My mother has a 2019 Outback. It totally sucks to drive, numb controls and meh ergonomics.
My mother has a 2019 Outback. It totally sucks to drive, numb controls and meh ergonomics.
Chevy SS . I've never had kid chairs in my dad's but it's got a good size backseat I know that the preliminaries of being a parent are possible back there.
In reply to MTechnically (Forum Supporter) :
Stop trying to make one car do 2 jobs. It will either be a good family car or a good race car but never both.
It doesn't matter how much you spend for a race car, next year there will be faster race cars. Family cars just become useful transportation devices.
The "Trick" is to find something that you just love and hang on to it.
Vintage car? Formula car? Indy 500 car? Drag racer, Chump/LeMons car, auto cross, show car, Hot Rod, replicar. NASCAR,
Not what someone tells you or sells you but something you really want for what it does for you. There will always be a class / Place to race it.
But with Children you simply cannot keep chasing Faster / Better/ more exclusive. Even if your life goes exactly according to your schedule your children will and should have greater priority. They will have needs. Often something beyond your ability.
The nice thing about a race car, particularly a cheap race car is you can always put it away and forget about it. If it's cheap enough you are never tempted to sell it, the few dollars you'll get won't be enough to forego your dreams. Buy something that has depreciated as much as it's going to. Enough so selling it will never make sense. If it sits for a while it won't be any more obsolete but it might go up. If you pick right it might go up a lot .
In my early 20's I could have picked up Ferrari's that were just old race cars for modest used car money.
In my 40's &50's that switched to Jaguars. that today would earn me 2&3 times their cost and restoration costs.
Today there are plenty of cars available for 3 figures that realistically will sell for 6 figures 20 years from now.
Look there. What excites you. Or would excite you if it was converted into a tribute car.
What you pick up may need work to race it or you may need to spend some money before it represents your goal. That's the smart move about now. When you have excess funds or as your family budget allows you, buy some of that stuff. Spend a few bucks. You'll feel better if you do it over time.
pilotbraden said:
+1 on that
Also maybe the Lexus ISF or one of the cool V8 Cadillacs. The Infinit and Lexus and Cadillacs and Mazdas are what I'd be loking at
In reply to amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) :
The SS is an interesting option, but I'm not quite sure they are in my price range yet. They've also been called Chevrolet's interpretation of the E39 M5, and, while that's absolutely not a bad thing, I think I would just keep the M5 if that was the only thing I was looking at.
I do need to revisit the IS and particularly the GS350. I came close to getting one before the M5, but I couldn't pass up on one of my dream cars. CTS-V also has the problem of not being for sale in my area. Two cars within 100 miles, one second generation coupe and an '04 with 150k on the ODO.
In reply to Loweguy5 (Forum Supporter) :
Something to consider, I'm sure it's a pretty nice car but I worry it might be a little too close to the GTI experience. That car did not keep my interest, and I really want to find something I'll hold on to for at least 5 years.
MTechnically (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to John Welsh (Forum Supporter) :
I've actually considered the Model 3. But I'm leary about them as well. Things I have seen about build quality really concern me, there aren't many chargers where I live, and I'm not willing to give up a garage space for and installed charger.
If it helps, the quality control seems to have marched onto the Y.
As for the charge port, you can still use any NEMA 14-50 for the car and camper/RV parks are offering the same for charge access.
MTechnically (Forum Supporter) said:In reply to amg_rx7 (Forum Supporter) :
The SS is an interesting option, but I'm not quite sure they are in my price range yet. They've also been called Chevrolet's interpretation of the E39 M5, and, while that's absolutely not a bad thing, I think I would just keep the M5 if that was the only thing I was looking at.
I do need to revisit the IS and particularly the GS350. I came close to getting one before the M5, but I couldn't pass up on one of my dream cars. CTS-V also has the problem of not being for sale in my area. Two cars within 100 miles, one second generation coupe and an '04 with 150k on the ODO.
The SS was on my radar. Loved it on the test drive. The interior is garbage. The quality and crass fake chrome stuff is like from 1993 and feels like its put together by marijuana smoking chrylser employees. Someone who drives a M5, and shopping Land Cruisers, will never be satisfied by the SS. I really tried, it just didn't work for me. Couldn't convince myself to get over the quality of the interior. Space is fantastic.
The IS-F is a great car. We looked at that. The model looks dated and the rear seat room was very little. I love the motor. My wife has a RC-F, and hopefully we can sell for a CPO GS-F in a year or two.
