooped on this car back in 2014:

https://grassrootsmotorsports.com/news/buick-regal-grand-national-your-cars/

Yes, that's the same guy, same car. I know, because it's me.

Always loved the sound and look of the Grand National.  Ultimate sleeper for it's day, if you were deaf.  

Andrew does hustle that beast around the cones than you would expect. This car also spent quite a while as his daily wiht the kid seat strapped in the back.

Awesome video, car definitely moves and handles well.

One question, is that gauge in the video really showing the oil pressure? If so that is pretty scary low pressure, especially on a road course.

So cool.  I'll have to bring my xjr to some autocrosses next year.

I saw a Magnum run once.  I was impressed on how well it did.

It's nice to see a G-Body out doing anything, let alone a rare one getting used on track. Quality video, quality owner.

Good work ascott.

In reply to 81cpcamaro :

Yeah, and now the rest of the story. Right after that video cuts out, I blew both head gaskets and the #1 rod bearing failed trying to finally get close enough to that black F-body so he'd point me by. Pressures were good after the first session (50psi at WOT), but deteriorated rapidly during the second. That's why the engine's out and getting stroked. Had to get a new crank and rods anyway.

Also getting a professionally blueprinted front timing cover (which has the oil pump cast into it) to prevent that from happening again. I'll probably look at putting an accumulator in line with  an additional oil cooler, too. I've never observed a pressure loss due to side loading in my logs, and oil analysis about 4000 miles ago didn't show anything ary, but something starved that bearing.

On the bright side, I got three years of autocross and almost 300 miles of road course time out of that engine build, and running at this level wasn't even a blip on my radar when I built that engine. That build was just a mostly stock overhaul after I popped a head gasket in 2014. I went to the GS Nats a few weeks ago and watched a bunch of guys not even make it 1420 feet on brand new professionally built engines. So I don't feel too bad.

Yeah, I just converted 270 kpa into PSI and it was 39 (which is what it topped out at at the end of that straight). Have you tried detuning it for certain courses? Of course that wouldn't help the spool though which is probably the biggest concern. I imagine you're not running too big of a turbo in order to keep the turbo lag reasonable.

I was wondering if that 20-something psi oil pressure while showing a bunch of boost was real or not. That couldn't last long.. sorry to hear. Cool car though!

Yeah, I just converted 270 kpa into PSI and it was 39 

Subtract ~14.7psi of ambient pressure, but it's still a lot.  

Great car and a great owner. This thing is local to me and I love watching Andrew flog it around our at our autocrosses. 

But I just read in another thread that G-body's are no fun, can't handle and are useless floppy relics from the past. I'm so confused 

Seriously, great car!

drdisque said:

Yeah, I just converted 270 kpa into PSI and it was 39 (which is what it topped out at at the end of that straight). Have you tried detuning it for certain courses? Of course that wouldn't help the spool though which is probably the biggest concern. I imagine you're not running too big of a turbo in order to keep the turbo lag reasonable.

Yeah, subtract 14.7 to get the boost number.  My set point was 20psi. But as it turns out, it creeps in third on long straights. It popped somewhere north of 24psi.

The turbo is a PTE 5758E. Required a 3100 stall convertor to really make it work, but work it does. I've ported the wastegate hole while it's off the car to help bypass more exhaust and hopefully keep the creep down. I'll be lowering the set point on the new engine, too. If I set it to 17-18 and it creeps to 20, I'll be safe.

DIYAutoTune is also coming out with a PnP MS3 system for the car in a couple of weeks. I'm getting it. That should allow me a lot more leeway and control over this thing. Also adding all the sensors. Fuel pressure, transmission line pressure, transmission temp, oil temp, moving the IAT into the plenum (stock location is at the air filter, before the turbo).

Ooof, five years gone. Saw this in my dashboard and realized it could use an update.

Since September of 2017:

The engine rebuild was a smashing success. The failure at NJMP was diagnosed as insufficient octane. that 24psi on gasoline caused a detonation event that hammered that rod bearing. Oops. The rebuild was a recipe. Proven low-10 second bottom end hardware and I stroked it to 4.1L.  The torque output is prodigious. I haven't dyno'd it, but I have data logs. Based on acceleration on flat ground down the front straight at NCM, it's ~508HP and 930lb-ft on E85 to the ground. Horsepower might be higher, but the transmission shifts at 5000rpm. The valvetrain can do 7,000. Raising the shift point requires grinding metal off a counterweight inside the transmission, so it's tedious to change and test, and there's no going back if you go too far. So I've haven't tried.

I did get the MS3 for it. It was a good move. Flex fuel and closed loop boost control means it'll back itself all the way down to 14psi if it's full of gas, and ramps up to 24psi and feeds in an extra lump of timing on the corn juice, and an RPM scaled oil pressure warning feature lights the dash up like the 4th of July if oil pressure is too low.  I also get lights if the transmission gets too hot. The car MOVES.  I've flat outrun verified 520hp C5s and a GT3RS at NCM and Road America... in a straight line. A high efficiency torque converter that cost more than my first car fixed the transmission heat problem, too. I went through three gearboxes before finding that part. Because I'm an idiot.

It ran a 7.77 1/8 mile on 14psi this past summer with a 1.8 60' at the local drag strip on no-prep grudge match night. On Falken RT660s. 

The car made it into the Optima Invitational in 2018 and 2021, and went to Saudi Sema in '19.

Also did the 2021 SCCA Solo Nationals in CAM-T where I got my stool pushed in. It was my first nats, I did not drive well. I sucked bigly. Autocrossing at those speeds with that much grip was new. I'm one of those that tends to sneak up on times, and 3 runs just wasn't enough for me to get there. I need more concrete practice. But it was fun. I do plan on going back to Lincoln in 2023 for the 50th anniversary. I'll probably still suck, but at least I'll be in the record book as having been there. I'll also try to get some time on the test course.

With the ridiculous spike in value on these cars, I've eschewed track events the past year, swapping over to an XA class Ford Probe. But it hasn't been parked. The Buick just turned 90,000 miles. Had to DD it for two weeks last month while my truck was in the shop and that pushed it over the mark. And got it filthy. I had to drive in snow. On Falkens. It did well. I don't think I was close to death even once.

I may try to borrow a set of drag radials and see how it does returning to its roots this summer. My last 1/4 mile pass was 8 or 9 years and two engines ago. That was a 12-something at 104-ish I think. I think it's a mid-low 11 second car now, but won't know until I do it. And I'll only get to do it once, because it's not caged yet and they'll kick me out.

So, updated. I've got a bunch of social media now, too. Search for @inkyracing to keep tabs on the yoootoobz and the gram.

BoostedBrandon said:

I rode in it for a lap in 2015 when it still had the bench seat.

Riotous doesn't begin to explain it.

But... GNs never had bench seats.  They all had floor shifters which kinda precludes that..

Pete. (l33t FS) said:

BoostedBrandon said:

I rode in it for a lap in 2015 when it still had the bench seat.

Riotous doesn't begin to explain it.

But... GNs never had bench seats.  They all had floor shifters which kinda precludes that..

 

You could get a regal turbo with a bench though

debating auto crossing my 67 deville

You might end up on cone duty for the rest of the century.

Did you ever run this car in SWVR around 20 years ago?  One used to show up occasionally for events and it had a gnarly turbo, in spite of the F/S proclamation on the side.  For being a bigger car, it was pretty quick.  I was autocrossing a giant Ford Thunderbird at the time and could relate.. to the size part.. not so much the speed.