Can an F-150 Lightning really road trip?

We've spent nearly a year and nearly 20,000 miles driving our electric Ford F-150 Lightning, an experience we've documented in real-time on our Builds and Projects forum and are now summarizing in these project car updates. 

The number one comment we get? Always, without fai…

Read the rest of the story

Yes there is a Tesla SC station two exits down the freeway from my exit.  Yes you can go across country with the Ford Lighting.  But no you can't get to the cabin or around much in the UP of Michigan with it, let alone if its towing a trailer.  Back to long time plugged in with Level 2 charging at best.  IMNSHO, I still think the RamCharger will be a more versatile option for when towing anywhere off the interstate system vs the Lighting, Rivian R1T or the Cybertruck. As always, YMMV.

Yes; definitely fewer charging options in the UP. 

Out of curiosity, roughly where's your cabin? Sounds like a fun challenge to figure out how to get there, and it seems like it would be hard to get further than 50 miles from a fast charging station.

I'm still impressed this truck can pull a '74 Caddy with a stuck rear brake drum out of a garage with no problem. 

I like it. I think it feels more limiting than it actually is. I keep thinking that me and my dad couldn't have towed my new boat back from Florida to VA in one day like we did with my gas F150 (getting absolutely garbage fuel mileage the whole way), but that's basically the more extreme version of the trade-off you highlighted...I could be getting much better, quieter, more powerful usage out of my "normal" day to day, and I'd just have to drive a different truck on the once a year, gotta drag a heavy load, a long ways, in a short time, trip.

Why wouldn't he just charge at the cabin, assuming it has electricity?

Until a few years ago, the family had a cabin in the Ocala National Forest. It was equally remote.

Getting gas was a 20-minute drive. Charging my EV didn't require leaving the property. 

looks like the bottom of the market is around $36k right now?

I'll be curious to see how well the range holds up.  picking up a used lightning in a couple years might be the right replacement for the Leaf we bought from you.  and maybe give me the ability to start towing a project car around.

keep up the reports/articles!

Tom - the cabin is on the lakes near Curtis MI.  When not relaxing we use the cabin as a base camp for day trips all over the UP for a three week period in September.  The issue in the UP is that the drive from one spot to another is always at least 1 hour, sometimes 2 or even 4 hrs - each way.  Plus even gas stations are not on every corner in the UP, just like in a whole lot of other rural areas in the US. 

Here is my real issue with any / all EVs right now.  With my current ride (V6 AWD Durango), which gets on average 20 mpg in mixed use city/highway driving (when not pulling a trailer of course) and it has a 24.6 gallon tank.  At just about any gasoline station pump anywhere, I can add up to about 500 miles of driving range in well under 10 minutes.  And yes, adding 100 miles of range via a Jerry can is a bit slower of a process.  Now how much driving range can you add to the Lightning at a Tesla supercharge in that same 10 minute period, if all the conditions are right?

The cabin(s) typically have a 60 Amp service, so unless I want to unplug the electric stove (if so equipped), the best bet of finding access to a 240 volt outlet to plug-in say a portable Level 2 charger is at an RV camp ground.  

I am not saying taking our trip to the cabin in the Lightning is impossible, just that it would involve so much "wasted" time recharging the Lightning as to make the whole trip basically impractical.  Until automakers switch to say solid state sodium batteries and we have widely available 800 volt charging architecture darn near everywhere, I think our best most practical use vehicles will be either a plug-in or series hybrids, not pure EV's. That is why I really like the idea of the RamCharger for a pickup truck / SUV.

You can take all this along with $1 and you may still be able to get a senior coffee at McDonald's.

deaconblue said:

Now how much driving range can you add to the Lightning at a Tesla supercharge in that same 10 minute period, if all the conditions are right?

The Lightning is rated at 49 kwh/100 miles. Tom's seeing charging rates of 140-160 kw IIRC, so let's average that to 150 kw. 10 minutes would get you 25 kWh, or about 50 miles of range.

But thinking of a fuel stop as a standalone thing is what you need to change. The thing to do is to charge the vehicle when you're not driving it. Gonna stop for lunch? That's when you plug in the truck. Charging overnight but you don't have enough power to run the stove and the charger? Plug in the truck before you go to bed and you're not cooking, it'll be full in the morning - and that's roughly 230 miles of range, or about 4 hours of driving at 50 mph.