In reply to mr2s2000elise :
I will fully admit to being picky, some may call it snobbish, when it comes to interior quality on my daily drivers. I live in a pretty sprawled out area, and because of that most of my trips are longer. Whenever I go back to commuting into work, I will be spending at least 2-3 hours in my car a day. I want to have something that will be a nice place to be and still somewhat fun to drive.
I have heard that the IS is pretty cramped, but I will look into the GS350 again, but I'd rather end up with a wagon over a sedan.
In reply to MTechnically (Forum Supporter) :
Agree with you 100%. Quality matters to me. I have done the song and dance (car #53 now), about "soul" and "fun cars" and done too much sacrifice and compromise in life. 3 years ago I decided, I have had it with subpar quality, and Tier 3 manufacturers. I don't spend my money at those manufacturers any more. If a top quality manufacturer doesn't make what I need, I just don't buy. Life is too short for compromises....
So I've gone through a very similar thought exercise to this as I also have two minions-of-chaos to cart to daycare and back. Like you I really want a wagon with some sizzle. I gave up on that being a requirement though. Just too many other good options out there to get hung up on having a little extra cargo room. I also care quite a bit about having a manual transmission, which is all but impossible to find in a late model rwd/awd wagon outside of a CTS-V (love it, can't afford it). Le sigh.
Right now I already have the closest thing to the criteria above - 2011 WRX hatch-wagon-thingy. I think it's smaller than what you're looking for, but my kids are already in front-facing seats so it's doable for me at 5'11" tall. I did use it during rear-facing era though with less seat travel.
When it's time to replace the only things that are attractive and come with a stickshift are another WRX, Focus RS, or 335 sedan. If I can get over rowing-my-own there's a lot of other options including the Giulia Ti. I'm not sure any of those have the rear legroom you're looking for though.
Understood, I think with your history of cars there'll be few modem cars that you'll actually want to keep for 5 years.
You might have to blow your budget for a Civic type-r or used macan S. I know you said no SUVs but most manufactures don't make a sporty wagon in the size you want and it's a very competent vehicle. Another car that fits your wants would be a Kia stinger (it's a large fastback but I doubt it'll keep your heart for 5 years though)
What about an E61 wagon and paying someone to maintain it? Right tool might just be buying your free time back to enjoy family and the car.
In reply to Matt B (Forum Supporter) :
I think we are pretty much on the same page here. I probably have a bit of an irrational desire for a wagon. Lots more choices if I'm more willing to pick up a sedan, but I like the wagon style and like that you don't see them everywhere in the US.
I already have two project cars, both of them stick, so my wife reasonably requested that I go for something automatic this time around. Only time will tell if that will be the downfall of this future purchase.
In reply to lnlds :
I'm in the camp of people that really can't except the styling of the new Type R. I had an S2000 out of college, so there part of it that appeals, but it's looks are just a non starter. Macan S is something I looked at, but they are barely in the price range of what I want to spend. I put the Outback 3.6R on the list because you can get a nice one well under $20K, $25K is the upper limit so I still have enough fun money to get my projects done or out on track at some point.
E61's are nice, but I really don't know if I'm willing to deal with maintaining one if things went south. I also already have a 5 series wagon for one of my projects.
I don't know if I'd call it an irrational desire per-se. I mean, I want one too and I'm like... a slightly emotional vulcan compared to most.
As far as the transmission, that makes more sense than me insisting on a manual in Atlanta rush hour traffic. All I'm saying, if you're open to a automatic sedan than the world is your oyster.
Speaking of, you know what car I never thought I'd want? A frickin Dodge Charger. V8 only. I had a rental RT for an overnight business trip to Birmingham and back and I absolutely loved it. Even the "lowly" 370hp V8 was a total revelation. Totally different kind of fun than my personal cars. It was comfortable for hours on the interstate, big back seat, huge trunk, but the fun pedal was downright rowdy and surprisingly loud for a stock exhaust. I was actually sad turning it back in. Come the revolution - I guess I'm secretly one of those Charger douches.
My mom has had a 2011 Outback 3.6R Limited since new, it's got about 70k miles now. I also just had a 2020 Legacy Limited in for review a month or so back. The newer Legacy/Outback have evolved from her 2011 but they're largely similar and the 3.6 hasn't really changed (no longer available for 2020 but was in 'em for a long while).
My parents love the Outback. It's good on road trips, comfy and can truly seat four 6'+ adults. The sound system is good. Subaru infotainment generally sucks, hers is awful and the newer cars got something that's a bit better. Even the 2020 Starlink with 12" screen was just okay. Fuel economy on the 3.6 is not going to stun you but it's fine.
