Buying a car without a title

So I found a pretty interesting track car for sale, but it is advertised as "no title". Here is what the seller told me in response to my initial inquiry:

It does not have a title, it was bought with a bill of sale only I believe because it has been modified- the engine is an m3 engine while the chassis is a 318i. It is not street legal and only usable off-road. We've only used it on a race track like Sebring or Homestead to do track day events and I believe the previous owner did auto-cross. We don't have a log book or any good record of what was actually done to the car so we're not making any guarantees about that.

If the price is right, I might be interested. That said, what are the possible reasons why a 1994 BMW would no longer have a title? The car is in FL. Would it be possible to get it titled again? I've never looked into this type of situation and need some guidance.

Call the cops with the vin, if its clean proceed with caution.

I do not care, I will NEVER buy a car without a title handed off when the car leaves. I don't care if it is the rarest Pierce-Arrow in the world worth more money then most countries GDP, no title is a no sale.

If it had a FL title, call the DMV and find out the last owner and they can have the owner of record apply for the lost title to sell it to you. Provided the owner of record wants to sell now or you are harboring stolen goods....

Ranger50 wrote: I do not care, I will NEVER buy a car without a title handed off when the car leaves. I don't care if it is the rarest Pierce-Arrow in the world worth more money then most countries GDP, no title is a no sale.

That's ridiculous. Many older cars don't have titles and many states don't allow re-titling, but if you have to get one to satisfy your sale condition you can get a 'washed' title from one of the title companies or with a friend of family member in one of those 're-title' states. Even the 'cleanest' title doesn't guarantee you squat. Have a police check on the VIN, order a DMV history, it will indicate what state it came from, contact that DMV with a title search, continue until you have the whole history. I personally don't think a title means squat after all the crap i've been through with the Merkur, I'd rather have a full history report (not talking about CarFax) than a title...

Now for the OP, do have a PO run the VIN, if you intend on keeping it off-road you should be fine, if not, goodluck.

Raze wrote: That's ridiculous.

It maybe, but after already being burned on a no title car once before and the hoops to get a title, I'll stick with being ridiculous. Sad part is that car is an albatross. I never seen to get rid of it. I'll pass on no title cars.

Welcome to SC . . . Where no title = you are not the owner. So many good deals come by w/o a title. And the horror/headache stories will keep them going by.

^^^ He speakith the truth.

Ranger50 wrote: I do not care, I will NEVER buy a car without a title handed off when the car leaves.......no title is a no sale.

Illinois is a hassle if u don't have a title - even I was building a track car; I would still want a title.

The main question is why there is no title. There is a van for sale on CL locally that in one of the many ads he states basically that the state has the title for back child support, meaning he can't sell the vehicle legally without turning over the amount to the state in exchange for the title.

Ranger50 wrote:

Raze wrote: That's ridiculous.

It maybe, but after already being burned on a no title car once before and the hoops to get a title, I'll stick with being ridiculous. Sad part is that car is an albatross. I never seen to get rid of it. I'll pass on no title cars.

Ok I came off a bit harsh with that, and I totally understand where you're coming from, we had the same trouble with the XR4Ti. I guess it's more dependent on the rules of the state in which you live and whatnot, I wasn't really thinking globally.

I had a chance to buy a TR6 race car one time with no title in Greenville, SC. The car was stored in a furniture store basement and the owner of the car had disappeared. He also left three GT-6s. The furniture store owner had taken them for the cost of storage. I don't remember if he placed a lien on them. I walked when i could not get the car owner's attorney to even write a letter indicating the car was being sold to me.

Raze wrote:

Ranger50 wrote:

Raze wrote: That's ridiculous.

It maybe, but after already being burned on a no title car once before and the hoops to get a title, I'll stick with being ridiculous. Sad part is that car is an albatross. I never seen to get rid of it. I'll pass on no title cars.

Ok I came off a bit harsh with that, and I totally understand where you're coming from, we had the same trouble with the XR4Ti. I guess it's more dependent on the rules of the state in which you live and whatnot, I wasn't really thinking globally.

That's fine. It is just like I said, the car in question has been an albatross. TWO, maybe THREE different owners later, I get a few private messages about this car. Guess what those PM's wanted? "Yeah, we bought this car and need the title to it as my girlfriend threw it away. It is Michigan title number XXXX, blah, blah, blah..." Maybe I'm a dick for it, but I ain't lifting a damn finger to get a lost title. If they already have that kind of information, go get it! But don't be surprised if I said, "Nope didn't sell it, I had loaned it to "Mr Y" to use for display... Then someone stole it. So turn it over or expect to get sued."