And of course, when you're not blasting around in the woods, you're not making regular stops at gas stations if you can charge at home. All those 10 minute stops you make every few days or weeks disappear in daily use. That's the tradeoff for maybe having to stop a little longer on a road trip.

Not saying it's always possible in places with little to no infrastructure or population. Just saying that you have to look at it a little differently instead of "here is how I always do it, it is the only way it can be done".

The Ram is an interesting one. I think they've balanced the ICE and battery size incorrectly - if you're going to carry around that whole ICE setup, the vehicle should use it most of the time because it's just wasted money otherwise. Plug-in hybids have this fundamental problem, I think mild hybrids make more sense. Don't pay for a largeish battery just to drag around a spare engine. Especially for sustained heavy use like towing a trailer, when you're going to exhaust the battery and drive on the ICE until you stop to charge.

Well said, Keith. Though a full charge is more like 300-320 miles on country roads.

Rather than plug in the truck before bed, just plug it in whenever and tell it "don't charge from 5-9pm (or whenever you're often using the stove) " then it will wait until then to start pulling power. 

Does VIR have hotels with chargers nearby? That's my most challenging semi-frequent use case. 250 mile drive pulling loaded enclosed trailer through hills, then a pretty rural hotel scene.

I checked the cabin, and the closest fast charger is 14 min away at the Sanford Food Store. Not sure where you get your groceries, but a grocery run is plenty of time for a full charge. So you might already be parking your Durango at a fast charger for plenty of time to charge it, but not adding any range. 

I tapped random cities in the UP until I found a 4-hour drive from Curtis, and it looks like that's less range than a full charge. So if you owned a Lightning, you'd arrive at your cabin, charge it overnight once you finished cooking, then depart for the 4-hour trip with a full charge and not stop. Once you got wherever you were going, you'd need to spend 45 minutes at a fast charger (or overnight at a level 2) before you could drive 4 hours home without any stops. After another night plugged into your cabin, you could do another 4 hours the next morning without stopping.

Alternatively, you could do two 25-minute stops at some point during the day, if there isn't a fast charger at the destination or if you need a bathroom break more often than every 4 hours. 

And FWIW, I used to live in Traverse City and spent every weekend road-tripping, including once to a cabin in the woods a bit north of Saginaw, so I have a pretty decent understanding of the area.

Spearfishin said:

Does VIR have hotels with chargers nearby? That's my most challenging semi-frequent use case. 250 mile drive pulling loaded enclosed trailer through hills, then a pretty rural hotel scene.

There's a free charger in the Raceplex (barely) outside the track, but for that I'd probably pay the $30 electricity fee and plug in in the paddock. If you want to rely on public charging, here are the options. A few fast chargers in Danville (where everybody stays, for those who haven't been to VIR) and a few level 2 hotel chargers (green dots):

Another, since we're playing ask the guy with the electric truck: my '21 has F150 has at least 25 miles of range after it says "0 miles to empty". (Confirmed, unfortunately with someone else behind the wheel when I set them up for failure after asking them to help me pick up another bad decision purchase and we immediately hopped on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, which is 22 miles long, with no option for fuel or U-turn.)

When it says you have 300 miles in the Lightning (or whatever the number is), when it gets to zero, is that legitimately it? Or said another way, when I fill my truck up, the computer says "395 miles to empty" but really that's like 410+, in a pinch. What's the "in a pinch" situation at the small end of the mileage range on a Lightning, or EV's more broadly?

Tom Suddard said:

Spearfishin said:

Does VIR have hotels with chargers nearby? That's my most challenging semi-frequent use case. 250 mile drive pulling loaded enclosed trailer through hills, then a pretty rural hotel scene.

There's a free charger in the Raceplex (barely) outside the track, but for that I'd probably pay the $30 electricity fee and plug in in the paddock. If you want to rely on public charging, here are the options. A few fast chargers in Danville (where everybody stays, for those who haven't been to VIR) and a few level 2 hotel chargers (green dots):

Cool. We usually stay at the Sleep Inn in Danville, or at the track if someone is feeling froggy, but regardless, looks like there would be options. 