Really, the whole car is fine. I don't particularly enjoy it. Hers has been reliable and only needed oil/brakes/tires so far. It's developing a small shudder when accelerating from a stop with the wheel turned. Probably time for new diff fluid in all three of 'em.
All that said, you're on the GRM forums. You really want to go from an E39 M5 to... an Outback? Do something like a Mercedes or Volvo wagon, throw an exhaust on it, maybe some light suspension tweaks, and enjoy your drive.
I am not a Subaru guy but here is my impression...
Over the years, the Legacy Outback has grown significantly in size. The Outback seems to have morphed from being a lifted wagon to a wagon-ized SUV. It really seems to me that what once was the Subaru Tribeca has been rebadeged and reintroduced as the current Outback.
So, is an older 3.6L Tribeca comparable to a more recent 3.6L Outback?
In reply to Brake_L8 (Forum Supporter) :
Thanks for the quick review. That's more what I was looking for when I first kicked off this thread. The Outback is what I view as the more sensible choice. Basically, a decent appliance that I won't have to worry too much about.
In the back of my mind I know that I can be pretty fickle when it comes to my cars. I love my old E34 wagon so I'm keeping a car that currently doesn't run right and is plagued with rust, and I'm getting rid of what was one of my dream cars in the E39 M5. But the M5 has been a headache since almost day one, and the E34 has mostly been a joy to own. I don't want to totally give up on having an enjoyable daily and that's why the W212, F31 and XC70 are at the top of my list.
The Buick TourX was a good suggestion that I hadn't thought about, but I'm just not sure the desire is there for a GM product that doesn't have a V8. The TSX wagon was also something I hadn't considered, but they are mega hard to find near me.
I know I'd have a lot more choices that would be more logical or offer better value if I'd get a sedan, but wagons just appeal to me a bit more. It doesn't hurt that they also happen to fit double strollers a little easier too.
In reply to MTechnically (Forum Supporter) :
If it makes you feel better on the TourX, it's got the same LTG that GM has been putting in nearly everything since 2014. It's on my short list of replacement vehicles when I decide I want to DD something newer than 20 years old; I'm hoping the next 12 months or so, and the Chevy SS and Buick TourX are my 2 favorites (without having ridden in/driven either).
I've already read of some people dealing with parts issues on the tourX. I don't know if it's common but some guy got rear ended and has been waiting on parts for four months.
superfund said:I've already read of some people dealing with parts issues on the tourX. I don't know if it's common but some guy got rear ended and has been waiting on parts for four months.
That could honestly still be a result of the strike.. Many many parts distribution centers and entire supply chains were thrown off by that. I would bet there are several other vehicles out there facing similar time problems, not that it's something that really seems acceptable though.
Have you thought about a QX50? I'm not talking about the new Murano based one, I'm talking the FM chassis one that existed from 2016-17. 325 HP in a very slightly lifted G37. I'll bet you can even put some G37 paddle shifters on there if you've got a wiring diagram and a little ol' fashioned gumption.
In reply to rothwem :
What can I say other than...yuck. Never been a big fan of the Infinity design language. Something about the way the roof appears to pinch in from the sides and rear of the car really doesn't work for me. 325hp is nice and all, but I want to be able to look at the thing.
Just as a reference point, I think I'd rate the four options I mentioned earlier in this order.
The Outback is last. A little too tall, too upright, but not overly offensive. As modern cars go I think it's not bad at all, especially since it was the cheapest of the bunch when they were new.
Next up is the XC70, the car is overall pretty restrained, classic Volvo, but the proportions of this car are better than the Outback. The biggest thing I notice is that the greenhouse of the Outback looks a bit squished in comparison to the Volvo. I prefer the boxy-ness of the XC70 over the slightly bulbous Outback.
After that would come the F31 3 series. Better looking than all other F30 based cars outside of the M3, imho. More aggressive looking than the XC70, and still a handsome design.
The W212 is very close to the F31 for me. It just looks that bit more upscale, and feels like it will probably age better than the BMW. From looking around, they look excellent as long as they've been equipped with the optional AMG wheels and a non-grey scale color.
I'd rank your four choices in the exact order you've got 'em. I have a few friends with F31 wagons and they really like them a lot. The W212 Mercedes will be larger than the BMW which may be helpful for kiddos. W211/W212 are fairly stout cars from what I know but they won't be as sporty or light on their feet compared to the BMW. That's not necessarily a bad thing unless you want something that holds two kids and feels as close to a Miata as possible.
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