In MS, No title = headaches. If you only get a bill of sale, you're liable for the taxes.

Raze wrote: Ok I came off a bit harsh with that, and I totally understand where you're coming from, we had the same trouble with the XR4Ti. I guess it's more dependent on the rules of the state in which you live and whatnot, I wasn't really thinking globally.

Yes, this. Some states don't require a title on cars over XX years old and whatnot. If you live in a state like that, fine, buy a car without a title.

I've only lived in 5 states, but in each of them, a title is PROOF YOU OWN THE CAR. If a seller can't prove he owns a car, I won't give him ONE THIN DIME for it.

That having been said, if I wanted to own a track-only car (I don't) and I owned a trailer to move it to and from the track (I don't) AND I owned a Sawsall and or cutting torch (Even the scrapyard won't take a whole car without a title), then maybe, just maybe, I would buy a car without a title. But it better be a hell of a deal!

Depends on the state and the reason for the missing title - as mentioned many times above. For example - below from Georgia's regs...

"Buying Without a Title or Registration Titles are not required in Georgia for vehicles 1985 or older, but you will need to provide the Bill of Sale when you register the car in your name, so be sure to take it with you to your local Tax Commissioner's Office. If the car is newer than 1985, the Bill of Sale might still work in place of a title.

If the registration is missing, you'll need to go to your local Tax Commissioner's Office after contacting law enforcement to inspect the vehicle and the VIN. With this documentation and your Bill of Sale, you'll be able to register the car in your name."

"I walked when i could not get the car owner's attorney to even write a letter indicating the car was being sold to me." Yeah - anytime you're dealing with the owner/seller's attorney, it's usually not going to be the smoothest transaction.

I know some state don't issue titles for older cars, like GA above, never could figure out why. As far as not being able to buy / sell a car due to title issues, I always hated the idea of a perfectly good car going to waste over paperwork issues.

Go ahead you can have it back

What's the law in FL? I know Maine doesn't issue titles for cars more than 15 years old. That means I had a few early 90s cars and 80s motorcycles with no title, and it was perfectly OK. When selling to someone in a state that does require a title for a car that age, a copy of the current registration (indicating the current legal owner) plus a bill of sale to the buyer is often sufficient. Yes, this doesn't work for a currently non-registered car.

I suppose it depends on if you ever intend to make this car street legal or not. If not, run the VIN by the cops to make sure it's not stolen, and if it's clean, then go for it, knowing you'll never be able to put it on the road. For a street car, that could be a lot more difficult. You could try to track down the last registered/titled owner and try to get them to legally sign the car over to you, completing the paper trail.

I have one no title car. Had the police run it, and its negative for stolen, so its clean. It is in no way street legal, so that won't happen. I cannot obtain a title and will not. The only way would be for the prior title owner to apply for one, and they probably forgot about the car after they sold it.

So, have a LEO run the VIN, then never expect to get a title or drive it on the street. Also, it will be hard too sell, so have no expectation further than destroying the car and scrapping the leftover metal.

For a track car I wouldn't worry about it. The Abomination doesn't have a title but since it will never see street use, it's not an issue.

For a street car, I'll pass. It's not worth the headache.

Toyman01 wrote: For a track car I wouldn't worry about it. The Abomination doesn't have a title but since it will never see street use, it's not an issue. For a street car, I'll pass. It's not worth the headache.

if the Abomination had been stolen from me, it would be an issue for you.

Thanks guys. I asked the seller for some details on why the car does not have a title and also for the VIN. We'll see what comes back!

AngryCorvair wrote:

Toyman01 wrote: For a track car I wouldn't worry about it. The Abomination doesn't have a title but since it will never see street use, it's not an issue. For a street car, I'll pass. It's not worth the headache.

if the Abomination had been stolen from me, it would be an issue for you.

Hey now, thats why the PoLice will run the vin and he will receive a bill of sale and check the guy's ID. That way if the car is stolen, his lawyer will pass all the stolen property charges on to the seller along with the extra charges for selling, and then he can sue him for monetary damages and time spent. Time is money. Possession may be 9/10 of the law, but a paper trail is mighty handy. Oh, and elaminate that bill of sale to preserve his finger prints.

dyintorace wrote: Thanks guys. I asked the seller for some details on why the car does not have a title and also for the VIN. We'll see what comes back!