Keith Tanner said:

The Ram is an interesting one. I think they've balanced the ICE and battery size incorrectly - if you're going to carry around that whole ICE setup, the vehicle should use it most of the time because it's just wasted money otherwise. Plug-in hybids have this fundamental problem, I think mild hybrids make more sense. Don't pay for a largeish battery just to drag around a spare engine. Especially for sustained heavy use like towing a trailer, when you're going to exhaust the battery and drive on the ICE until you stop to charge.

From an engineering stand point I think just about any light duty vehicle should have been equipped with a mild hybrid setup for the last 15 years or so.  Recovering energy via regenerative braking is a no brainier to increase overall efficiency.  Plus having the added limited boost in power from a small assist electric motor can be very handy. 

The RamCharger is not carrying around "the whole ICE setup".  The V6 engine package is there only to spin the on board generator which charges the battery pack.  No transmission, no mechanical connection to the wheels.  You are always using the electric motors to drive the vehicle, the same as the Lightning,  The idea is to reduce the anxiety of driving a pure EV or the need to change your habits while travel in unfamiliar areas or for extended periods of time. IIRC, Ford has a patent for a similar ICE powered on board generator setup in a "tool box" type package that could be supposedly added to a the planned but now delayed Gen II Lightning.

Plus we haven't even discussed the upfront cost difference and the payback period of say a Lightning vs a ICE F150 - lots of variables there!

Tom Suddard said:

I checked the cabin, and the closest fast charger is 14 min away at the Sanford Food Store. Not sure where you get your groceries, but a grocery run is plenty of time for a full charge. So you might already be parking your Durango at a fast charger for plenty of time to charge it, but not adding any range. 

I tapped random cities in the UP until I found a 4-hour drive from Curtis, and it looks like that's less range than a full charge. So if you owned a Lightning, you'd arrive at your cabin, charge it overnight once you finished cooking, then depart for the 4-hour trip with a full charge and not stop. Once you got wherever you were going, you'd need to spend 45 minutes at a fast charger (or overnight at a level 2) before you could drive 4 hours home without any stops. After another night plugged into your cabin, you could do another 4 hours the next morning without stopping.

Alternatively, you could do two 25-minute stops at some point during the day, if there isn't a fast charger at the destination or if you need a bathroom break more often than every 4 hours. 

And FWIW, I used to live in Traverse City and spent every weekend road-tripping, including once to a cabin in the woods a bit north of Saginaw, so I have a pretty decent understanding of the area.

Very interesting.  Thanks for the research!  I will have to keep my eyes open wider this year and look for the charging stations.  I always liked the Rivian R1S and thought of it as a possible (but expensive) potential replacement for the Durango, just didn't think it was practical one.  BTW, the new garage addition is getting its own 100 Amp sub panel with a industrial rated (Tesla approved) Hubble/Bryant 50 Amp outlet 

In reply to deaconblue :

I know it's a series hybrid with no transmission, but you still have to carry the full cooling and fuel systems along with the power unit, and you have all the maintenance needs as well. It's a big power unit for the purpose, chosen because Ram already had it on the shelf and not because it's properly sized for the application. It only has to be big enough to keep up with sustained heavy use, the battery will have enough capacity to deal with spikes in demand. A 305 hp generator will likely never be used to full capacity, that's basically what it would take to  run a Supercharger. The battery could be tiny and the generator could do most of the work.

I'm ready to be  proven wrong, but I think Dodge based the ICE too much on what they already have and put too much emphasis on maximizing pure electric range. One or the other, sure, but not both. 

Yes I understand, but I highly doubt it will be the 305 cHP tune unit.  More than likely it will be the under stressed 260 cHP rated Atkinson cycle unit straight out of the Pacific hybrid or even the older 220 cHP version of that engine that debuted back in 2017.  The 130 kW onboard generator in the RamCharger requires 174 HP input, making something like the 2.0L turbo engine from the Jeep 4xe equipped vehicles a bit undersized or over stressed.

Now back to our regularly schedule programming concerning the Lightning.

