Cute Ute 4x4: which one works and what's fun?

We're looking at the Jeep renegade, Mazda cox3(5?), ford escape. But don't want an AWD setup that peg legs around at the slightest hint of wheel spin. I was less than impressed with a friends Nissan that excitedly one wheel peeled every opportunity it got.

Wagon or hatch would fit the bill, but AWD is preferable as she gets sent out regardless of snow conditions (NJ, NY, PA territory). It's just the two of us so we don't need a behemoth, and she finds the Impreza hatch offensively egg shaped, ugly and not fun. Jeep probably does everything we need it too and more, I just want to see if there are other options that are "fun" or fun to drive.

Don't need lockers at both ends, but an open center diff seems pointless. Manufacurer literature tells me magic traction leprechauns in the diff send power to the wheels via the rainbow connection. I just want to know if the center diffs are open, viscous coupling, torsen or something else but can't ever seem to find a straight answer.

Anyone have experience with these or other better suggestions around 25k?

I will agree that most CuteUte awd is more marketing hype that the reality of functionality.
I have nothing else to add and no direct experience other than very happy with my old Saturn Vue 4cyl w/ fwd and a manual trans riding on genuine winter, General ArticMax tires.

http://jalopnik.com/lets-settle-the-winter-tires-vs-all-wheel-drive-debat-1462180324

You don't need AWD. but all the auto manufacturers want you to think you do.

My guess is that in most of these cute utes all diffs are mechanically open. It is really easy to make the ABS system (which already has control of braking force at each individual wheel) just slow the one wheel that is rotating faster than the others. Done correctly, it can actually give you better performance than a mechanical limited slip device, because of the inherent variability and response speed of the brakes. Only problem is you tend to beat the crap out of brakes on the track.

Tracker or Sidekick. Honest to God 4X4. With a decent set of tires it will go almost anywhere.

It seems to me that the Jeeps (rightly so) probably have the most capable CUV AWD systems. The renegade also has nifty removable roof panels for a more "Jeep-like" driving experience.

Four Wheeler of the Year Comparison Test

...but, I'll also concede that the idea here is to buy something that instills confidence in your wife so buy from the company who's marketing hype she believes the most. Or, buy the Subaru or Jeep Wrangler.

If you want to take a zero off of your price range, a first gen RAV4 would be about perfect. I have no experience with the later ones in your price range with the extra zero, but for a while, I think the RAV4 with the V6 at like 260+HP was the fastest vehicle Toyota sold.

The problem (more often than not) with small SUVs in snow and ice isn't their AWD system but rather their shortish wheelbase and high center of gravity. Many years ago I had a lifted Wrangler and it was positively dangerous in snow, constantly trying to spin out when one side or the other would catch resistance from uneven surfaces. Because of this, I usually recommend an AWD wagon over the equivalent sport cute. Outback>Forrester for instance, AWD Passat>Tiguan, etc.

super handling Acura

Robbie wrote: You don't need AWD. but all the auto manufacturers want you to think you do.

I have an AWD car, a BMW 325ix. I agree that 95% of the time all wheel drive isn't needed, but it sure is nice to have for that last 5%.

Dr. Hess wrote: ...but for a while, I think the RAV4 with the V6 at like 260+HP was the fastest vehicle Toyota sold.

In the Sport trim it also handles surprisingly well.

CX-5, Forester, RAV4, HRV are your best choices. If you want something smaller, Buick Encore or Outlander Sport might be looking into.

If you want something fun to drive, Mazda 5 with some snow tires.

how much are the BMW IXs going for these days? Also, how about a Volvo Cross Country?

stuart in mn wrote:

Robbie wrote: You don't need AWD. but all the auto manufacturers want you to think you do.

I have an AWD car, a BMW 325ix. I agree that 95% of the time all wheel drive isn't needed, but it sure is nice to have for that last 5%.

my 325ix was hands-down god-like in the the snow. I have never driven any other car (AWD or not) that handled snow like that thing did. dunno what they did, but it worked.

Cool car, but probably not a fair comparison to an AWD cute ute.

I agree 99% of the time AWD is not needed. And so far her Taurus has gotten through. However the job requires her to be sent out and fix things often because of E36 M3 weather. Power goes out and breakers for a -80 tripped when the generator went on? She's gotta go in and reset them. Snowstorm shuts down the state for a weekend? Lab animals still need to be fed and cleaned. You gotta do what you gotta do.

If my wife can get a car she likes why the hell would I stop her? I just want to know if it's worth the premium on some of these for the AWD or if it's just a joke and we shouldnt think of it as a plus.

I've noticed that all new AWD systems seem to be traction control based. I had an x-type with a viscous coupling in the center diff and it was loads of fun in the snow. Traction control based ones were useless from what I hear.

Doesn't have to be a ute, the golf sportwagen was our top pick, but then it became "well if these come with AWD, is it worth it?". She liked how my xtype drove in the snow, so it's not like her assessment is baseless. Being "fun" is probably more important than all weather prowess. She likes driving things that aren't boring and were not trekking across open tundra.

I saw a video of one of the jeep renegade trailhawks offroad and it seemed pretty capable. As long as you don't mind paying a premium for what is basically a lifted AWD Fiat 500. I'd look into it. Many of the small utes the awd system works only to 10mph so keep an eye it for those kind of marketing shenanigans.

If she likes how your Xtype drove in the snow, what about a Subaru Legacy, Buick Regal or Lacrosse (both come in awd) or Infiniti G35/37x Sedan or Coupe?

I think that is starting to venture too far out of the cheap new car with a hatch territory.

The Honda RT4WD is about the worst. Subaru and Jeep are probably best from the testing I've seen.

If I had $25,000, had to have a brand new wagon/hatch, decent MPGs, and good AWD, I would have a hard time buying anything other than a Forester.

mad_machine wrote: how much are the BMW IXs going for these days? Also, how about a Volvo Cross Country?

I've been ogling a 2011 Ix with 50k on it. It's sitting at a tick under 20k

bastomatic wrote: The Honda RT4WD is about the worst. Subaru and Jeep are probably best from the testing I've seen. If I had $25,000, had to have a brand new wagon/hatch, decent MPGs, and good AWD, I would have a hard time buying anything other than a Forester.

I heard the Honda and the fiat are pretty disappointing. That is what I'm trying to avoid.

I guess I should have phrased my question better: Assuming you are moving from a particular manufacturers hatch to ute for the purpose of gaining AWD, do the systems work well enough to reasonably justify that move?

paranoid_android74 wrote:

mad_machine wrote: how much are the BMW IXs going for these days? Also, how about a Volvo Cross Country?

I've been ogling a 2011 Ix with 50k on it. It's sitting at a tick under 20k

That's an xi. The ix was the e30 version from 1988-1991.

e30 325ix prices are all over the place, from a couple grand for a ratty one all the way up to $14k or so for mint, low mileage cars. Prior to the car I have now I had another 325ix that got totaled out in a collision in 2013, it was valued at $6k.

If your wife HAS to be there and there are no "IF, ands, or buts" about it, and if you cannot afford to have her unemployed, I would highly advise not going cheap. If you want that old school, real AWD, buy an old suburban. If you want a jelly bean that has a "chance" of making it there in a blizzard, buy a subie. If it doesn't matter, then buy a cute ute.

In AWD the transfer case MUST have a differential.

Many of the newer utes are FWD, when they spin a computer engages the rears and they have no low range.