When we charge in Idaho Springs, we walk half a block to a great little local deli. There isn't a chain restaurant in sight. When we charge in Glenwood, it's similar - we have our choice of a good Indian place, Mexican or Japanese. All independents. There might be chain restaurants nearby but I've never looked. Fast chargers don't necessarily mean chain restaurants.

If you're stopped overnight, you're stopped for 8 hours. That's not a big deal - and you only need that long a stop if you're really depleted on power. I agree that tapping into house wiring is a little outside normal, but it's possible. You cannot do that with liquid fuel. I'm looking for ways to make things possible, not looking for ways why it can't work because it's not the same as another type as vehicle. It's not fantasy. It's problem solving.

But hey, I've road tripped them including multi-day stops where there was no charging available where I was parked. I made it work without too much trouble.

deaconblue said:

Tom - the cabin is on the lakes near Curtis MI.  When not relaxing we use the cabin as a base camp for day trips all over the UP for a three week period in September.  The issue in the UP is that the drive from one spot to another is always at least 1 hour, sometimes 2 or even 4 hrs - each way.  Plus even gas stations are not on every corner in the UP, just like in a whole lot of other rural areas in the US. 

Here is my real issue with any / all EVs right now.  With my current ride (V6 AWD Durango), which gets on average 20 mpg in mixed use city/highway driving (when not pulling a trailer of course) and it has a 24.6 gallon tank.  At just about any gasoline station pump anywhere, I can add up to about 500 miles of driving range in well under 10 minutes.  And yes, adding 100 miles of range via a Jerry can is a bit slower of a process.  Now how much driving range can you add to the Lightning at a Tesla supercharge in that same 10 minute period, if all the conditions are right?

The cabin(s) typically have a 60 Amp service, so unless I want to unplug the electric stove (if so equipped), the best bet of finding access to a 240 volt outlet to plug-in say a portable Level 2 charger is at an RV camp ground.  

I am not saying taking our trip to the cabin in the Lightning is impossible, just that it would involve so much "wasted" time recharging the Lightning as to make the whole trip basically impractical.  Until automakers switch to say solid state sodium batteries and we have widely available 800 volt charging architecture darn near everywhere, I think our best most practical use vehicles will be either a plug-in or series hybrids, not pure EV's. That is why I really like the idea of the RamCharger for a pickup truck / SUV.

You can take all this along with $1 and you may still be able to get a senior coffee at McDonald's.

Preach brother. 

Tommy - Ocala National Forest is barely remote these days. It's roughly 37 miles tall by 35 miles wide at the most extreme points. Not a great reference for using EVs in remote/rural areas. 

The mental gymnastics needed to be done to figure out how I'm going to have enough juice transport my ass aren't worth it. I just don't see the lightning being anything other than a great option for Suburbia. 

In reply to DirtyBird222 :

FYI, my wife's company uses a couple of Lightnings for parts and sample running all over Western Colorado. Definitely not suburbia.

Spearfishin said:

Another, since we're playing ask the guy with the electric truck: my '21 has F150 has at least 25 miles of range after it says "0 miles to empty". (Confirmed, unfortunately with someone else behind the wheel when I set them up for failure after asking them to help me pick up another bad decision purchase and we immediately hopped on the Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel, which is 22 miles long, with no option for fuel or U-turn.)

When it says you have 300 miles in the Lightning (or whatever the number is), when it gets to zero, is that legitimately it? Or said another way, when I fill my truck up, the computer says "395 miles to empty" but really that's like 410+, in a pinch. What's the "in a pinch" situation at the small end of the mileage range on a Lightning, or EV's more broadly?

Why do people insist on running ANY vehicle down to it's last drop of fuel or last electron? It's STUPID is what it is. In 4 years of daily driving EVs and road tripping, I've NEVER come CLOSE to running out of juice.

I mean, why is your gas powered vehicle that close to empty that you get into situations where you might run out? Why do you avoid going to the gas station that is supposedly so simple and fast, to use? Maybe because going to the gas station all the time sucks? And the fact that you HAVE to go somewhere ELSE to put gas in it, so you avoid going there until you absolutely have to...

Sometimes it seems like the ICE-OR-DIE folks will look for ANY edge case in driving to say not only won't they work for you, but for anyone.